Peter Crouch joins the Dulwich Hamlet board
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tonysingh
Random Clever and Witty Strapline
Some supporters got their photo taken with a real life celebrity innit.
Al Cunningham
Brockley Hamlet
Enjoyed number 4 in the Discovery series released today . Primarily about the women's team and Bury FC
jonesyboyo
Well-Known Member
Enjoyed the episode, and like the big fella.
So... has he presented his season evaluation /recommendations as yet, as mentioned he would at the fans forum?
So... has he presented his season evaluation /recommendations as yet, as mentioned he would at the fans forum?
editor
hiraethified
We're certainly still waiting for his answers to the questions fans posed on the official forum some six months ago.
Al Cunningham
Brockley Hamlet
Just watched episode 5 . Very interesting mainly about sponsorship which shows the hard work particularly from Clare Keeble and good contribution from Crouch. Also with hint of episide 6 appears to show the new sponsor on front of shirt for next season. Dont think the club have announced that yet .
Love Clare.
tonysingh
Random Clever and Witty Strapline
Don't keep us in suspenders FFS. Who is the new sponsor?
episode 6 is the final one I think? Has there been mention of Mishi yet?Al Cunningham
Brockley Hamlet
8 episodes. Very little on the mens team lately. Last action shown brief highlights of Ebbsfleet 5-2 win. We should all be grateful for Clare Keeble who seems to do the work of many people. Well as it is in the public domain The hint appeared to show " Defected" being designed on the front of the shirt. But not shown in any context of when this was happening as the series seems to switch berween times during the season
Al Cunningham
Brockley Hamlet
Episode 6 is very good . Mostly centred on the TRUK game and search for training ground. Really displays the dedication and passion of Ben, Paula and Clare and Peter Crouch, who really appears to putting his all into helping the club. Great credit to them all and also showing what a great club we have
Paula_G
Flitting in & out like Tinkerbell on Meth
Quite emotional watching that and pretty special to hear things said about myself on camera that I’ve rarely heard said to myself in 30+ years at the club.
Paula_G
Flitting in & out like Tinkerbell on Meth
I wrote this on Discord recently after watching the Trans Day of Visibility game episode and a couple of subsequent ones though not the last. Copying and pasting before that medium croaks its last.
Its a bit all over the place in terms of continuity viz Sanchez Ming talking about his injury which he’d sustained in preseason at Carshalton as if it happened in the run in. And sticking with comedy double act of Tricky & Dom Reid is seriously
! Having two cis men saying how wonderful the TDOV match was when I don’t recall either of them being at the game. That said I thought Danny was wonderful. From a personal point of view there were a lot of the parts of my “journey” left on the cutting floor but hearing compliments from Peter, Ben and Sophie on there that I’ve not heard from too many people in 30+ years with Dulwich Hamlet was incredibly emotional. Quite fun too and affirming as well as I definitely seem to get younger as the programme progresses. Plus that comment from Abbie Clancy gets me giggling 
every time I view it. It’s good to see we’re moving on to attainable goals such as a training ground , an academy and Save Grassroots Football not pie in the sky 
like “Rock’n’’Roll Football” 
. That was frankly f
king embarrassing! If there is to be a second series than it has to move away from the boardroom and start focusing on real fans & not just Dulwich but across grassroots, the game played by men, women and everyone else
Its a bit all over the place in terms of continuity viz Sanchez Ming talking about his injury which he’d sustained in preseason at Carshalton as if it happened in the run in. And sticking with comedy double act of Tricky & Dom Reid is seriously
! Having two cis men saying how wonderful the TDOV match was when I don’t recall either of them being at the game. That said I thought Danny was wonderful. From a personal point of view there were a lot of the parts of my “journey” left on the cutting floor but hearing compliments from Peter, Ben and Sophie on there that I’ve not heard from too many people in 30+ years with Dulwich Hamlet was incredibly emotional. Quite fun too and affirming as well as I definitely seem to get younger as the programme progresses. Plus that comment from Abbie Clancy gets me giggling every time I view it. It’s good to see we’re moving on to attainable goals such as a training ground , an academy and Save Grassroots Football not pie in the sky like “Rock’n’’Roll Football” . That was frankly fking embarrassing! If there is to be a second series than it has to move away from the boardroom and start focusing on real fans & not just Dulwich but across grassroots, the game played by men, women and everyone else
Paula_G
Flitting in & out like Tinkerbell on Meth
Written prior to the final episode which I have not yet had the chance to watch.
Being involved with Dulwich Hamlet on so many levels for so long it seems strange to watch a series that has never touched on our illustrious history, the decline and fall of the club before the revival under Gavin that probably kept us from vanishing into county football, that has failed to mention the Save Dulwich Hamlet campaign, that to my mind doesn’t seem to have criticised Meadow once (I may be wrong on that so please correct me if that is not the case), has never involved the Trust and has still not mentioned two of the most significant names of recent years, Mishi and Duncan. Yes there are times when it actually shows the viewer why “Dulwich Hamlet is different to any club I’ve known” (Peter’s words not mine) but a lot of the time this could be at any lower league or non league club.
Being involved with Dulwich Hamlet on so many levels for so long it seems strange to watch a series that has never touched on our illustrious history, the decline and fall of the club before the revival under Gavin that probably kept us from vanishing into county football, that has failed to mention the Save Dulwich Hamlet campaign, that to my mind doesn’t seem to have criticised Meadow once (I may be wrong on that so please correct me if that is not the case), has never involved the Trust and has still not mentioned two of the most significant names of recent years, Mishi and Duncan. Yes there are times when it actually shows the viewer why “Dulwich Hamlet is different to any club I’ve known” (Peter’s words not mine) but a lot of the time this could be at any lower league or non league club.
scousedom
Well-Known Member
Genuine question because I have never watched one, but… has any fly-on-the-wall football club documentary series ever been backward looking? In the slightest? Are they not all “right here right now”? Assuming so, was any production team ever going to make something going over the history of a Club that while interesting to those involved would not be to outsiders? Would they want to make a show about people they couldn’t interview?
I’m not saying that’s right by the way. The opposite in fact. Just that that’s how the production teams would think. This was never going to be an authoritative history of the club, which Crouch wasn’t involved in, it was always going to be centred on Crouch and therefore resolutely set in the (apparently made up at times) present.
I’m not saying that’s right by the way. The opposite in fact. Just that that’s how the production teams would think. This was never going to be an authoritative history of the club, which Crouch wasn’t involved in, it was always going to be centred on Crouch and therefore resolutely set in the (apparently made up at times) present.
Paula_G
Flitting in & out like Tinkerbell on Meth
Given the documentary is talking about the various pressures on the club that force us into the situation we find ourselves in, it’s worth giving at least some background to that. It’s not just because of the pandemic that Dulwich find themselves apparently struggling but because of a range of factors that include the behaviour of Meadow Residential who are still our landlords. This was sold as more than just a “fly on the wall” documentary but the opportunity to get across the Dulwich ethos to a wider audience. In some areas yes it has succeeded but in others there have been a plethora of missed opportunities. Whether this is down to a number of individuals who were not keen to be involved, especially the Trust who I don’t believe featured at all except as non-speaking extras, that may well be the case. That said I can think of a number of individuals who were keen to be involved yet were never spoken too.
editor
hiraethified
I don't know why anyone expected it to be any different. It was all about the pre-written Discovery template of 'football survival' and celeb presenter Crouch and they could have picked any club at our level.
They only picked Hamlet because we're seen as an eye catching trendy outfit, and shamefully the club were quite happy to evaporate some important principles in exchange.
: Dulwich Hamlet FC takes a stand against the betting industry
They only picked Hamlet because we're seen as an eye catching trendy outfit, and shamefully the club were quite happy to evaporate some important principles in exchange.
: Dulwich Hamlet FC takes a stand against the betting industry
I still haven't watched this series. However; I seem to remember it was marketed as Peter trying to save a non league club. Whilst not exactly factually accurate, the club would have made it through last season without the cameras, that angle surely meant they couldn't talk too much about the past. Peter couldn't save a club that Mishi, Duncan and others had already saved...
editor
hiraethified
I see Crouch is still being used as the brand ambassador for Paddy Power this season.
"Hi I'm going to pretend to join Dulwich Hamlet's board and do a lucrative, profile raising TV show for a pay-to-view channel"
"But hasn't the club come out strongly against the advertising of gambling services?"
"No problem for me! I'll just keep on doing what I like and let the fans worry about it"
"Double G&Ts all round!"
"Hi I'm going to pretend to join Dulwich Hamlet's board and do a lucrative, profile raising TV show for a pay-to-view channel"
"But hasn't the club come out strongly against the advertising of gambling services?"
"No problem for me! I'll just keep on doing what I like and let the fans worry about it"
"Double G&Ts all round!"
Paula_G
Flitting in & out like Tinkerbell on Meth
The documentary will be available on the Free To Air Quest (Freeview 12) from September. Given that it was originally planned as a major draw to push the Discovery+ app I’m not sure what exactly this implies. However this should allow anyone averse to paying for the app the opportunity to view & critique it here. Whether the club will publicise it then, which it does not seem keen to at the moment, we’ll have to wait and see.
tonysingh
Random Clever and Witty Strapline
editor
hiraethified
I wonder how many long term fans the club has lost by its association with this venture, starting from the dishonest announcement of Crouch's arrival at the club - and, in hindsight, whether it was worth it, especially as we apparently weren't paid anything for accommodating the TV crews.
Paula_G
Flitting in & out like Tinkerbell on Meth
Doubt whether we’ve actually lost any long term fans because of the documentary as I genuinely wonder how many Dulwich fans have actually seen it due to the club’s seeming reluctance to publicise the documentary. It’s barely been mentioned on the club’s social media channels or publicised through any other media. Whether this is down to previous erratic communications strategy by the club or a reluctance to acknowledge the documentary’s existence is another matter. I’ve actually had more people outside DHFC talk to me of this than within the club including a nurse at my TransPlus clinic referencing the episode where the Transgender Day of Visibility match featured.
AveryDave
Well-Known Member
Can't say I've ever kept much of an eye on match day sponsorship over the seasons, but record numbers of people through the gate whilst no-one wants to sponsor the match or the ball seems a bit weird? The club are still looking for sponsors for tomorrow and were in a similar position for the Braintree game, with the Dulwich Diverter stepping into the breach a few days before.
Absolutely nothing to back this up beyond connecting those potentially random dots, but could it be that a smaller number of long term fans who were willing to invest in the club have been replaced with a larger number of newer fans who are happy to pay for their ticket but not really interested in contributing anything more than that?
And a similar story with the 12th Man Scheme, where a once crucial contributor to the club's playing budget has been deemed less important in recent seasons, likely offset by the increase in attendance revenue?
Even if any of that is the case, the revenue associated to the sponsorships would soon get overtaken by hundreds more through the gate, so if it's a choice between the two it's probably pretty easy for the club to prioritise.
I'm sure the club would be happy to have 12th Man running still. My understanding is it is effectively in hibernation due to a lack of volunteers to run it, not due to the club. Obviously wages are a bit higher now than when it was established, it would make less of a difference now realistically as the same amount of money would go nowhere near as far.
I suspect the drop off in fans sponsoring match balls etc may be due to a rise in price as much as anything else. Back in my day it was often done by one person, these days pictures usually show a group of people. Throw in a cost of living crisis that is about to bite with a vengeance, new energy cap details due next week, and it's perhaps not surprising selling sponsorship is now more challenging.
I suspect the drop off in fans sponsoring match balls etc may be due to a rise in price as much as anything else. Back in my day it was often done by one person, these days pictures usually show a group of people. Throw in a cost of living crisis that is about to bite with a vengeance, new energy cap details due next week, and it's perhaps not surprising selling sponsorship is now more challenging.
editor
hiraethified
Oh I don't know. The Hamlet crowd seem a lot more affluent than many other clubs.
AveryDave
Well-Known Member
On the 12th Man scheme, the below from last year confirmed that the fall off of volunteers to run it was predicated by a few things - "the crowds swelled but not with the sort of people who would hand over money for nothing to help the club... As numbers grew to 2000+ the stand would simply get lost in a swarm of people, and when we occasionally explained to someone what we were doing the standard response would be 'why does a non league club getting gates like this expect me to hand over a cash donation?'" It's a bit misleading to say it's 'hibernation' is just due to a lack of volunteers without recognising the context behind that.
Also know the 12th Man is entirely separate from the club, but as the post mentioned an offer of help from the scheme was made to the chairman at the start of last season, but no response was received back. If it was still seen as an important contributor to the club's budget, or if the club would be happy to still have it running, surely that offer of help would have been responded to?
Can see your points on the worsening economic situation impacting people's ability to sponsor - always assumed the sponsorships were aimed more at companies and businesses (hence the groups of people), but like I said, not something I've really kept an eye on previously so happy to be told that assumption is entirely wrong - and even if not, can see how sponsoring a football match might not be top of companies lists of ways to spend money at the moment.
Hi all, Neil here - haven’t posted on Urban for a long time but was alerted to some chat on here about the 12th Man so thought I’d come on and reply.
Firstly, Burty is spot on - the 12th Man was set up as a fan led initiative to help DHFC through some hard times, and has never been run by the club. It was always entirely volunteer led, and has raised in excess of £80,000 for the club over eight years, always to fund specific additional players in times of need. I’ll always think back fondly of signings like Chico Ramos when big Phil got injured in the season‘s run-in, and of course Danny Carr when we had the chance of signing a young striker previously on the books at Reading, but the club couldn’t stretch the budget to meet his wages.
Eight years on from starting the initiative, it’s fair to say the club is in a very different place now and as a result I’m not sure the 12th Man has a place at this current time.
The 12th Man bucket, our most visible fund raiser, used to raise £200-300 on matchdays back in the days of the Ryman League from crowds of less than 1000. These were all pure donations, added to the bucket mostly in small change from fans that had been coming from years and saw the need for extra playing budget. As the crowds grew, donations fell, and in the season pre-COVID we were struggling to raise £100 a game. A few reasons for this in my opinion - firstly, the crowds swelled but not with the sort of people who would hand over money for nothing to help the club. As numbers grew to 2000+ the stand would simply get lost in a swarm of people, and when we occasionally explained to someone what we were doing the standard response would be “why does a non league club getting gates like this expect me to hand over a cash donation?”
We tried to move the focus from the bucket to selling items, like the excellent Unison card wallets, and various books donated by fans. However to be brutally honest there’s only so much you can make from 2nd hand Kevin Keegan biographies and it did give the stand something of a charity shop feel!
The other thing that has changed with the two promotions since we started the scheme is of course the professionalism (or semi-professionalism) of the club. In the Ryman South, a couple of hundred quid and went a long way to helping the playing budget. Without wanting to disclose any numbers, in the National South, um, not so much.
The 12th Man bank account is still there and I will continue to monitor the finances, and I would like to say a big thank you at this point to everyone that still contributes by standing order. I guarantee that every penny raised will continue to be used as it was intended - to help with the playing budget in times of real need. But from the contributors I have spoken to, we generally agree, that time is not now - especially as an offer of help I made to the chairman at the start of the season did not even garner a reply.
Happy to chat if anyone is serious about wanting the scheme to continue this season, but it does seem like some of the comments above have been made without any real understanding of what the 12th Man is or any of the issues we’ve faced in recent seasons.
Apologies for the long post, but hope that has provided some helpful context!
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Some are, some aren't..All the available evidence suggests that's been the case for north of a century.
Debt advisory services are reporting a surge in calls from people earning north of £100k p.a. as people tend to get used to spending what they earn.
I go back to 1991, back then player sponsorships, match ball sponsorships were priced for both fans and businesses owned by fans. I may be wrong but I suspect things have changed.
Debt advisory services are reporting a surge in calls from people earning north of £100k p.a. as people tend to get used to spending what they earn.
Honestly I don't know. My memory is Neil and Shaun appealed for someone to take 12th Man on but no-one did. I may be wrong, I now live in Hampshire and am not dialled in to day to day events. I accept the 12th Man stand got a bit lost in the crowds. I do recall causing a row by signing the last South London football history booklet I wrote to fund 12th Man over to Fisher as 12th Man had no-one to sell it and I live in Hampshire so couldn't turn up week after week to sell it. (Not a big loss, it wasn't about DHFC and DHFC stuff had declining sales - why you don't see any now. Fisher probably made £400 - £500 over several months. Pretty irrelevant at this level.)
I go back to 1991, back then player sponsorships, match ball sponsorships were priced for both fans and businesses owned by fans. I may be wrong but I suspect things have changed.
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