Streatham_Mao
Active Member
This. But at least there's will for a temporary ice rink - unlike the leisure centre. Ironically I find it easier (and nicer) to go to a pool just outside of the borough, rather than in Brixton.
Popes road car park to become temporary Ice Rink
- Thread starter Gramsci
- Start date
This. But at least there's will for a temporary ice rink - unlike the leisure centre. Ironically I find it easier (and nicer) to go to a pool just outside of the borough, rather than in Brixton.
Tricky Skills
Well-Known Member
There is a public meeting on Tuesday 31st, 7pm at the Karibu, for anyone who wishes to support the market traders in their attempt to keep Pope's Road as part of the market.
Skaters4the Hub
New Member
From Today We have our online petition running goto:-
http://www.petitiononline.co.uk/petition/save-skating-in-streatham/362
Skaters 4 the Hub
http://www.petitiononline.co.uk/petition/save-skating-in-streatham/362
Skaters 4 the Hub
Co-op and Streatham Mao, fair enough - Tesco should have been held to their agreement. But in the context of Streatham residents being dismayed to see Brixton apparantly benefittting for the re-location, 'Save the Rink, don't let Tesco slide out of their obligation' would perhaps have seemed less nimby-ish and also attracted the attention and support for pressurising the council and Tesco to do the right thing. My whole engagement with this issue was via reading those posters and wrongly, obviously, and outside the Tesco context, I thought a few years of Ice rink on the edge of the common was a reasonable pay-off for a brand new rink and leisure complex. But I can see now that the move to Brixton adds insult to injury.
Streatham_Mao
Active Member
The thing about Tesco sliding out of their obligations wasn't really seen as a runner for HOOC as a whole bunch of businesses were renegotiating contracts due to the economic downturn. Picking on one wasn't really helpful, even if Tesco already has a bad reputation for changing designs post-agreement.
There was also the question of just how temporary the rink would have been. With an estimated cost of about 6 million IIRC, and having to basically plug in the common even for basics like electricity left a suspicion that Tesco would go 'well, we spent 6 mil, there you go. I think we've done enough'. Add that to a story in Private Eye about how the council never got Tesco to sign the agreement, so they couldn't enforce anything and you have a problem.
Point taken. The old Young Vic (before it was rebuilt) was only ever meant to be temporary, as was the Eye, and I think the Dome (good examples, in my opinion, of temporary plans taking root, but tking root in a Common is different) . So I can also see that Streatham residents fear that a move to the Brixton car park may also be for good.
Streatham_Mao
Active Member
I heard that a Brixton councillor intended to make sure the rink wouldn't come back to Streatham. So yeah, I suspect (assuming I heard right) they have reason to worry.
skating is obviously great fun but it is also freekinly dangerous: knew someone who went out on the ice for 6 minutes then spent 6 months with a leg in plaster! :-o
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
There is now a website opposing the placing of the Ice Rink where the Popes road car park is now
www.donticebrixtonmarket.org
www.donticebrixtonmarket.org
Rushy
basically a scrotum
I have a great deal of sympathy with this campaign but wonder if it couldn't be more constructive and promote a deal which benefits the town centre. I have no objection to the principle of having an ice rink in Brixton so what if, only for instance, Tesco were able to build a temporary structure and give over the entire roof space to parking? And perhaps a commitment to contribute towards a multi storey carpark (or other hub project) at the end of the three year period? That would certainly be better than the status quo, i.e. no parking on that site at all and no money to make the necessary improvements to re-open.
there is a petition: http://www.gopetition.com/petition/39157.html
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
Because any multi-level building including car parking would cost massively more than the lightweight structure now proposed for the temporary rink. This whole debacle is because Tesco want to spend less money than they originally "committed" to, and Lambeth failed to get a signed development agreement before the downturn.
boohoo
No.
it's interesting the change in shopping - we use to walk to the market and back as I imagine many people did and still do. However in general convenience stores have changed the way people shop - my mum doesn't get her veg from the market in the way she did when I was a child. ALso as the website pointed out, it talks about people buying the large sacks of rice and cans of oil which would need a car.
I think a temporary ice rink should stay in Streatham as this is where ice skating has always been and what Tescos was meant to do.
There should be additional car park space made available for the market traders.
I think a temporary ice rink should stay in Streatham as this is where ice skating has always been and what Tescos was meant to do.
There should be additional car park space made available for the market traders.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
I don't fully understand the nature of the approval in Streatham. Are you saying that Lambeth negotiated the continuity of the ice rink in discussions with Tesco but never actually added it an express condition of the planning approval or any other contract? I've had quite a lot of dealings with Lambeth Planning over the past decade and they are far from forward-thinking, efficient or pro-active at the best of times but that would seem an unbelievable oversight. Are you certain? Surely an error like that is a good reason for Les Brown to face the sack.
Back to Pope's Road - the planning dept could refuse an application that did not incorporate a storey of parking. If that is too expensive then it may make Tesco's original proposal of keeping the current rink open until the new one is complete more attractive again.
Check out the new video of Brixton shoppers we spoke to on Saturday, now on www.donticebrixtonmarket.org. Within an hour of wandering about, we met no one in favour of the ice rink, and all these people furious about it.
Just to add our own clarifications in relation to the deal with Tesco and their agreement with Lambeth: Our understanding is that Lambeth negotiated a Section 106 agreement in 2007 which involved Tesco building the new superstore and leisure centre / ice rink in Streatham in phases. They would build the new ice rink before knocking down the old one so that 'continuity of ice' would be guaranteed in Streatham in its permanent location. This agreement still stands.
However, when the recession hit, Tesco - who posted profits of £3bn in 2009 - claimed the phases development was no longer 'economically viable', They therefore demanded an external site for a temporary ice rink.
When the planning application for the ice rink comes to planning committee, the committee will also be making a judgement on a separate (but inextricably linked) application by Tesco to vary that existing Section 106 agreement.
It's all to save Tesco cash at a time when Brixton Market is suffering on all fronts. Hadn't heard about Lambeth failing to sign the deal - our understanding is simply that Tesco have the right to apply to change it.
Just to add our own clarifications in relation to the deal with Tesco and their agreement with Lambeth: Our understanding is that Lambeth negotiated a Section 106 agreement in 2007 which involved Tesco building the new superstore and leisure centre / ice rink in Streatham in phases. They would build the new ice rink before knocking down the old one so that 'continuity of ice' would be guaranteed in Streatham in its permanent location. This agreement still stands.
However, when the recession hit, Tesco - who posted profits of £3bn in 2009 - claimed the phases development was no longer 'economically viable', They therefore demanded an external site for a temporary ice rink.
When the planning application for the ice rink comes to planning committee, the committee will also be making a judgement on a separate (but inextricably linked) application by Tesco to vary that existing Section 106 agreement.
It's all to save Tesco cash at a time when Brixton Market is suffering on all fronts. Hadn't heard about Lambeth failing to sign the deal - our understanding is simply that Tesco have the right to apply to change it.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Thanks for that clarification. That makes more sense. Is there a particular reason to believe that either the committee or Planning are likely to support Tesco's application to vary the agreement? I cannot imagine that it will be particularly sympathetic. Unless of course it actually believes plonking the ice rink on the Pope's Road site is a good idea in itself.
Not sure I am all that convinced by the "I need a car park to bring my kids here for lunch" argument but good to see strong local feeling and you guys getting it on camera and on the net. I still think that the 'no ice rink' argument is misleading. People aren't against an ice-rink - they want parking. My guess (based on little more than gut feeling) is that the temp ice-rink will probably get turned down but that there will still be no parking solution on offer.
What the planning committee will do is presumably down to the strength of argument shown to them through the consultation period and at the committee itself.
The committees are of course *meant* to be unaffected by party politics... but when Lambeth Cabinet have already made a judgement you can't help but feel a little unsure about this.
As to the need for parking, and the options for it, there is, we and Brixton business believe, a very realistic option in the site of Pope's Road carpark once the old carpark has been removed.
In the long term, the Masterplan has the site down for mixed use development including car parking. This isn't happening for the foreseeable future because of the recesssion.
But even in the short term, the site could provide parking: Because the old building has been condemned, the council are set to have it demolished in the next couple of months. We believe the tender went out for the job some weeks ago.
The sensible thing to do with the site, we think, would be to tarmac at, providing potentially 80-100 spaces.
The opposition between 'Natsy old eye-sore derelict carpark' and ice rink is false - it's actually between 'ground level open air space ready for use as a car park' and ice rink.
And to quibble just a little, it's a little mean to pick only the 'kids and pizza' argument out of all those people who spoke on the video.
The committees are of course *meant* to be unaffected by party politics... but when Lambeth Cabinet have already made a judgement you can't help but feel a little unsure about this.
As to the need for parking, and the options for it, there is, we and Brixton business believe, a very realistic option in the site of Pope's Road carpark once the old carpark has been removed.
In the long term, the Masterplan has the site down for mixed use development including car parking. This isn't happening for the foreseeable future because of the recesssion.
But even in the short term, the site could provide parking: Because the old building has been condemned, the council are set to have it demolished in the next couple of months. We believe the tender went out for the job some weeks ago.
The sensible thing to do with the site, we think, would be to tarmac at, providing potentially 80-100 spaces.
The opposition between 'Natsy old eye-sore derelict carpark' and ice rink is false - it's actually between 'ground level open air space ready for use as a car park' and ice rink.
And to quibble just a little, it's a little mean to pick only the 'kids and pizza' argument out of all those people who spoke on the video.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
My saying well done for getting the vid done and published is meant completely sincerely. Sorry if that was not clear. My comment really wasn't supposed to be mean - it just seemed to me that all the respondents except for one are talking about parking being necessary for 'others' and for the survival of the market. Pizza man (as he will henceforth be known) just stood out for me because he's the only person who actually talks about his own experience and why he himself needs to drive in - and my immediate reaction was - er, that's not a very convincing reason. I'm sure that you'll get much more critical / meaner comments than mine during the campaigning process!
I agree that tarmacking the site could be sensible as a short term solution and if you are certain that the only two possible outcomes are 'ground level space ready for parking' and 'ice rink' then fair enough. I agree both of those are possibilities but I think it is probably unwise to absolutely rule out the 'derelict-carpark-or-empty-space-for-another-couple-of-years' option just yet. For that reason I wouldn't object to seeing a further option which provided a decent amount of parking along with another facility if the provision of that facility funds the parking, thus ensuring that we actually get it. I imagine that there must be some scope for finding a middle ground which is economically feasible, particularly since people are unlikely to be opposed to an ice rink per-se but opposed to an ice rink which negates the provision of parking facilities.
In summary, although I think that there are still probably more than two possible outcomes at this stage AND I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for your Pizza Man's kiddie lunch struggle, I support the principles of your campaign and will express that to Lambeth when the planning application is submitted.
Streatham_Mao
Active Member
It was in Private Eye a while back. If I have time I may dig out the important details.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
For anyone else interested, this appears to provide a relatively straightforward summary of background to the current situation (up to March):
http://www.handsoffourcommon.com/node/2
http://www.handsoffourcommon.com/node/2
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
The particular reason that the Planning committee might support the application and change to Section 106 agreement is that the committee is made up of Cllrs. As Lambeth is a Labour Council there will be a lot of Labour Cllrs on it. If the administration really want to push something through they will attempt to do this. Despite the Planning committee in theory being independant of party whips.I guess the officers report to the meeting will be written in such a way that it is supportive of the application.
The application will be put in by Tescos. I dont think planning officers are going to fall over themselves to find a problem with this application or change to Section 106 agreement.
The Ice Rink in Brixton will be presented as a useful addition to Brixton. Future Brixton have already emailed me about exhibition on Library.
This is the problem. This application wont be treated like one independantly brought in by a developer.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Interesting - thanks. Sounds like Tesco are trying to weasle their way out of the original agreement and need to be held to it. Also sounds like Lambeth should have had a tighter agreement to start with e.g. that held Tesco's to providing temp ice rink *on the same site*.
That said, from my kids pov it would be great having an ice rink in the centre of Brixton, and it seems to me that it could bring in a lot more punters to the market at the same time. And hey, some of them could even get to Brixton by bus/bike/tube/walking.
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
My bad ... I should have written that "Lambeth failed to get a signed development agreement which gave them any bargaining power before the downturn."
There was a development agreement between Lambeth (in its role as landowner of part of the Streatham Hub site occupied by the pool and former council depot) and Tesco signed at the same time as the section 106 agreement, but it appears to have been written on a Panglossian basis that this was the best of all possible worlds and with no real options for redress if Tesco backed out of it.
There was a development agreement between Lambeth (in its role as landowner of part of the Streatham Hub site occupied by the pool and former council depot) and Tesco signed at the same time as the section 106 agreement, but it appears to have been written on a Panglossian basis that this was the best of all possible worlds and with no real options for redress if Tesco backed out of it.
editor
hiraethified
More photos (courtesy of memespring) here: http://www.urban75.org/blog/brixton...rs-protest-against-proposed-car-park-closure/
I'm hoping that by blogging it, Tweeting it and - in a minute! - linking to it from the Brixton homepage I'll help publicise the protest.
I'm hoping that by blogging it, Tweeting it and - in a minute! - linking to it from the Brixton homepage I'll help publicise the protest.
More pics here!
http://www.donticebrixtonmarket.org/brixton-lock-down-demo.html
There's going to be more and bigger demos over the next months. If anyone's interested in helping out with the next one, or handing out leaflets on the weekends, please get in touch: contact@friendsofbrixtonmarket.org
http://www.donticebrixtonmarket.org/brixton-lock-down-demo.html
There's going to be more and bigger demos over the next months. If anyone's interested in helping out with the next one, or handing out leaflets on the weekends, please get in touch: contact@friendsofbrixtonmarket.org
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