Phelps vs. Bolt
- Thread starter Diamond
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TrippyLondoner
Well-Known Member
Gonna go with Bolt, just cause i enjoy watching him more than phelps.
Nougat
metalmonkey to the rescue
Hoy did fantastic but there's something more impressive about the fastest man in the water or on land. It's just a more pure measure of physical achievement.
The remarkable thing about Phelps is that he didn't race in the full LZR suit so technically he was at a disadvantage compared to his competitors.
Right now I can't decide between the three but Bolt's 100m was just so much fun to watch.
Having said that how could Phelps do the same...pretend to drown while powering to the finish?
The remarkable thing about Phelps is that he didn't race in the full LZR suit so technically he was at a disadvantage compared to his competitors.
Right now I can't decide between the three but Bolt's 100m was just so much fun to watch.
Having said that how could Phelps do the same...pretend to drown while powering to the finish?
twistedAM
Left Of The Dial
yep...should be in there
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Nobody outside of Britain and the small world of track cycling will have paid a blind bit of notice to Chris Hoy's undoubtedly impressive accomplishments. They wouldn't have paid too much attention to Phelps either if he'd won three golds.
Winning a few of the endless succession of near-identical to the uninitiated swimming, diving, rowing or track cycling events just doesn't matter all that much in the public consciousness. Unless the winner is from your country of course, in which case suddenly everyone becomes a lifelong fan of the Keirin.
Phelps transcends that "niche sport" factor through the sheer volume of wins. Hoy doesn't. Even Steve Redgrave didn't, let alone other rowers who racked up a few golds. And at least Olympic rowing is the apex of the sport. Track cycling is a bit of a backwater even within the world of cycling.
Track and field, and in particular events like the 100 meters, is a bit different. People actually hear about new world records and the like during the four years when the Olympics isn't on! Swimming, rowing, and to an ever greater extent track cycling, disappear back off to wherever sports nobody cares about hide when the Olympics aren't on. And I say this as someone who likes swimming and who loves watching the Tour de France.
Winning a few of the endless succession of near-identical to the uninitiated swimming, diving, rowing or track cycling events just doesn't matter all that much in the public consciousness. Unless the winner is from your country of course, in which case suddenly everyone becomes a lifelong fan of the Keirin.
Phelps transcends that "niche sport" factor through the sheer volume of wins. Hoy doesn't. Even Steve Redgrave didn't, let alone other rowers who racked up a few golds. And at least Olympic rowing is the apex of the sport. Track cycling is a bit of a backwater even within the world of cycling.
Track and field, and in particular events like the 100 meters, is a bit different. People actually hear about new world records and the like during the four years when the Olympics isn't on! Swimming, rowing, and to an ever greater extent track cycling, disappear back off to wherever sports nobody cares about hide when the Olympics aren't on. And I say this as someone who likes swimming and who loves watching the Tour de France.
for what? I bet Phelps isn't all that in the 200m and Bolt is no more than middling in the pool.
We should get them both doing, I dunno, archery or summat. That'd sort it out
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
I suspect Bolt is cheating, will probably take 2 to 6 years before the drug is identified and retrospectively tied to one of his current blood samples, then its by by medals.
Phelps is clearly the man from atlantis - flipper feet and all that. So he is cheating too.
Has to be the eagle. A loser but an honest loser not a junky or a non-humanoid.
Phelps is clearly the man from atlantis - flipper feet and all that. So he is cheating too.
Has to be the eagle. A loser but an honest loser not a junky or a non-humanoid.
I don't buy the argument that Bolt's an obvious cheat. He just looks different when he's running, different style and that, same way that Michael Johnson was a freak.
What's more if there's some brilliant new wonder drug out there, I doubt the Jamaicans would be first to use it.
What's more if there's some brilliant new wonder drug out there, I doubt the Jamaicans would be first to use it.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Going for them how? Making a lunge?
Wikipedia on Phelps:
Wikipedia on Bolt:
Bolt's accomplishment isn't to be diminished, but he is not in the same league of achievement as Phelps. Bolt is still young, with lots of accomplishments ahead of him, but at this point, Phelps stands head and shoulders over almost everyone.
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
Silva
This went well.
The thing with Phelps is that swimming is not as popular as athletics, three of his medals were relay events, and there's more titles open for swimmers than there are to sprinters, so comparing just by numbers is pointless. Both beaten records, and while Phelps might have beaten them all, so did a lot of other athletes, unlike what happened at the athletics. It's easier to achieve results when you are a top athlete in swimming than it is at the athletics.
As for the doping thing, they're all innocent (at the eyes of the sporting law) until proven guilty. Just because Phelps signed on extra testing and Bolt didn't might mean he's completely clean as well as being confident there's no way to catch whatever he might be using - remember how, for instance, Lance Armstrong became so aggressive once a reporter suggested that his blood samples from early 2000s should be tested?
As for the doping thing, they're all innocent (at the eyes of the sporting law) until proven guilty. Just because Phelps signed on extra testing and Bolt didn't might mean he's completely clean as well as being confident there's no way to catch whatever he might be using - remember how, for instance, Lance Armstrong became so aggressive once a reporter suggested that his blood samples from early 2000s should be tested?
How come noone else ever has won 15 medals in two tournaments and 8 in one Olympics then?
Bolt is impressive, no doubt, probably the best sprinter ever, and how he makes it look so easy makes him even more impressive but Phelps is just ridiculous. He beat the best swimmers in the world at different swimming events every day for a week without having a day off
twistedAM
Left Of The Dial
...the biggest spectator event in the world.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Don't they have the running relays anymore?
Carl Lewis in Wikipedia:
When Bolt has this sort of record, and I'm sure he's capable of it, he'll begin to be in a position to be compared with Phelps.
Silva
This went well.
There's less two relay event in Athletics now for pure sprinters (the 4x200 is not on the olympics, and the 4 x 400 is a different game).
I'm not suggesting Phelps is not "superhuman". He's by far the best swimmer ever, but it's impossible to compare someone who has the chance to compete in 8 medals against someone with 3 just by their results. Each one of them has a limited number of chances to be in the spotlights - Phelps made a wonder every time, but until now, so did Bolt. If he bottles at the relay, then he loses that "Olympian" shine, and the biggest figure will be Phelps. Simple as this.
I mean, Isinbayeva only participated in two days of the Olympics in one event, but she will be one the highlights on the ladies' side of the Games, while I'm pretty sure that there's some Chinese 15-year old in the Gymnastics team that participated three or four days, won a couple of gold medals but few will talk about her.
I'm not suggesting Phelps is not "superhuman". He's by far the best swimmer ever, but it's impossible to compare someone who has the chance to compete in 8 medals against someone with 3 just by their results. Each one of them has a limited number of chances to be in the spotlights - Phelps made a wonder every time, but until now, so did Bolt. If he bottles at the relay, then he loses that "Olympian" shine, and the biggest figure will be Phelps. Simple as this.
I mean, Isinbayeva only participated in two days of the Olympics in one event, but she will be one the highlights on the ladies' side of the Games, while I'm pretty sure that there's some Chinese 15-year old in the Gymnastics team that participated three or four days, won a couple of gold medals but few will talk about her.
Ach, swimming medals don't count for as much. There are far more medal opportunities for each swimmer really, mainly by the mechanism of some affected strokes. The front crawl's logical enough, but what's the point of the butterfly - what human would really choose to travel by flapping their arms so ineffectually whilst doing some weirdo leg motion. And the breast stroke's a silly stroke too mainly, a shitter, camper way to get from A to B than the 'freestyle' (ie the fastest front crawl)
There's a certain integrity in sprinting and track running. Doing the 100 and 200metres is hard enough, the 200 and 400 a harder combo still. But you couldn't expect Bolt to seriously attempt a similar spread of medals as Phelps - he'd be running everything from 100 to 1500metres, vastly different events requiring different twitch muscles.
Perhaps the Olympics committee could come up with some events to even the score for the runners a little. Equivalents for the breast stroke, backstore, butterfly and all. You know, the backward run, the crab, the ministry of silly walks steppa challenge and that kind of thing.
There's a certain integrity in sprinting and track running. Doing the 100 and 200metres is hard enough, the 200 and 400 a harder combo still. But you couldn't expect Bolt to seriously attempt a similar spread of medals as Phelps - he'd be running everything from 100 to 1500metres, vastly different events requiring different twitch muscles.
Perhaps the Olympics committee could come up with some events to even the score for the runners a little. Equivalents for the breast stroke, backstore, butterfly and all. You know, the backward run, the crab, the ministry of silly walks steppa challenge and that kind of thing.
Ach, swimming medals don't count for as much. There are far more medal opportunities for each swimmer really, mainly by the mechanism of some affected strokes. The front crawl's logical enough, but what's the point of the butterfly - what human would really choose to travel by flapping their arms so ineffectually whilst doing some weirdo leg motion. And the breast stroke's a silly stroke too mainly, a shitter, camper way to get from A to B than the 'freestyle' (ie the fastest front crawl)
There's a certain integrity in sprinting and track running. Doing the 100 and 200metres is hard enough, the 200 and 400 a harder combo still. But you couldn't expect Bolt to seriously attempt a similar spread of medals as Phelps - he'd be running everything from 100 to 1500metres, vastly different events requiring different twitch muscles.
Perhaps the Olympics committee could come up with some events to even the score for the runners a little. Equivalents for the breast stroke, backstore, butterfly and all. You know, the backward run, the crab, the ministry of silly walks steppa challenge and that kind of thing.
The 100m mince
Silva
This went well.
Like the 100m march ? that would probably be the most awkward thing to see - 8 manly blokes running in that weirdo kind of wayPerhaps the Olympics committee could come up with some events to even the score for the runners a little. Equivalents for the breast stroke, backstore, butterfly and all. You know, the backward run, the crab, the ministry of silly walks steppa challenge and that kind of thing.
Eric Heiden, did something like that - 5 medals (with 1WR and 5OR) in Lake Placid: 500m, 1000m, 1500m, 5000m and 10000m. When it comes to multiple-medal winning athletes, he's still my favourite.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
He did for the freestyle - just not for the butterfly. Don't recall which he used for the medleys. Lots didn't use them in the breaststroke either. It's (presumably) to do with which bits of the body you want to glide frictionlessly through the water and which bits need to grip it to pull you along. There's also an over-heating disadvantage, so the length of the race will be a factor in the decision too (but maybe not at the distances Phelps races).
As for the OP, there's not a lot of point comparing them really. For me, Phelps got there by sheer hard work - but lots of those WRs are because of the suit technology (in many races all three medallists broke the old WR). Bolt doesn't appear to train much at all but he's doing something very special with his technique - he's decades ahead on speed. Phelps is the "better" Olympian, but Bolt's talent is something quite extraordinary.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
He Kexin, IIRC. She was fabulous all the way through.
David Davies last night gave the most impressive performance of the whole games, IMO.
And the 8 medals thing is largely meaningless for comparisons with non-swimmers. The only other competitors in the olympics who could achieve that are the male (but not female) gymnasts - and they'd only have one team gold in that, plus one overall and six individual apparatus medals. That's a much harder 8 medals than Phelps got.
If Bolt manages to get up to 400m and got relays in all 3 distances, he'd still have to take on the long AND either triple or high jumps to make 8 medals possible.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Well yes. Road cycling is where it's at in the sport, track cycling, rightly or wrongly, is a relative backwater.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Maybe it is an impossible thing to do: but it's what the op asked us to do, and I made an attempt.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
That's our Johnny. Never one to be deterred by the obvious idiocy of making the attempt.Maybe it is an impossible thing to do: but it's what the op asked us to do, and I made an attempt.
The windsurfers had to do 11 races - equivalent to running 10k 11 times in a couple of weeks - for a single gold. But we should still measure Olympian greatness by the medal count.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Dude. Hate to tell you this, but ymu thinks you're an idiot.
And I guess that goes for anyone who attempted to make the idiotic distinction, and voted in the poll.
