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Popes road car park to become temporary Ice Rink

from officers report.

Following the neighbourhood consultations, at the time of writing a total of
284 responses have been received from local residents objecting to the
application (of which 30 are a standard circulated letter - see below). There
have been 12 letters of support and 1 comment received.


For an planning application to get this many objections is a lot.
 
Excerpt from comments on application by Save Skating in Streatham

Save Skating in Streatham represent the following groups, teams, clubs and
Ice Skating users:

Skaters 4 The Hub
Streatham Chiefs Hockey team
London Bulldogs Hockey team
Werewolves of London Special Needs Hockey team
Warriors under 10’s Hockey team
Mini Braves under 12’s Hockey team
Braves Under 14’s Hockey team
Scorpions Under 16’s Hockey team
Girls under 16’s Hockey team
Women’s Storm Division 1 Girls B Hockey team
Women’s Storm Premier Girls A Hockey team
Beginners girls Hockey team
Figure Skaters
Ice Dance Skaters including Elite Skaters
Pro Instructors
Sound Studio
Night Club
Skate Shop
The Two Thousand general public who have signed our petitions

Background to the Application

Continuity of Ice provision within the section 106 requires the existing ice rink be open throughout until the new Ieisure Centre is built and operational, only then can the existing ice rink be closed and demolished. This does not infer that an ice rink can be opened elsewhere i.e. completely removed from the current site. The Mayor of London was clear in his conditions to keep the existing rink open back in December 2004, as were GOL in March 2005.

It is not evident that the scheme is more easily delivered in terms of construction and financial feasibility (if Streatham site is cleared and ice rink "temporarily" moved off site), nor is the extent of the impact of the recession on Tesco. Year on year turnover and profits have consistently
increased, with the first 6 months of 2010 alone showing a profit of £1.6bn, an increase of over 9% on the previous year. Tesco can plead the recession has impacted them but we do not accept this. Breaking the section 106 agreement just for financial reasons, especially as Tesco’s have already been given approval to increase the floor space to 60,000 square feet (an increase of 56%), means this additional potential increase in turnover will more than offset the costs of keeping their promise to build the Leisure Centre first on the Streatham Hub site.

We do not accept that this has speeded up the process. We believe this has
slowed down the project by well over a year whilst needless investigations have spent time and wasted money looking for alternatives that just don’t exist. Had Tesco started the Leisure Centre project back in early 2009 it would be nearing completion by now.
 
from Save Skating in Streatham.

This bit shows that Transport assessment is needed. Officers report states that it unnecessary as Brixton as suitable (in there eyes) transport links. I find this unbelieveable. The Council ( sorry I mean Tescos:rolleyes:) are proposing a major new events based building.

Officers also admit that whilst there will be areas to pick up and let off passengers on minibuses and coaches there is no provision at Popes road for any coaches to stay there until end of matches. Therefore coaches will have to park elsewhere. The officers give no idea of where.

Here is excerpt:

A transport assessment is required to explain how a potential 100 cars in the busy times can be accommodated in the Popes Road area without causing further serious congestion problems. For example we have repeatedly advised officers that the Werewolves of London special needs ice hockey team have their training on a Saturday afternoon from 3pm till 7pm. There are 65 disabled children with a wide spectrum of disabilities and the provision of 2 disabled bays is clearly unacceptable for their purposes. These children cannot be dropped off and left while parents, carers or volunteers try to find parking offsite. Distance matters greatly to these players and their attendance would be during the busiest time of the week for Brixton Market. The Werewolves of London are a perfect example of the Big Society where there are many volunteer helpers assisting these special needs children. The club will fold if adequate provision of parking next to the rink is not available. In addition, the parking provision for the traders is
almost half of what they currently have for vans, 25 spaces instead of 42, this will put these 17 vans onto the surrounding streets and add to the conflict for parking spaces further, they will also have much further to carry their goods to and from their shops or stalls.
 
Noise pollution. When people commented on the application there had been no thorough analysis of noise problems for nearby residents. This was due to , officers say, that the Popes rd car park is a dangerous structure , and people were not allowed on site to test for noise.:rolleyes:

Officers now say there should not be noise problems. Or in there analysis not above "ambient" noise levels. Noise levels are related to average background noise levels for an area.

Trouble is , from personal experience, once something is built and there are problems they never get sorted out. Officers do not have to live with it.

from Save Skating in Streatham:

Are there any adverse Impacts of noise pollution minimised?

We are concerned that the applicant was not allowed access to the car park to carry out these studies due to health and safety reasons, and that a full
submission will only follow after this submission, We are not convinced a fair assessment of the dangerous structure has been carried out and argue this
report should be made public and a further assessment urgently carried out. We do not wish to be in conflict with the local residents over noise if this has not been resolved. Skaters will be arriving and leaving 7 days a week from 6am till 2am and they should not be put in a potential situation of conflict with residents and traders in Brixton. The noise from the ice rinks external plant area is likely to be intrusive particularly at night when ambient background noise is at its lowest. The survey identified as needing to be carried out separately has yet to be done and we are concerned that the external plant will disturb neighbours in close proximity at residential accommodation in Wincheap Court and Westgate Court on Canterbury Crescent. We are not satisfied that attenuation, enclosures or screening will control this noise.
 
The officers report to the committee states that Kate Hoey MP endorses the objections raised by local groups and Brixton residents and re-affirms that the applicant should honour its original obligations. (that is original Section 106 agreement).

Chuka MP for Streatham is not mentioned in report. However he has statement on his website:

http://www.chuka.org.uk/2010/09/streatham-hub-popes-road-temporary-ice-provision/

Here is excerpt:


Firstly, I should state that, as the Member of Parliament for Streatham, I have no legal power to affect this situation nor am I a party or signatory to any of the agreements between Tesco and the Council – it would be misleading for me to claim otherwise. My role – as an advocate for the area – is to ensure that as many of the voices and concerns of the community as possible are heard when decisions are made.

Secondly, there are a range of stakeholders with an interest in this development but – as the history of the project has demonstrated – those interests are not necessarily aligned and, even within the different groups concerned, there is a diversity of views too; I know this because I have spent much time consulting with all of them. For example, some ice rink user groups are happy to accept Pope’s Road as a temporary solution; others are not. Unfortunately this is not a project that will complete to the satisfaction of all involved – a degree of compromise on everyone’s part will be required.

That said, all are agreed on the principle that we all want to see the Streatham Hub completed as soon as possible, so that we can benefit from the fantastic leisure provision which it will provide, employment opportunities and new homes. My priority has always been to see the project completed as quickly as possible with this aim in mind whilst ensuring that, at the very least, there is ice provision for the current users of the ice rink in the interim.

Thirdly, the original s106 Agreement – agreed in 2007 – will be varied by Deed of Variation (if it has not been already) to allow for the revised 2010 plans to proceed. This is because Tesco would not agree to develop the Hub on the basis agreed in 2007, citing current economic conditions and commercial viability. I voiced some scepticism of their arguments in this regard given its pre-tax profits increased during the recession but their position remains unchanged. It is for this reason that Tesco paying for temporary provision pending completion of the scheme was agreed upon this year. There has always been a possibility that, should Tesco not deem the scheme commercially viable, they would walk away from the Hub project altogether leaving the future of ice skating in Streatham in peril – thankfully we did not reach this point. So whilst I have great sympathy with the SSS campaign objective to enforce the original s106 Agreement, I do not see how this can be done given what has come to pass and Tesco’s position. A lot has happened since the original 2007 agreement was concluded and I do not think we can wind the clock back (so to speak).

However, this does not mean that I am entirely happy with the Pope’s Road solution that has been proposed as things stand. It is vital that the concerns raised in relation to parking, community safety, spectator accommodation and transport are addressed ahead of the erection of the temporary provision. I understand that ice skating user groups met with Council officers yesterday and that progress towards the resolution of some of these issues has progressed.

Between now and the construction of the temporary provision at the end of next year, I will do all I can to demand that these issues are resolved. I met with Council officers and cabinet members during the summer with this is mind and I have written to Council officers for an update on progress in this regard which I will publish on this website in due course. I have also spoken with my colleague, Tessa Jowell MP, in relation to the concerns raised by the Market Traders Association of Brixton Market which is located in her constituency.

Finally, I am aware that the user groups of Streatham Swimming Pool feel that their concerns in relation to swimming provision in the vicinity have been overlooked somewhat given the focus on the ice rink. I was a frequent user of the pool myself as a child as I often competed there as a competitive swimmer. It is totally unsatisfactory that my constituents have been having to travel some distance in order to be able to continue to swim on a regular basis. This is an issue I have raised with the Council but my office will be seeking to arrange a meeting between myself and the stakeholder group for Streatham Swimming Pool imminently to see what further needs to be done.

If you wish to contact me further on this issue, please write to me at my constituency office or email me – contact details are here.

Kind regards,

Chuka

Unlike Kate he will go far.
 
from officers report.

Following the neighbourhood consultations, at the time of writing a total of
284 responses have been received from local residents objecting to the
application (of which 30 are a standard circulated letter - see below). There
have been 12 letters of support and 1 comment received.

For an planning application to get this many objections is a lot.

Sorry for I have not been reading the thread. I got the application notice. I see it's Tesco applying. They were meant to build one on the old site, yes? And is the carpark being demolished for this or for why? Tell me why I'm objecting and I'll get on it. Can you sum up?

e2a: Oh, I suppose I could read the post immediately above this one. :oops:
 
Sorry for I have not been reading the thread. I got the application notice. I see it's Tesco applying. They were meant to build one on the old site, yes? And is the carpark being demolished for this or for why? Tell me why I'm objecting and I'll get on it. Can you sum up?

e2a: Oh, I suppose I could read the post immediately above this one. :oops:

I been putting up excerpts from officers report that should explain. Also some of the earlier posts on this thread give info.
 
Another thing of concern about these 3 linked applications is the lack of consultation.

When the new Brixton Masterplan was developed much was made of involving the community. Future Brixton was supposed to continue this community based development. A new Town Centre Mge was set up with a Brixton Stakeholders Meetings held on a regular basis.

This has all been ditched for the sake of Tescos. The only group to be consulted here is Tescos.

Here is excerpt from Brixton Market Traders Federation comment to Popes road application.

Before setting out the substance of the BMTF’s objection, it should be
noted that neither the applicant nor the Council has engaged in any
meaningful pre-application consultation with the BMTF or its members.

There are three points we would wish to emphasise:

a. There was no serious attempt by the Council to canvass the BMTF’s views before deciding that the site should be identified as the preferred location for the temporary ice-rink. Had these views been canvassed, and properly taken into account, it is unlikely that the site would have been selected for the reasons that we set out below.

b. The two meetings reported at paragraph 6.2 of the Planning Statement submitted by the applicant in support of its application (“the Planning
Statement”) did not constitute proper and effective consultation. The first was a relatively brief informal discussion, which was used essentially to inform the BMTF that the site was going to be used as the location for the temporary ice- rink rather than to canvass the BMTF’s views. The second was more formal, at which a letter was given to the cabinet member for Regeneration and the lead regeneration officer. the letter outlined the BMTP’s opposition to the closure of the car park and stated the need for wider consultation with all relevant Brixton town centre stakeholders. The proposed ice-rink use was at all times presented to the BMTF as a fait accompli, rather than a proposal at a formative stage, and the BMTF’s views were not being sought as to whether the proposal was or was not a sensible one to pursue.

c. The clear views expressed by the BMTF at the pre-application stage as to the inadequacy and impracticality of the proposed alternative arrangements
for stallholders’ parking have simply been ignored.

The BMTF has been left with the very clear impression that, for commercial reasons, this application has been put together in considerable haste, without the benefit of any proper pre-application consultation or an adequate detailed understanding of the impacts or practicality of the proposal. This has manifested itself in the limited and superficial nature of the supporting material submitted by the applicant. For reasons that we explain below the net result is that the Council has not been provided with sufficient information to enable the impacts of the proposal to be assessed, and thus it is not in a position where it can properly determine the application.


 
The officers report state that a temporary car park in Porden road ( behind Town Hall) is a suitable replacement for a loss of parking at Popes road.

"The application does propose off street car parking facilities for ice users. There would be up to 23 spaces for ice users. Additionally the proposed temporary car park in Porden Road is only a short walk from the application site and there would be on street car parking available for ice users.

There would also be an off street coach drop-off / pick-up point dedicated to ice users and their supporters which would be available when the ice facility is in operation.

It is considered therefore that there would be sufficient car parking on site
and on street locally to accommodate car parking and the dropping off and
collection of teams and supporters."


At the site visit today the Skaters turned up to show how awkward it is to walk from Porden road to the proposed site of ice rink in Popes road. DSCN3745.jpgDSCN3738.jpgDSCN3753.jpgDSCN3746.jpg
 
If u dont know Brixton walking from Porden road to the Rec is not a short walk. Its down from Town Hall through the busy Brixton road which is always busy with shoppers, those coming off tube, those waiting at bus stops and traffic. So the ice hockey players have to take all there kit through this to the Rec.

Plus when officers say that there are drop off/ pick up points for coaches it turns out there is no dedicated areas for coaches to park. Between dropping off and picking up they have to make there own arrangements.

The dropping off point is next to Rec. This will be shared with Rec. The road is busy with a lot of other people parking up and traffic from Police station nearby. It is not equivalent replacement for facilities in Streatham.
 
There was a site visit on Saturday to which I as an objector was invited, but I was working and couldn't go. Did anyone else go and has anyone got anything to report about it? The planning meeting is at 7pm on Weds, apparently, in the Town Hall - but again, I don't think I can go.
 
I didn't go on Saturday but will be there on Wednesday. I hope lots of people can make it, given the level of resistance to the project (Brixton residents, Streatham residents, Sport England, the mayor, market traders, Friends of Brixton Market, shop owners) hopefully there's a chance they might listen to some sanity if enough people turn up.
 
I went. The photos were from the site visit. Basically it was going around Porden road and the Popes road site so that Cllrs can see the actual site rather than just look at plans. A lot of people turned up and it was lively to say the least. A lot of irate parents from Streatham.

Apart from the committee members some of the Streatham LibDem Cllrs turned up as well. Plus 2 Labour Cllrs one of whom has put in objection to Popes road because they are concerned about loss of parking. If the parking issue is resolved to there satisfaction they would not be against it.

Porden road really is not suitable as a car park imo. I can understand why the residents of Porden road are against it. Apart from the fact that it is not a suitable replacement for parking that will be lost in central Brixton- its to far away.

The Cllrs and objectors went around the Popes road site. The market traders turned up to that part of the site visit.

There was just one person from Tescos and he was a planning consultant. The rest were Lambeth Officers who were trying to explain the application rather than Tescos. I felt a bit sorry for them. It clear they have been told from above to expediate these applications. They were getting the stick when imo it should have been Tesco down there at Popes road justifying it- its there application in theory.

Still as the Chair of the planning committee said the site visit was not supposed to be the actual discussion. That will take place on Wednesday.

It looks like there will be a lot of people at the meeting. From chatting to a few people its quite normal for contentious applications to take hours to discuss and decide on. I got the feeling that the Chair wants people to have there say.
 
It looks like there will be a lot of people at the meeting. From chatting to a few people its quite normal for contentious applications to take hours to discuss and decide on. I got the feeling that the Chair wants people to have there say.

I hope so. This will be the second planning meeting I've been to since I've lived in central Brixton and I really feel that this is wronger than wrong. It fucks up Streatham, imposes massive infrastructure on problems on central Brixton (I could do without being run over almost every time I come out of my flat :mad:). and frankly panders to the big business whims of Tescos who have been fucking about trying to get out of redeveloping that site nearly as long as I've lived in South London (over a decade).
 
memespring has also said that there have been parking issues in the market area since the car park closed. So have you had the same?

The Council is trying to say the the replacement car park in Porden road will be a replacement. But imo its to far away and inconvenient to get to. In which case there will be more parking issue in central Brixton?
 
memespring has also said that there have been parking issues in the market area since the car park closed. So have you had the same?

The Council is trying to say the the replacement car park in Porden road will be a replacement. But imo its to far away and inconvenient to get to. In which case there will be more parking issue in central Brixton?

We live together so the issues are slightly overlapping :D

But seriously, will it fuck be comparable. It's been terrible since they shut Popes Road and the ice rink will only make it worse. I have other misgivings about the project as a whole but this is what we as local residents can argue on that might help.
 
Good luck all for tomorrow.
- Porden road is not suitable as market parking, it's far too far away. If you parked there you might as well go to Tescos. Oh. Yes. I see.
- The parking issue is about the market. The market needs parking as close to the market as Tescos has parking to its stores.
- Skating belongs in Streatham. They're not the Lambeth Redskins.
 
(I could do without being run over almost every time I come out of my flat :mad:)

The way to reduce traffic outside your flat is to reduce the number of available car parking spaces in the area. If there are fewer car parking spaces then people won't bring their cars here.
 
Just left the meeting after 4 hours. It'll be going gone midnight easily as they've still got a large amount of objections to go through and also a large chunk of the item to go. My reading is that it'll go through but I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

There's at least one hardcore urbanite still there so there may be updates later.
 
If I remember correctly the bit of Streatham Common bordering the road of the same name opposite The Greyhound pub is a flat unremarkable area of municipal grass (the park does gets seriously interesting on many fronts further to the East). Would there really be a problem with constructing a temporary rink there and re-grassing it afterwards ?
 
I took notes at the meeting and will do full report on the weekend. The Ed suggested that I start a new thread for that. Im a bit tired after that marathon meeting.

To summarise the three applications were passed.

The sole LibDem Cllr on the committee Cllr Palmer voted against all three applications- Porden Road car park , Ice rink at Popes road and variation to Section 106.

The Labour Cllr Edbrooke abstained on the vote to agree the Ice rink at Popes road and the Variation to Section 106.

The other three Labour Cllrs on the committee voted to agree all three applications with some extra conditiions.

The meeting was well attended by the public. Including Streatham skaters, Friends of Brixton Market, Brixton Society, Porden Road residents association , Brixton Market Traders Federation and Urbanites.

Several LibDem Cllrs from the Streatham area attended to oppose the application. Including Cllr Best ( who has done a lot ) and Cllr Clyne.

Labour Cllr Matt Parr who is Coldharbour Ward Cllr ( the ward the Market is in) attended and spoke to oppose the replacement of the Car park by the Ice rink because he was not convinced there was adequate replacement parking for the market.

There was at least one blogger there. See here:

http://www.streathampulse.com/2011/02/03/popes-road-planning-permission-passed/
 
BTW: The headline facts were that Tesco admitted that:

1) The temporary ice rink would cost £3m to build and run i.e. exactly the same as the money the Streatham Hub will supposedly save by creating a temporary rink in Brixton.
2) The two years that might be saved from the Streatham Hub project by the move to Brixton, but only take the project back to the original estimate of three years (Tesco upped the time frame for the project when they found the build was harder than they originally thought)
3) The only financial benefit for stakeholders will be for Tesco when they open their store on time (they actually admitted this to the committee)
 
Correct memespring.

I did find it somewhat odd that the Council Officers kept saying that the changes to the Section 106 were needed because the recession had changed the viability of the scheme. However the people from Tescos said that the money saved would be going into the rink at Brixton. It was a zero sum game. The Tescos reps did not mention the recession as a reason.
 
Not only that but, as numerous residents pointed out, the plans breached various policies. The council seems really invested in this project. I can understand as leisure facilities in Lambeth are dreadful, but theyre willing to sacrifice a lot, it seems.
 
Onwards and upwards Judicial Review?

We are beginning to investigate a Judicial Review of the Section 106 variation, there is no equivalence to the Streatham Ice Arena facilities at Popes Road, the distorted report full of inaccuracies prepared by DP9 is pure fantasy to conclude that Popes Road is not just the same as but better than Streatham's Ice Arena.
If we do go down this route it will be expensive, we will be looking for donations to help fund this, too many people and businesses will be impacted irreversibly by this crazy decision, lives and livelihoods’ will be at risk, it may create jobs in Brixton but what about all the jobs lost in Streatham. We will be setting. The threats of if the businesses in Brixton don’t respond to the opportunity created by the Ice rink coming to Brixton, others will is not just a hollow threat, gentrification of Brixton is on the cards and the multi-cultural businesses that meet the special needs of their customers are really under threat. Skaters do not come to go shopping, so there wil be little benefit to businesses from these skaters, the only benefactor will be Brixton’s parking services who will be making millions out of our skaters and their parents forced to pay to park.
Insult No1- "This is gentrification of Brixton and you have not got your ticket".
Insult No 2. "White middle class people want to shop in Brixton and buy books and cheese from cheese shops. They want to stroll around Brixton and not have to look at 16 horrible looking meat shops on Electric Avenue, It is time for Brixton to move on". The insults came from 2 Councillors who got into their seats by their means necessary and forgot the votes of the people who need the smelly meat shops, who can already buy both cheese and books in Brixton.
Brixton Market is under threat, our youth will be under threat, our clubs and teams will not only be priced out of the rink but logistically, getting to it adds at least an hour to journey times, lack of space and storage will cause frustration, and lack of adequate parking close by will stretch patience not just of our users but also local businessmen and residents, how much pain are we supposed to live with, just to appease Lambeth’s political ideology and increase the profitability of Tesco’s two years earlier than the original section 106 allowed them.
Watch this space we will be keeping all informed of our plans, you will be told how to donate if we proceed..
 
Insult No 2. "White middle class people want to shop in Brixton and buy books and cheese from cheese shops. They want to stroll around Brixton and not have to look at 16 horrible looking meat shops on Electric Avenue, It is time for Brixton to move on". The insults came from 2 Councillors who got into their seats by their means necessary and forgot the votes of the people who need the smelly meat shops, who can already buy both cheese and books in Brixton.

I saw a member of the audience round on Cllr Prentice for that one after the meeting. I hope like hell my recorder caught the original line...
 
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