ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
That you played along with it, you mean?
Phelps vs. Bolt
- Thread starter Diamond
- Start date
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Good attempt to tailor your answer so that it applied only to me, though, and it only took you about 20 minutes to do it.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
No, no it isn't. You may be confusing it with macho posturing as opposed to actual sports talk.Don't discuss sports much? Sports talk is all about the stats.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
No, no it isn't. You may be confusing it with macho posturing as opposed to actual sports talk.
Whatever. In my opinion, Phelps is the much more accomplished athlete, standing head and shoulders above Bolt and most others.
You disagree. There's not much more to be said between us on the issue, is there?
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
It depends what you're trying to measure, and how you're trying to measure it. And yes, we'll disagree - but a debating style which consists of "this is my opinion and I'm right regardless" is just boring. As may have been mentioned to you before.Whatever. In my opinion, Phelps is the much more accomplished athlete, standing head and shoulders above Bolt and most others.
You disagree. There's not much more to be said between us on the issue, is there?
Phelps was a butterfly phenom in 1996 - but he wasn't as far ahead in his event as Bolt is now, in his first Olympics. Do we value sheer natural talent, or sheer hard work - or both, in what proportion?
Phelps has worked stupidly hard to become as good at freestyle, and improve his breast-stroke enough to bag the medleys. That's an extraordinary achievement - taking a lot of talent and a useful physiology, working bloody hard and going further than any swimmer has ever gone. But Spitz and Thorpe and others have been at a similar level of dominance before him (because swimming is like that). And seven WRs means nothing in swimming this year - most will be broken by the next Olympics once the suit technology has settled in.
Bolt has done better than any sprinter in forever in getting the double - at his first Olympics. And he's miles ahead - there's no such thing as a close finish for Bolt, he's just not touchable in the foreseeable future. He will probably become the bigger legend on sheer performance - if he ever gets around to doing any training. that is - but athletics tends to foster legends, so he'll probably never have to work as hard as Phelps to achieve that status. I hope he does work as hard as Phelps, because it would be phenomenal to see him run at full power. He could invent the sprint triple if he developed some stamina.
EDIT: Diamond has pointed out it was Bolt's second Olympics - apologies for the error.
Carl Lewis would have finished nowhere near Bolt in that 100m final, and the thing with sprinting is that it is all about that 100m. You win that, and you are the World's Fastest Man. And Bolt is a faster one. Much faster.
Sure Lewis did great but he doesn't even have any records left! Bolt has two of them.
Michael Johnson, a man not prone to hyberbole in the slightest, predicts when Bolt runs the 100m as fast as he can, the record will never be broken - that says it all really.
maybe in north america. but its certainly not ALL about the stats in Europe. that's an idiotic thing to say.Don't discuss sports much? Sports talk is all about the stats.
If I may be allowed to make a contribution to the discussion in spite of Johnny's announcement that there is no point and that we should confine ourselves to shouting out numbers...
... I have written elsewhere about my disdain for the number of similar events open to the swimmers. It is absolutely the norm that the top swimmers get at least two golds -- I posted the stats up in another thread previously. So if you do want to talk numbers, I suggest that you mentally take my approach, which is start any comparison by halving the medal count of the swimmers. If you do that, you are assigning four golds to Phelps, which makes him one of the truly great Olympians (as he undoubtledly is), on a par with the likes of Carl Lewis. But it eliminates this ridiculous situation where a swimmer will always be the final word.
My view is actually that the true greats are the ones that manage to achieve gold in many successive Olympic games, regardless of number (which is really just a function of how many events are available to you). By this measure, Steve Redgrave would outdo both Bolt and Phelps. But there was a Hungarian (I think) shooter who spanned the war who won something like six golds and probably would have won eight had the war not got in the way. He probably takes my prize, even though I've forgotten his name and almost all details about him. Ain't fame fickle?
... I have written elsewhere about my disdain for the number of similar events open to the swimmers. It is absolutely the norm that the top swimmers get at least two golds -- I posted the stats up in another thread previously. So if you do want to talk numbers, I suggest that you mentally take my approach, which is start any comparison by halving the medal count of the swimmers. If you do that, you are assigning four golds to Phelps, which makes him one of the truly great Olympians (as he undoubtledly is), on a par with the likes of Carl Lewis. But it eliminates this ridiculous situation where a swimmer will always be the final word.
My view is actually that the true greats are the ones that manage to achieve gold in many successive Olympic games, regardless of number (which is really just a function of how many events are available to you). By this measure, Steve Redgrave would outdo both Bolt and Phelps. But there was a Hungarian (I think) shooter who spanned the war who won something like six golds and probably would have won eight had the war not got in the way. He probably takes my prize, even though I've forgotten his name and almost all details about him. Ain't fame fickle?
internetstalker
Get naked!
you say reach perfection? but Bolt has only just started, he's what 22? He's got another 7+ years to reach peak!
This isn't his first olympics, he was there in Athens.
Why do you think he doesn't do any training? Just because he has an easy running style, unpumped muscles and a relaxed trackside nature doesn't mean that he's lazy.
Good suggestion but even before that I would suggest taking the relay medals (and this would work for Bolt too if he wins one tonight) out of the equation. If you look at that incredible 4x100m freestyle relay that the Yanks won, it's clear that Josh Lezak made the difference, not Phelps.
And maybe to clarify further I'm talking about this olympics alone, not prior achievements. Imagine yourself as the head of the BOA around summer 2007.
Both Phelps and Bolt are seeking political asylum in the UK thanks to persecution resulting from deeply held political beliefs that are odds with their respective nations (say communism and gay rights...they insist in competing in red and pink or something like that).
There's uproar from Middle England along Rusedski-esque lines about the dilution of Team GB's bulldog spirit so you can only choose one for the 2008 Olympics. With the benefit of hindsight who would you go for?
internetstalker
Get naked!
In this hypothesis it HAS to be Bolt!, he's young, 22 and an athlete that could go on until 30.
Phelps although he's only 23, that is reasonably old for a swimmer!
Kanda
Diving wanker
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
I think if we add to that, until the drug tests show positive, then i think we have a pretty accurate summary.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Really? I apologise - I didn't think he was.
It's a flippant turn of phrase, but it's a comment on his claim to be sleeping in and living off chicken nuggets in the run up to his races. He looked tired at the end of the 200m - if he took the training seriously enough to think about nutrition and routine as well ...
ETA: Thanks Kanda!
A reporter asks the world's fastest man what he has for breakfast, an important question because, as nutritionists are forever telling you, breakfast is the most important meal of the day.
"I never have breakfast," Usain Bolt says.
There goes the Wheaties box.
Maybe the problem is simply scheduling. Bolt sleeps in until 11, after the breakfast bars have shut down.
The Jamaican sprinter gets up, watches a couple of hours of TV, then eats lunch.
"Some nuggets," he says.
Chicken nuggets.
Goes back to his room after lunch and naps because, well, he's been up since 11.
Gets up after a couple hours, thinks about eating and makes his decision:
"Get some more nuggets."
With the only hindsight we have, we'd have to go for the 2008 medal count and choose Phelps. If we're allowed foresight ... which GB team needs more of a kick up the ass, swimming or athletics?
