Pre-Schools what are they and where do they fall into the education system? (U.K.)

[lopsidedbunny]

Pre-Schools what are they and where do they fall into the education system? As when I was a child I remember going to nursery and then move straight into infants school. I was a 70s child so I am assuming it was all done by the state eduction system at the time. I don't remember seeing pre-schools so where do they fit in? Do they fit in after nursery and in between infants school? Or do Pre-school encompass nursery eduction. In the 70s I do remember my nursery teacher did jack all for me... only my infant teacher saved me. So anyway, any help I would be most happy...

 

[fractionMan]

I went to a nursery before primary school. Lil fraction did the same. He spent either the morning or afternoon at nursery 5 days a week for the year before school, I think. The nursery was attached to a school and very good quality imo.

 

[skyscraper101]

What age do you start?

 

[fractionMan]

3?

 

[trashpony]

My son goes to a pre-school. It goes from 2 1/2 to 5 (although there are very few kids over the age of 4 there) and runs school hours only during term times (which is different from his nursery where it was all year and 8-6). I think they might focus more on preparing for school than a nursery does but it's a bit difficult to get much out of a 3 year old.

 

[Sweet FA]

it's a bit difficult to get much out of a 3 year old.

...apart from snotty cuddles and an increasing sense of frustration as the world appears, against all previous expectation, not to revolve entirely around them.

Nurseries fall under the Early Years Foundation Stage (EYFS) assessment via Developing Matters (click here to see how your child is assessed between 30-50 months).

However did society manage before children were assessed so formally, so early?


Developing Imagination and Imaginative Play:

• Engage in imaginative play and role-play based on own first-hand experiences.
  
• Develop a repertoire of actions by putting a sequence of movements together.
  
• Use available resources to create props to support role-play.
  
• Notice what adults do, imitating what is observed and then doing it spontaneously when the adult is not there.

 

[lopsidedbunny]

ta for the info' another thing missing from above is a joy of changing nappies... do pre-schools provides the nappies or do the parents bring them? I know nothing above pre school so that's why I'm asking is it expensive to attend pre schools?

 

[trashpony]

ta for the info' another thing missing from above is a joy of changing nappies... do pre-schools provides the nappies or do the parents bring them? I know nothing above pre school so that's why I'm asking is it expensive to attend pre schools?

I've always had to provide them (but my son hasn't been in nappies since he started pre-school but can't imagine that would be different to any other childcarer). I also have to provide a packed lunch for him. I pay £4/hour (but as he's 3 he's eligible for 15 hours free a week anyway - for the time being)

I know Sweet FA - fucking stupid isn't it? I just want him to have fun

 

[_angel_]

They vary from area to area. In Oxford (this was pre- Sure Start) there did not exist any council nurseries when I was there, so we used a pre school that was parent led and run and they were really good with James (figured out he was autistic waaay before I did). Then I moved to Leeds and was shocked to find preschools/playgroups were professionally run and didn't want parents to stay. (We all took it in turns to stay and help in Oxford). Also, they refused to accept any child still in nappies (A bit tough for the 3-4 year olds) so James couldn't go to one anyway!!!
I imagine parent led playgroups are probably a thing of the past now everyone has to be CRB'ed.

 

[Thora]

I think generally there are:

Day nurseries - normally private though some state (Sure Start/Children's centre nurseries) that provide childcare full time for babies- school age.
Nursery schools/classes - often attached to a primary school, providing sessional care/education for 3-5 year olds in the year before full time school
Pre-schools - normally private I think? Sessional care/education for children 2.5-5
Playgroups - often run by charitable groups or churches, usually short hours of 2-3 a day for children 2.5-5. Usually not within Ofsted's remit.

 

[Thora]

Lots of pre-schools and playgroups won't change nappies though (although they can no longer refuse to accept children in nappies due to the Disability Discrimation Act) - some places will call parents in to change a pooey nappy.

 

[_angel_]

Lots of pre-schools and playgroups won't change nappies though (although they can no longer refuse to accept children in nappies due to the Disability Discrimation Act) - some places will call parents in to change a pooey nappy.

That's just weird.
The odd thing about the Leeds preschool/ playgroup was I was prepared to stay with James and do all the nappy changing/ extra supervision but they wouldn't let me.
Calling in parents just to do a nappy is just odd - you may as well just stay with them.

 

[Thora]

That's just weird.
The odd thing about the Leeds preschool/ playgroup was I was prepared to stay with James and do all the nappy changing/ extra supervision but they wouldn't let me.
Calling in parents just to do a nappy is just odd - you may as well just stay with them.

I guess they want to discourage non-toilet trained children from attending though, now that they legally can't have an admissions policy about toilet training. Though apparently they often will deal with child who have "accidents" so I guess parents could just send their nappy wearing child without a nappy and hope for the best!

 

[nagapie]

I think generally there are:

Day nurseries - normally private though some state (Sure Start/Children's centre nurseries) that provide childcare full time for babies- school age.
Nursery schools/classes - often attached to a primary school, providing sessional care/education for 3-5 year olds in the year before full time school
Pre-schools - normally private I think? Sessional care/education for children 2.5-5
Playgroups - often run by charitable groups or churches, usually short hours of 2-3 a day for children 2.5-5. Usually not within Ofsted's remit.

There is a children's centre with a down the road from me that only takes children from 3 years old into its nursery. I don't understand this, surely that means the children are hardly with them until going to school? What age do children start school in this country?

 

[Thora]

There is a children's centre with a down the road from me that only takes children from 3 years old into its nursery. I don't understand this, surely that means the children are hardly with them until going to school? What age do children start school in this country?

So it's more of a nursery class/nursery school than a daycare nursery - children generally spend a year in a nursery class (depending on when their birthday is) as they qualify for a free nursery place the term after their 3rd birthday until they start school the September after their 4th birthday.

School isn't actually compulsory til the term after their 5th birthday, but many schools now only accept children in September - when I was a child it was much more common for summer born children to start school in the 2nd or even 3rd term, but my son being an August birthday will probably have to start aged 4 years 3 weeks.

ETA - of course school isn't compulsory in this country, education is.

 

[trashpony]

There is a children's centre with a down the road from me that only takes children from 3 years old into its nursery. I don't understand this, surely that means the children are hardly with them until going to school? What age do children start school in this country?

Really depends on their birthday - the foal won't start school until he's 4 1/2. A lot of places don't take kids until they're 3 because they're usually dry by then and also they get paid by the council for a lot of the hours they provide (not all parents are that good at paying on time from what I've seen)

 

[nagapie]

Mine's December born so I guess he'll be nearly 5 when he starts school so there is some point in a place like that. Otherwise why would you send such a small child just for a year, seems unsettling for nothing.

 

[Thora]

Mine's December born so I guess he'll be nearly 5 when he starts school so there is some point in a place like that. Otherwise why would you send such a small child just for a year, seems unsettling for nothing.

Well I suppose for a 3 year old a year is a long time! I would have thought a lot of children don't start nursery until the year before school.

 

[trashpony]

Mine's December born so I guess he'll be nearly 5 when he starts school so there is some point in a place like that. Otherwise why would you send such a small child just for a year, seems unsettling for nothing.

A year is ages in a 3 year old's life. And my boy absolutely loves going to pre-school (now he's got used to it ). He used to love nursery before we moved too. He got very bored at the childminders once he'd turned three. And I'm not the sort of mother who can stay home all day - my patience is wearing very thin on day three of half term. Christ knows what the summer holidays are going to be like

 

[Saffy]

ta for the info' another thing missing from above is a joy of changing nappies... do pre-schools provides the nappies or do the parents bring them? I know nothing above pre school so that's why I'm asking is it expensive to attend pre schools?

I work in one and we do change bums, the children normally bring some nappies/wipes/change of clothes in a back pack. We help and support toilet training, we work within the EYFS and are OFSTED inspected. Preschool is lovely, if you get a good one. We run 3 hour sessions at £10 and an optional lunch club where they bring a lunch box and stay for an extra hour for a quid. We ask the parents to bring a piece of fruit each week which we share at snack and offer water or milk.
We can accept children from 2 - 5 years of age and tend to start them around 2 years and 9 months. The term after they're 3 they should be eligible for funding for 15 hours a week.
Oh and I forgot to say, we have lots and lots of fun! I have 9 children I am a key worker for and I'm very fond of them all and I think I'm quite a special person to them as well.

 

[nagapie]

A year is ages in a 3 year old's life. And my boy absolutely loves going to pre-school (now he's got used to it ). He used to love nursery before we moved too. He got very bored at the childminders once he'd turned three. And I'm not the sort of mother who can stay home all day - my patience is wearing very thin on day three of half term. Christ knows what the summer holidays are going to be like

I don't really know anything about 3 year olds yet but I couldn't imagine moving my son from his childminder just for one year of nursery. I suppose he could get bored but she has a 5 year old and a 4 year old and they don't seem bored, the 5 year old has just started school and the 4 year old makes use of her 15hrs of free nursery a week. Another thing I don't understand is why the nurseries around me make you take your 15hrs in slots so that they can't be used as full days and hence help parents save on childcare expenses, surely that's part of the point?

 

[trashpony]

Oh and I forgot to say, we have lots and lots of fun! I have 9 children I am a key worker for and I'm very fond of them all and I think I'm quite a special person to them as well.

Oh you are. The foal wants all of them to come to his birthday party next month I am going to have to make up some excuse as I'm sure they have better things to do on their Saturdays

ETA: nagapie - cross-posted. I guess it depends on the child and the age of the other children. The foal was the eldest by a long way and really missed my childminder's grandson when he started school. It was hard because both his mates started school at the same time so he felt very much that he didn't want to be left behind and be a 'baby' in his view, even though his childminder had her grandson after school most days.

On the hours front, that's crap. He went a full day to a nursery (8-6) for free when we were in London and now I just leave him whatever hours suit me - sometimes all day, sometimes mornings only, I just make sure it adds up to 15 hours a week

 

[Thora]

I don't really know anything about 3 year olds yet but I couldn't imagine moving my son from his childminder just for one year of nursery. I suppose he could get bored but she has a 5 year old and a 4 year old and they don't seem bored, the 5 year old has just started school and the 4 year old makes use of her 15hrs of free nursery a week. Another thing I don't understand is why the nurseries around me make you take your 15hrs in slots so that they can't be used as full days and hence help parents save on childcare expenses, surely that's part of the point?

Nursery schools for children 3+ are likely just mornings or school hours at most though, so parents would still use childminders for before and after if they work. The funded places aren't really intended as childcare either - most places do them as three hour sessions. Actually the Children's Centre near me runs there nursery class as two classes doing 2.5 days each, so one doing Monday and Tuesday 9-3 and Wed 9-12, and one doing Wed afternoon and all day Thurs and Fri.

 

[nagapie]

Nursery schools for children 3+ are likely just mornings or school hours at most though, so parents would still use childminders for before and after if they work. The funded places aren't really intended as childcare either - most places do them as three hour sessions. Actually the Children's Centre near me runs there nursery class as two classes doing 2.5 days each, so one doing Monday and Tuesday 9-3 and Wed 9-12, and one doing Wed afternoon and all day Thurs and Fri.

2.5 days a week is better than a few hours every morning. I know it's not supposed to be instead of paid childcare but it would certainly help. And I had heard that nurseries in other parts of London didn't split it up like that, as evidenced by trashpony.

 

[trashpony]

2.5 days a week is better than a few hours every morning. I know it's not supposed to be instead of paid childcare but it would certainly help. And I had heard that nurseries in other parts of London didn't split it up like that, as evidenced by trashpony.

Yep - I used my hours to cut down on my childminder so he went one full day to a day nursery and the other four to his childminder. Saved me over £200 a month (plus his childminder didn't do collecting/dropping off so a couple of mornings would have been useless to me)

 

[_angel_]

So it's more of a nursery class/nursery school than a daycare nursery - children generally spend a year in a nursery class (depending on when their birthday is) as they qualify for a free nursery place the term after their 3rd birthday until they start school the September after their 4th birthday.

School isn't actually compulsory til the term after their 5th birthday, but many schools now only accept children in September - when I was a child it was much more common for summer born children to start school in the 2nd or even 3rd term, but my son being an August birthday will probably have to start aged 4 years 3 weeks.

ETA - of course school isn't compulsory in this country, education is.

Oh wow that is young. I remember this with James, but it's different in special schools, so he went into nursery (within the special school) for that year. The idea that he, especially would have been ready to join in a mainstream school class is just weird. Some kids are ready for it then, others aren't. He was physically unable to sit still in a classroom environment at that age , and I don't think it was solely his autism either, a lot of kids aren't (esp boys). I am actually really worried about how all this works for mainstream kids, as I have no experience at all. In some ways Dara is going to be like another first child!

 

[Thora]

Oh wow that is young. I remember this with James, but it's different in special schools, so he went into nursery (within the special school) for that year. The idea that he, especially would have been ready to join in a mainstream school class is just weird. Some kids are ready for it then, others aren't. He was physically unable to sit still in a classroom environment at that age , and I don't think it was solely his autism either, a lot of kids aren't (esp boys). I am actually really worried about how all this works for mainstream kids, as I have no experience at all. In some ways Dara is going to be like another first child!

Totally agree - my brother is also August born but my mum kept him at home til the April term, so he was 4 years 8 months but just did a term in Reception. Lots of schools don't seem to let you do that anymore though, especially in Bristol where there's a shortage of school places. Theo will either go into Reception at just 4, or I could start him a year later at just 5 but he'd have to go straight into Year 1.

 

[weepiper]

So it's more of a nursery class/nursery school than a daycare nursery - children generally spend a year in a nursery class (depending on when their birthday is) as they qualify for a free nursery place the term after their 3rd birthday until they start school the September after their 4th birthday.

School isn't actually compulsory til the term after their 5th birthday, but many schools now only accept children in September - when I was a child it was much more common for summer born children to start school in the 2nd or even 3rd term, but my son being an August birthday will probably have to start aged 4 years 3 weeks.

ETA - of course school isn't compulsory in this country, education is.

that seems really sad to me 4 seems so young for actual school. Because the cut-off's different in Scotland (they use the end of February here) my eldest daughter's birthday is the 19th of August and she didn't start school until her 5th birthday (actually ON her birthday was her first day!). Some of the class will have been 5 and a half when they started (the ones born in March-April)

 

[trashpony]

I've never understood why they don't make the cut off in June so that children will at least be 4.3 when they start. August seems a bit mad to me. I deliberately planned my conception so that the foal would be at least 4.6 when he started school (there is the odd advantage to becoming a parent in the way I did)

 

[weepiper]

oh and up here kids can spend two full years in state-funded pre-school nursery (2.5 hours a day 5 days a week) depending on where their birthdays fall (my daughter had this)