PIP, mental health and phone assessments

[StillOnFire]

My friend had a PIP phone assessment on Tuesday (on speaker phone), they have pretty severe mental health issues and poor mobility. I was helping them as a witness and to explain questions add context when needed, translate bits (English is a second language for them and they have poor hearing). The whole process was a shambles, they asked pretty pointless questions, which were obviously designed to be leading, the assessor had little to no knowledge of the problems they faced. We live in an awful society.

Apologies, just wanted to vent. I will be supporting them the whole way through it.

 

[geminisnake]

did you record it? It might be worth checking your local council area to see if they have a Welfare Rights Dept to help with any potential appeal. The whole PIP/ESA/DLA assessment thing is a pita and rigged in the favour of the DWP ime.

 

[RainbowTown]

No need to apologise. You are right to feel as you do. If you or your friend know of any local disability or mental health agency within your area then it might be worth asking them for further advice or help. Also your local Citizen’s Advice maybe in a position to give your further support and information as well. Good luck.

 

[poppy60]

I have been through that PIP assessment in person and on the phone,thought the phone assessment would be easier[no chance] I am now waiting for the appeal date.

 

[muvva]

It sucks, I was refused PIP a few years ago when I was unwell but fought it thanks to some good support here. It was awarded after tribunal and I received it for about a year I think.

 

[newme]

It sucks, I was refused PIP a few years ago when I was unwell but fought it thanks to some good support here. It was awarded after tribunal and I received it for about a year I think.

Anecdotal of course but it does seem like near everyone seems to end up failing the first time. Or did when I kept hearing about it anyway.

SO is likely due PIP however the entire process of it all is so off-putting I can only see it making the symptoms worse. Really think it's not well thought out at all for anyone with MH symptoms. Well from the applicants side anyway.

 

[Karl Masks]

did you record it? It might be worth checking your local council area to see if they have a Welfare Rights Dept to help with any potential appeal. The whole PIP/ESA/DLA assessment thing is a pita and rigged in the favour of the DWP ime.

Don't you have to have their consent to do so?

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Don't you have to have their consent to do so?

I think you just need to let them know if you are they can then decide what they do.

 

[rich!]

I thought for recording it there was a requirement that you make two copies of the recording at the same time so they can have one. (Or is that just the physical interview?) - I remember a Liverpool disability charity fund-raising to make "double recorders" so they could lend them to people attending interviews.

I've supported a few people through these - both by phone and in person - and it's always really shite. Even if the assessor has actually read the submission it is tough on the person being assessed because they have to present their worst self to someone who may be hostile.

If you haven't already got a copy, Disability Rights UK have an excellent benefits guide that covers things like the PIP questions, how they are scored, and how to appeal a wrong decision.

 

[Pickman's model]

I thought for recording it there was a requirement that you make two copies of the recording at the same time so they can have one. (Or is that just the physical interview?) - I remember a Liverpool disability charity fund-raising to make "double recorders" so they could lend them to people attending interviews.

I've supported a few people through these - both by phone and in person - and it's always really shite. Even if the assessor has actually read the submission it is tough on the person being assessed because they have to present their worst self to someone who may be hostile.

If you haven't already got a copy, Disability Rights UK have an excellent benefits guide that covers things like the PIP questions, how they are scored, and how to appeal a wrong decision.

i helped a friend of mine with pip and esa assessments, and one of the dwp people we spoke to advised us to make recordings in case er disagreements of what had been said came up. we used my friend's phone on speaker while i used my phone to record. never had to use the recordings but it made me more comfortable knowing we had them recorded in case inaccuracies emerged in the decision. the people we spoke to were really nice and kind throughout the process - i know perhaps we were lucky, but it's worth assuming they'll be ok rather than expecting shit. we didn't say we're recording this call btw, just went ahead and did it.

 

[geminisnake]

Don't you have to have their consent to do so?

you can ask for it to be recorded they don't like that cos they have to get recording equipment but also wemakeyou wrote you can inform them you are going to record it for your own use

 

[equationgirl]

you can ask for it to be recorded they don't like that cos they have to get recording equipment but also wemakeyou wrote you can inform them you are going to record it for your own use

The recording equipment provision is a bit of a debacle. I think it's something like 8 double recorders are made available to record assessments, they spend most of the time being shipped across the UK and are often found to be not working on arrival, and then have to be shipped off somewhere for repair.

Best off just recording it on a mobile phone and providing the recording if required.

 

[Karl Masks]

The recording equipment provision is a bit of a debacle. I think it's something like 8 double recorders are made available to record assessments, they spend most of the time being shipped across the UK and are often found to be not working on arrival, and then have to be shipped off somewhere for repair.

Best off just recording it on a mobile phone and providing the recording if required.

my concern was that, to my understanding, if you record it yourself, ie without their consent, you can't use that in your case, appeals etc.

 

[rich!]

my concern was that, to my understanding, if you record it yourself, ie without their consent, you can't use that in your case, appeals etc.

when I've done assessment support I've seen my job as writing very, very fast so there is a set of notes on what's said, then chiming in at the end with a few points if I think the person I'm supporting hasn't mentioned enough things or hasn't mentioned some things well enough for the assessor to score it properly. That way there are "contemporaneous notes" and they have proved useful when we had to appeal the assessment.

Incidentally, just went from "assessment" to "approved" in 6 working days which I think must be some kind of record, unless they have suddenly staffed up the system...

 

[StillOnFire]

Hi, I just wanted to follow up on this. Yes, we recorded the telephone appointment with a dual-tape recorder as required. My friend received their PIP decision and report. They are being downgraded, but I am helping them with the mandatory reconsideration request form, as what was written in the final report was factually incorrect from what happened in the appointment (no point in me getting into the details, but one part was especially incredulous). On top of this, they are also awaiting a Universal Credit telephone assessment, which has been cancelled twice. On both occasions, I had to take the day off work, and on both occasions, they didn't actually tell us it wasn't going ahead. This was just incredibly disrespectful in my opinion.

Anyway, the whole welfare system is not fit for purpose, and I am favouring a move towards some form UBI which would be a much more efficient manner of dealing with things. Obviously, this won't ever happen as there is zero political will for it... nor for just a more caring welfare state. the 2000s have a lot to answer for with regard to the demonisation of so-called "benefit scroungers", which the Labour government were happy to lean into (and then the Conservatives were never going to to anything but that).

 

[iona]

I'm well aware of how shit the system is but just to add a little bit of hope and positivity for anyone being reassessed now/soon - I had a phone reassessment last month, heard back within three weeks and they've actually given me more money than I was getting before, for the next four years.

 

[InArduisFouette]

I'm well aware of how shit the system is but just to add a little bit of hope and positivity for anyone being reassessed now/soon - I had a phone reassessment last month, heard back within three weeks and they've actually given me more money than I was getting before, for the next four years.

Glad to hear that, well prepared people often find this to be the case

with PIP the key is often to know the criteria and make sure your answers give the report writer and then consequently the DWP lay person decision maker no room ot not award the points

the other piece of advice I have heard, that works is set a 'bad' day as your norm in the mind of the assessor

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Hi, I just wanted to follow up on this. Yes, we recorded the telephone appointment with a dual-tape recorder as required. My friend received their PIP decision and report. They are being downgraded, but I am helping them with the mandatory reconsideration request form, as what was written in the final report was factually incorrect from what happened in the appointment (no point in me getting into the details, but one part was especially incredulous). On top of this, they are also awaiting a Universal Credit telephone assessment, which has been cancelled twice. On both occasions, I had to take the day off work, and on both occasions, they didn't actually tell us it wasn't going ahead. This was just incredibly disrespectful in my opinion.

Anyway, the whole welfare system is not fit for purpose, and I am favouring a move towards some form UBI which would be a much more efficient manner of dealing with things. Obviously, this won't ever happen as there is zero political will for it... nor for just a more caring welfare state. the 2000s have a lot to answer for with regard to the demonisation of so-called "benefit scroungers", which the Labour government were happy to lean into (and then the Conservatives were never going to to anything but that).

how is your friend and their case doing?

 

[Eric Jarvis]

I thought for recording it there was a requirement that you make two copies of the recording at the same time so they can have one. (Or is that just the physical interview?) - I remember a Liverpool disability charity fund-raising to make "double recorders" so they could lend them to people attending interviews.

I've supported a few people through these - both by phone and in person - and it's always really shite. Even if the assessor has actually read the submission it is tough on the person being assessed because they have to present their worst self to someone who may be hostile.

If you haven't already got a copy, Disability Rights UK have an excellent benefits guide that covers things like the PIP questions, how they are scored, and how to appeal a wrong decision.

Also the DWP's guidelines for decision makers and assessors are available online. Be warned. There's 60 pages of the stuff, so comparing it to your medical evidence and the assessors report and the final decision is a royal pain in the proverbials. However it is a document the DWP cant't argue against as they produced it.

 

[Eric Jarvis]

Hi, I just wanted to follow up on this. Yes, we recorded the telephone appointment with a dual-tape recorder as required. My friend received their PIP decision and report. They are being downgraded, but I am helping them with the mandatory reconsideration request form, as what was written in the final report was factually incorrect from what happened in the appointment (no point in me getting into the details, but one part was especially incredulous). On top of this, they are also awaiting a Universal Credit telephone assessment, which has been cancelled twice. On both occasions, I had to take the day off work, and on both occasions, they didn't actually tell us it wasn't going ahead. This was just incredibly disrespectful in my opinion.

Anyway, the whole welfare system is not fit for purpose, and I am favouring a move towards some form UBI which would be a much more efficient manner of dealing with things. Obviously, this won't ever happen as there is zero political will for it... nor for just a more caring welfare state. the 2000s have a lot to answer for with regard to the demonisation of so-called "benefit scroungers", which the Labour government were happy to lean into (and then the Conservatives were never going to to anything but that).

Next thing to note. While there is no time limit on how long they can take over a mandatory reconsideration, after 6 months you can demand they "escalate" your case, at which point it is given to a different office. I got that from the Tribunals Service, the DWP won't tell you about it. It took the Bolton office a whole 4 hours to decide that the ending of my UC claim, that the Wolverhampton office had been failing to make a decision on for 6 months, was entirely bogus.

 

[Silas Loom]

Also the DWP's guidelines for decision makers and assessors are available online. Be warned. There's 60 pages of the stuff, so comparing it to your medical evidence and the assessors report and the final decision is a royal pain in the proverbials. However it is a document the DWP cant't argue against as they produced it.

You mean this?

PIP assessment guide part 1: the assessment process

www.gov.uk

Useful document. Contains some flawed bear trap assumptions about activities and revealed capability (crossword puzzles require “manual dexterity”, apparently, which is news to anyone who does them online) which it’s good to be forewarned on. I wonder, though, whether individual providers maintain their own lists of supposed zingers and refresh them regularly.

 

[Eric Jarvis]

You mean this?

PIP assessment guide part 1: the assessment process

www.gov.uk

Useful document. Contains some flawed bear trap assumptions about activities and revealed capability (crossword puzzles require “manual dexterity”, apparently, which is news to anyone who does them online) which it’s good to be forewarned on. I wonder, though, whether individual providers maintain their own lists of supposed zingers and refresh them regularly.

I'm currently trying to put together a mandatory reconsideration case for being denied my enhanced rate PIP in which the assessors report and the final decision quite clearly have gone against the DWPs guidelines in at least 3 incidences. It's useful because at least some of the assessors and decision makers clearly haven't read it.