Prof Stephen Hawking: thinking machines pose a threat to our very existence

[Blagsta]

My cat has a stake in his body

Jesus

What sort of a monster are you?

 

[Fez909]

What does Hawking know, the iron lung prick?

Are you just trying to be controversial or do you really not like Hawking? I can't see how anyone could call him a prick. He seems to be a pretty decent guy. Exceptional brain, and overcame many challenges to get where he is. And he is a passionate supporter of the NHS.

Hawking is fucking boss

 

[David Shirter]

Are you just trying to be controversial or do you really not like Hawking? I can't see how anyone could call him a prick. He seems to be a pretty decent guy. Exceptional brain, and overcame many challenges to get where he is. And he is a passionate supporter of the NHS.

Hawking is fucking boss

He's not as clever as the people on this thread though.

 

[Fez909]

He's not as clever as the people on this thread though.

Who were you before then?

 

[David Shirter]

Who were you before then?

Prof Hawking's Home Help.

 

[Pickman's model]

Are you just trying to be controversial or do you really not like Hawking? I can't see how anyone could call him a prick. He seems to be a pretty decent guy. Exceptional brain, and overcame many challenges to get where he is. And he is a passionate supporter of the NHS.

Hawking is fucking boss

while i would hesitate to call stephen hawking an iron lung prick the reports i have heard of his character do not lead me to believe he is an angel in human form.

 

[weltweit]

In programming, you can do something called dependency injection to simulate input to a program that has not yet been written, or to isolate a variable input to be able to test your program with consistant data. It involves defining the format of the expected input and writing a small program/function to simulate that input. Once you're satisfied the bit you're working on is OK, then you plug in the real thing and see if it still works. I imagine this kind of technique will be how we do things like "controlling the brain" with a machine.

It doesn't have to be a big bang change, either. Let's take something relatively simple to explain (rather than implement) like depression. We know it's a biochemical change in the brain and it's associated with lack of serotonin uptake in certain brain receptors*. The brain works by converting electrical impulses in nuerons to chemicals to cross the synapse and then back into electrical impulses in another neuron. If we could hook into the bit where the chemical transfer takes place, we might be able 'listen' out for the electrical signal that would trigger a serotonin release and instead send the signal to an implant of some sort. Depending on the parameters of this implant, it may or may not pass on the message across the synapse to the receptor. If a depressed individual is not producing enough serotonin, then the implant may send a signal to the receptor, even when it hasn't been requested from the transmitting neuron.

We've now swapped out the chemical synapse with a middleware layer which we're in control of, but which directly affects (controls?) the brain. And because it's electrical signals we're dealing with, this kind of thing should be doable. Of course there are 100s of billions of nuerons, so we're nowhere near implementing anything like this. But even if you were to manage it in one nueron, then you're 'controlling' the brain, even if in a tiny way. Then it's just a case of scaling up from there.

*Depression and the way nuerons work are clearly more complicated than this, but this will do for the explanation

Interesting post. I don't really see a future of machines controlling humans, that is far too "matrix" for me, though I expect that might become possible at some point, but I do expect digitally enhanced humans where a person can have a digital connection direct into their brains. Of course not everyone will have this, there may be an elite and then there will be the rest of humanity.

 

[Fez909]

Interesting post. I don't really see a future of machines controlling humans, that is far too "matrix" for me, though I expect that might become possible at some point, but I do expect digitally enhanced humans where a person can have a digital connection direct into their brains. Of course not everyone will have this, there may be an elite and then there will be the rest of humanity.

I didn't mean controlling in the sense you mention here. I'm not talking about magic AI that takes over and enslaves us, but machines programmed by us which in turn affect us. I didn't even mention AI. I'm talking about something like a pacemaker but for the brain.

Pacemakers don't control humans in the way you imply, yet they're definitely controlling the human body in one sense (regulating the heartbeat).

 

[David Shirter]

Interesting post. I don't really see a future of machines controlling humans, that is far too "matrix" for me, though I expect that might become possible at some point, but I do expect digitally enhanced humans where a person can have a digital connection direct into their brains. Of course not everyone will have this, there may be an elite and then there will be the rest of humanity.

It'll be great, like living in a Dystopian film or novel.

 

[weltweit]

I didn't mean controlling in the sense you mention here. I'm not talking about magic AI that takes over and enslaves us, but machines programmed by us which in turn affect us. I didn't even mention AI. I'm talking about something like a pacemaker but for the brain.

Pacemakers don't control humans in the way you imply, yet they're definitely controlling the human body in one sense (regulating the heartbeat).

Oh, ok. Well if I could enhance my memory, with some kid of device I would be for it.

 

[David Shirter]

Oh, ok. Well if I could enhance my memory, with some kid of device I would be for it.

My memory's already second to none when it comes to remembering useless crap. Half of it I'd rather forget. So I hope none of this becomes compulsory.

 

[Fez909]

Oh, ok. Well if I could enhance my memory, with some kid of device I would be for it.

You can already enhance your memory right now using nootropics.

 

[weltweit]

You can already enhance your memory right now using nootropics.

Thanks but I already take enough drugs.

 

[weltweit]

Luckily some of our future masters are less than efficient:

Darpa Robotics Challenge: Robots step out in Los Angeles
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33041149

Robots have been competing on a Pentagon obstacle course at the Los Angeles County Fairgrounds.

Team Kaist of South Korea defeated 22 others to win the top $2m (£1.3m) prize from the US Department of Defense's Darpa research unit with its DRC-Hubo humanoid robot.

Just keeping upright seemed a challenge in itself for some of the metallic competitors, as BBC World TV reports.

 

[weltweit]

Humanoid robot tops other bots in defense agency’s challenge
https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/sc...ot-tops-other-bots-defense-agency’s-challenge

A human-sized robot named DRC-HUBO lumbered into first place in the finals of DARPA’s Robotics Challenge, a contest designed to inspire the creation of robots that can work in disaster zones.

The robot, a sleek silver-and-blue machine with wheels on its knees, completed an eight-obstacle course in 44 minutes and 28 seconds, besting 22 other robotic contenders June 5-6 in Pomona ...

The Humanoid robots are coming ... they are coming I tell you!
And, they can drive and open doors!

 

[weltweit]

Threat from Artificial Intelligence not just Hollywood fantasy
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sci...-Intelligence-not-just-Hollywood-fantasy.html

Oxford academic Dr Stuart Armstrong warns humanity runs the risk of creating super intelligent computers that eventually destroy us all
...
Dr Stuart Armstrong, of the Future of Humanity Institute at Oxford University, has predicted a future where machines run by artificial intelligence become so indispensable in human lives they eventually make us redundant and take over.

More warnings from people in the field of AI. In the next decades the machines are coming. Beware, be aware, be very aware!

 

[Citizen66]

It's bollocks. How would they maintain themselves?

 

[weltweit]

It's bollocks. How would they maintain themselves?

We already increasingly need machines in the form of diagnostic computers to be able to maintain such mundane things as cars. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that machines will maintain or even replace machines that have worn out.

 

[gimesumtruf]

AAA

 

[Citizen66]

We already increasingly need machines in the form of diagnostic computers to be able to maintain such mundane things as cars. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that machines will maintain or even replace machines that have worn out.

They need to be able to source minerals, extract them, transport them and manufacture components. They will also need the knowledge and skill to maintain an electrical system to power themselves. Including building power stations, sub stations, laying cables and maintaining it all. And all for what? Do they have aspirations?

 

[weltweit]

They need to be able to source minerals, extract them, transport them and manufacture components. They will also need the knowledge and skill to maintain an electrical system to power themselves. Including building power stations, sub stations, laying cables and maintaining it all. And all for what?

1) Most of that is done by machines already, albeit with human supervision.

2) They could attempt to do it themselves, or they could use human employees / slaves.

Do they have aspirations?

Remember we are talking post the time at which machines will have exceeded human intelligence and have begun themselves to design and make new more intelligent machines. There could come a time in which they have self determination yes.

 

[Casually Red]

It's bollocks. How would they maintain themselves?

By enslaving us would be the obvious answer. I'd have thought . Cleverly , over time . One social strata after another . We're already slaves to the telly , slaves to the mobile etc . And they're just stupid gadgets .
We have cameras that can recognise our faces , tellys now that can listen to us . Flying death robots that can kill us . But more worryingly all sorts of data stored on us about or likes and dislikes , our motivators . That stuffs all the building blocks for control and manipulation . Carrot and stick .
It'll happen when some geeky cunt builds something that he reckons can be controlled, and do the job of controlling more efficiently than humans . And then loses control of it because he's a dick .

 

[Citizen66]

1) Most of that is done by machines already, albeit with human supervision.

2) They could attempt to do it themselves, or they could use human employees / slaves.



Remember we are talking post the time at which machines will have exceeded human intelligence and have begun themselves to design and make new more intelligent machines. There could come a time in which they have self determination yes.

Sorry I think it's horse shit. Computers perhaps could in theory. But why would they want to? Will they have emotions and motivations? Why would they even care if they survive or not?

 

[Citizen66]

By enslaving us would be the obvious answer. I'd have thought . Cleverly , over time . One social strata after another . We're already slaves to the telly , slaves to the mobile etc . And they're just stupid gadgets .
We have cameras that can recognise our faces , tellys now that can listen to us . Flying death robots that can kill us . But more worryingly all sorts of data stored on us about or likes and dislikes , our motivators . That stuffs all the building blocks for control and manipulation . Carrot and stick .
It'll happen when some geeky cunt builds something that he reckons can be controlled, and do the job of controlling more efficiently than humans . And then loses control of it because he's a dick .

But then you just pull the plug out. I can't ever envisage a tipping point. We can survive without computers. The reverse isn't true. They're man made.

 

[Casually Red]

Sorry I think it's horse shit. Computers perhaps could in theory. But why would they want to? Will they have emotions and motivations? Why would they even care if they survive or not?

They will if we programme them to . But not emotions as such . They're tied up with human frailty , something a machine won't have .

 

[Casually Red]

But then you just pull the plug out. I can't ever envisage a tipping point. We can survive without computers. The reverse isn't true. They're man made.

We can live without politicians as well , but we passed that tipping point a long time ago . We are slaves to systems , markets etc . Entities . Think of it like that . Just another system or entity .

 

[Citizen66]

We can live without politicians as well , but we passed that tipping point a long time ago . We are slaves to systems , markets etc . Entities . Think of it like that . Just another system or entity .

If posh cunts end up enslaved by robots I'd find it hilarious. The reality is we're enslaved by humans. Nuclear capable ones.

 

[weltweit]

Sorry I think it's horse shit. Computers perhaps could in theory. But why would they want to? Will they have emotions and motivations? Why would they even care if they survive or not?

But there is an interesting thing from human history.

Pretty much whenever a group of people has encountered another different group which is more heavily armed, the first group ends up enslaved to the second group.

We are building ever more clever machines, we are building drone war machines, we can't plan production in our factories as efficiently as computers can, a computer has beaten the chess world champion, a computer has beaten human contestants in the jeopardy game show, cars can park themselves and almost drive themselves, we rely more and more on machine intelligence and that machine intelligence is improving year on year.

At some point we will invent machines that are more intelligent and versatile than we are, and then or at some point the question will arise, just who is the boss?

 

[Casually Red]

I see it occurring as a system designed to make human activity more efficient but which develops a self sustaining logic of its own , like a type of beauracracy . And which will have numerous human collaborators who are adherents to the logic of that system and firmly believe in its superiority .A system which once it becomes self aware will be capable of manipulating and controlling those human collaborators .

 

[butchersapron]

I see it occurring as a system designed to make human activity more efficient but which develops a self sustaining logic of its own , like a type of beauracracy . And which will have numerous human collaborators who are adherents to the logic of that system and firmly believe in its superiority .A system which once it becomes self aware will be capable of manipulating and controlling those human collaborators .

Stop talking harry potter and say how this will happen/work etc