Plane Stupid shut down Stansted Airport

[danny la rouge]

I think their responsibilities lie in the right place, we do not need new runways ( paid by the government ).

I'm afraid that doesn't make sense. Whose resposibilities are you talking about?

 

[danny la rouge]

Changing the financial structure to manipulate us all onto the trains might be a positive environmental move but makes little or no financial sense.

Making public transport cheaper and more convenient would be of benefit to society.

 

[kyser_soze]

FWIW, it's people like yourself snadge, who fly frequently, that keep more places up in the air. Commuter and business flights make up the bulk of planned scheduling, not holiday flights, so if there were less people like you there'd be less flights full stop, because not only do airlines loose slots, if they don't keep a regular timetable of flights, they loose the frequent flyers and corporate travel bookings that are their bread and butter.

So - you and your FF kin stop flying so much, all the airlines have to drop flights, they don't have to worry about loosing slots because there will be less all round, there won't be any perceived need for additional runways.

What I find interesting is how everyone would be about flying if there were a nationalised/publicly subsidised service like the trains - which essentially there is when you consider the fuel subsidy, and given that many flights are actually cheaper than trains. What makes flying so different that it isn't classified as 'public' transport?

 

[Dan U]

Making public transport cheaper and more convenient would be of benefit to society.

hell yeah.

it's a no brainer to me really.

i've got meetings coming up in Cheshire and North Wales and at the moment from a purely cost perspective it's looking like it will be cheaper to hire a car for the day and fill it with fuel.

which is just nuts.

 

[Belushi]

I don't see many people having a go at the weather in such disgust when their flight is delayed for 2 days.

Thst because the weather isnt delibarately targetting you.

 

[Belushi]

But self-righteous puritans disrupting the rare holiday of a low-paid worker doesn't tackle that at all. It just shows them up as lifestylers without a clear analysis of the situation.

Spot on.

 

[Badgers]

Train train train

 

[Crispy]

consider the fuel subsidy, and given that many flights are actually cheaper than trains. What makes flying so different that it isn't classified as 'public' transport?

Very good question.

 

[ajdown]

Perhaps the 'security' aspect is what makes it different?

 

[Crispy]

'turn up and go' is pretty tricky with a plane
(although it seems the train companies would like to have less of this these days too )

 

[newbie]

what makes it different is that it's never been provided by the state, unlike trains and buses.


what valso makes it different is the environmental consequences

 

[Frampton]

Intriguing isn't it? How every age demonises its protesters (witness some of our own posts). It takes a few generations to transform protesters into heroes/heroines.

In their time the sufferagettes were slagged off as prostitutes and idiots. WW1 Conscientious Objectors were spat upon and handed white feathers in the streets. The small group of activists who kicked off the civil rights movement certainly did not have the support of the majority of US citizens.

Interesting to compare the Greek government's response to the police shooting of an activist with a not too dis-similar incident on the London tube. Solely because of Direct Action the Greek government really had to sit up and take notice. In Britain, following months of enquiry, a coroner rules that a jury verdict of "unlawful killing" will not be acceptable.

I don't want to romanticise Direct Action. Sometime it goes wrong. Lots of times it lacks imagination. But risk and an unknown outcome is part and parcel of the game.

Up the Rebels!

 

[danny la rouge]

Intriguing isn't it? How every age demonises its protesters (witness some of our own posts). It takes a few generations to transform protesters into heroes/heroines.

These ones aren't, though. They're missing the point, and targeting the wrong people.

 

[kyser_soze]

what makes it different is that it's never been provided by the state, unlike trains and buses.


what valso makes it different is the environmental consequences

So that's the only difference? And are you saying that generating electricity or burning diesel doesn't have environmental consequences?

Also, rail and bus services both started out as private concerns

 

[treelover]

I would love to be able to use trains more, travelling across the EU by train, can be incredibly expensive.

 

[kyser_soze]

Trans EU train journeys, at least via the HSTs, should get easier, if not cheaper, from next year

http://www.railteam.co.uk/

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

This idea that the likes of Plane Stupid are attacking "workers going on holiday" is simplistic at best. Most short haul cheap flights are booked by businesses. And the middle classes take several such flights a year not just a couple.

Still, lets not have facts get in the way of the rants of the phoney class warriors.

Those who will suffer the effects of climate change are a good deal poorer than just about anyone in this country.

 

[Badgers]

Trans EU train journeys, at least via the HSTs, should get easier, if not cheaper, from next year

http://www.railteam.co.uk/

Bookmarked double quick

 

[ajdown]

For those supporting this action...

Anita Kelleher had been due to fly to the Irish Republic to attend her father's funeral, but her flight was cancelled. "His funeral is tonight, the Rosary is tonight. I've missed being at my dad's Rosary tonight and I'm heartbroken," she told the BBC.


Nicola Hilda and a friend had been supposed to travel to Bremen in Germany for a day trip, but their flight was also cancelled. "We've saved up for it for months and months and we're just thoroughly disappointed," she said.

Just two stories on the BBC news page about it, out of the hundreds of people who have been disrupted.

I really hope you're pleased with yourselves, you sick bastards.

 

[kyser_soze]

And the middle classes take several such flights a year not just a couple.

Most of the people who use Stanstead for non-business purposes are C1C2Ds - the vast bulk of the w/c in fact - many of whom now take more than 1 main holiday per year, especially before having kids. So they are in fact attacking workers going on holiday.

 

[ajdown]

What does someones working status have to do with whether it's acceptable to disrupt them or not?

Why is a busy executive grabbing a couple of days to go away with his wife any less important than a street cleaner who can only afford one holiday a year, or any different to a pensioner who's saved up all year?

 

[_angel_]

If the protesters could single out frequent flyers and business class, then fair play. But they can't. Some of the people disrupted will be folk who have saved up for ages, and who don't get many holidays. I'd be furious if it had been me on one of the less-than-a-handful of occasions I'd flown.

Yes, I'm more angry at the government, but frankly so should the protesters be.

I'd be pretty miffed if, I'd finally sorted out some miraculous childcare and arranged to go away for a few days, to be stopped.

I've only ever flown once ffs!

 

[danny la rouge]

This idea that the likes of Plane Stupid are attacking "workers going on holiday" is simplistic at best.

I said they were indiscriminate. In my first post I said if they can target only frequent flyers and business class then fair enough.

But they can't.

 

[danny la rouge]

What does someones working status have to do with whether it's acceptable to disrupt them or not?

It's about frequent flying, isn't it. I've flown fewer times in my lifetime than Coldplay's Chris Martin has probably flown this week.

 

[ajdown]

Then protest the pilots, they fly every day...

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

There is a danger in fetishising flights.

Meat and dairy are responsible for more climate change emmissions than all global transport combined.

Go veg and we can probably all fly as much as we like, working class or not.

 

[danny la rouge]

Then protest the pilots, they fly every day...

At whom is that gag directed?

 

[elbows]

Trains are not going to get cheaper in future because they are already pretty full, therefore they dont really want a lot more people trying to use them.

Flight is kept cheap and is supported by governments in part because they want money from overseas, whether that be through business or tourism.

Eventually environmental and resource issues will make it necessary to reduce flights, and this will mostly be done by destroying demand - either flights will get more expensive, or we will all get poorer and most wont be able to afford to fly much anymore. In recent years the high oil price started this ball rolling, now we are in a different phase where the price of fuel is cheap again, but general economic woes will destroy demand. Airline consolidation, reduction of number of flights, looks rather likely.

 

[ajdown]

Fuel is not cheap, it's just less expensive than it was.

 

[Cobbles]

OK I sort of get you, I pity the people that have had their flights disrupted but that is not an uncommon thing at Airports is it, usually delays are the fault of the Airport itself, weather etc, so it is not uncommon to have to wait in Airports for hours on end, just because this time it is due to a valid protest does not make it any worse than fog for example, you are still holed up in a shithole Airport.

I don't see many people having a go at the weather in such disgust when their flight is delayed for 2 days.

I'm surprised that it took so long - if all these eco-twats were handily chained together, then I can't inderstand why they didn't just hook them up to one of the aircraft tugs and drag them out of the way. Even if one of them was locked onto something solid, 5 minutes with an angle grinder would have sorted that.

I presume that they'll insist on being kept in an unheated cell to minimise their carbon footprint once they've been convicted.