danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Did you chain yourself to yourself and shout slogans?
Plane Stupid shut down Stansted Airport
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ajdown
Posting in this thread
There's a big difference to "cheap flights to anywhere" and "cheap flights to places I actually want to go to".
Often of course you end up adding more than the cost of the flight in taxes and stuff, so if anyone could actually fly to the US for a tenner all in I'd be very surprised.
Often of course you end up adding more than the cost of the flight in taxes and stuff, so if anyone could actually fly to the US for a tenner all in I'd be very surprised.
snadge
metal alchemist
why would I want to do that?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
A couple of years ago, I flew to Italy for £26 each (me, the missus, two kids). I'm glad we did. It was a great holiday, and it would have cost us hundreds of pounds by train, which there's no way we could have afforded.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Well, you seemed to support the protesters earlier in the thread.
snadge
metal alchemist
As I have said already, we don't need any more runways, how does that equate to "we don't need to fly at all"?
have less planes flying to a destination per week and fill them up, you do not need a new runway to do that, maybe less as there would be less planes flying.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
My point is that Plane Stupid's approach is indiscriminate and doesn't target the heart of the issue.
Plane takes off - eventually
snadge
metal alchemist
No it doesn't and our energy bills are going through the roof because of it.
Businesses pay a reduced "business rate" to the energy companies.
Airlines don't pay tax on aviation fuel, it is as cheap as chips.
snadge
metal alchemist
To me it does, it is as simple as.
WE DON"T NEED ANYMORE FUCKING RUNWAYS, fill the existing flights up, reduce the amount of empty planes flying to destinations.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Shouting doesn't explain it any more clearly. I agree that we don't need any more runways. What I don't agree with is indiscriminately disrupting individual's travel, including the rare holidays of low paid workers who aren't the problem.
If you think that's just their hard luck, why then should your trip to Prague be exempt?
ajdown
Posting in this thread
But why should planes be different than any other transport?
Should a train wait at the station till all the seats are full before moving away?
Should you have to round up 3 people that want to travel with you before you can drive your car?
It's all about supply and demand, which changes seasonally. You can't "fly off peak" to reduce demand like you can in other forms of transport, not as many people go to ski resorts when there's no snow do they?
Should a train wait at the station till all the seats are full before moving away?
Should you have to round up 3 people that want to travel with you before you can drive your car?
It's all about supply and demand, which changes seasonally. You can't "fly off peak" to reduce demand like you can in other forms of transport, not as many people go to ski resorts when there's no snow do they?
snadge
metal alchemist
How was my trip to Prague exempt?
Maybe because I flew from an Airport that isn't taking the piss by trying to build more fucking runways that are not needed.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
To whom is that addressed?
The problem is that travel as a whole needs to become more fuel efficient. And for some journeys, actually, flight might be the most efficient option.
However, what we don't need is thoughtless expansion off the back of growth-targeted subsidy.
newbie
undisambiguated
I've found in the past that it's cheaper to fly from Stansted to Italy than to get from Brixton to Stansted by tube/train. That's a profitable commercial airline compared with a very heavily subsidised rail fare. Baffling.
It would be interesting to know what proportion of Ryan passengers are doing regular business trips and regular trips to/from homes abroad. Compared with the low carbon lifestyle, saved up for ages, trip of a lifetime individuals flying first thing on a monday morning in December.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Because you didn't want to protest at yourself.
Are you arguing that only flights from airports planning new runways are an environmental issue? If so, you're wrong.
snadge
metal alchemist
because they run them fucking empty to keep that franchise.
When was the last time you were on a fucking train, the last time I was I had to sit in the corridor because it was over filled.
cost me £200 quid return as well, I was asked to leave one of the six first class carriages which were mostly empty.
they are a bunch of greedy wankers as well.
snadge
metal alchemist
what the fuck are you on about, you really are not making any sense.....
I am against new runways at all airports as they are not needed.
That does not mean I am against getting on a plane to fly somewhere.
utilise empty planes, fuck off the rule that makes airlines have to fly to barcelona 3 times a day or whatever to keep that route etc.
Tax aviation fuel.
and herein lies part of the problem doesn't it.
imo there is no real reason for most of the internal UK flights. If i can get to Paris in just over 2 hours on a train why the fuck can i only get to Manchester in the same time at a not dissimilar cost.
and if i want to go before 10am it's often cheaper to fly!
crazy.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I flew Ryanair from Prestwick to Pisa. It was (much) cheaper than a train ticket to my mother-in-law's in Staffordshire.
I'll be visiting her later this month. I'll drive, since that's cheaper and more convenient. If we were really serious about climate change, it wouldn't be.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I'm on about the protesters and their tactics.
snadge
metal alchemist
OK I sort of get you, I pity the people that have had their flights disrupted but that is not an uncommon thing at Airports is it, usually delays are the fault of the Airport itself, weather etc, so it is not uncommon to have to wait in Airports for hours on end, just because this time it is due to a valid protest does not make it any worse than fog for example, you are still holed up in a shithole Airport.
I don't see many people having a go at the weather in such disgust when their flight is delayed for 2 days.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Well, they'd be pissed off, but they wouldn't be pissed off at misguided lifestylers who apparently had no clear idea of where responsibility lay.
QueenOfGoths
Fuck you Dave!
From what I have seen on the news and read Plane Stupid were not protesting specifically about plans for another runaway at Stanstead but aganist general climate change and CO2 emissions from the aviation industry.
Had it been solely to do with the plans for expansion at Stanstead I would have had more sympathy with them targeting the runway to shut it down but as it wasn't I agree with Danny that the focus of their protest was flawed and they have done themselves a diservice (sp?) by antagonising people who are occasional flyers going off on holiday who othertwise may sympathise with what they are trying to acheive.
Says the women who is flying from Stanstead next week
Had it been solely to do with the plans for expansion at Stanstead I would have had more sympathy with them targeting the runway to shut it down but as it wasn't I agree with Danny that the focus of their protest was flawed and they have done themselves a diservice (sp?) by antagonising people who are occasional flyers going off on holiday who othertwise may sympathise with what they are trying to acheive.
Says the women who is flying from Stanstead next week
snadge
metal alchemist
I think their responsibilities lie in the right place, we do not need new runways ( paid by the government ).
Ah just seen that it wasn't specifically about the runway expansion, just CO2 emissions and green issues about the operators.
In that case KILL THE UNWASHED SCUM.
TAX aviation fuel, maybe that would change the way operators fly empty planes just to keep their routes.
newbie
undisambiguated
maybe... sfaics the only way to alter the equations is to change taxation and subsidies. Rail is heavily subsidised, road fuel is heavily taxed, air is taxed (though perhaps not enough) yet still rail is by far the most expensive. Changing the financial structure to manipulate us all onto the trains might be a positive environmental move but makes little or no financial sense.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Quite.
Plane Stupid says on its website that the action is intended to draw attention to CO2 emissions from the aviation industry. That's all well and good, but the way they've gone about it targets the wrong people.
ajdown
Posting in this thread
Saturday actually, I went to Brighton for the day, and there was plenty of room on the 09.22.
If the train is that overcrowded, I always sit in first class, and when the ticket guy comes round just say "there's nowhere else to sit" and there isn't really a lot they can do about it. They don't need the aggro from everyone, it's easier to just let people stay, as long as they aren't blocking those with first class tickets from sitting down.
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