Palm: Pre, webOS & app discussion

[editor]

If it's got a SD slot then the win-o-meter has simply gone off the scale and this won't be an iPhone killa. It'll be a D3str0ya!

 

[UnderOpenSky]

It would seem a huge thing to leave out and can't cost much to add.

Roll on 32gb MicroSD...

35gb would be a good amount for a music collection, couldn't get my whole lot on, but most the stuff I might want to listen to whilst out and about.

All of this will be useless though if it doesn't have a headphone jack.

 

[editor]

All of this will be useless though if it doesn't have a headphone jack.

It has a 3.5mm jack on the top.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

If it's got a SD slot then the win-o-meter has simply gone off the scale and this won't be an iPhone killa. It'll be a D3str0ya!

Steady on old chap!

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Will teach me to read better.

Has Palm normally been tied to a few networks or do we stand a chance of getting this across the board? I was very tempted by a Touch HD over xmas, but couldn't quite bring myself to sign the contract with so many new options available this year.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Will teach me to read better.

Has Palm normally been tied to a few networks or do we stand a chance of getting this across the board? I was very tempted by a Touch HD over xmas, but couldn't quite bring myself to sign the contract with so many new options available this year.

Eh, it's not even out in the US yet, so I wouldn't expect to get it over here for quite a few months.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Ah sounds good. 24 gigs would make this a serious contender for replacing the iPod. Now let's here some good news about the battery (havent heard anything about its power yet)...

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Eh, it's not even out in the US yet, so I wouldn't expect to get it over here for quite a few months.

I meant based on past phones like the Treo, have they been available across all networks or just carried by a couple?

 

[Private Storm]

Ah sounds good. 24 gigs would make this a serious contender for replacing the iPod.

They've updated the Engadget page to read:

Update: Apparently someone got their wires seriously crossed at our meeting. The Pre does not have a microSD slot -- which is kind of a disappointment.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Do you think if enough people make a fuss now they will change it before the finished one comes out?

 

[Sunray]

The Picsel viewer on my 2004 Sony Clie is very similar: it lets me smoothly drag and flick objects and text around the screen, with a bigger flick resulting in it moving faster, and a slower flick moving the item slower.

If prior use can be proved then the patent application is dismissed. The flick scrolling is 2007? Don't know how long it takes to get approval, probably ages, those are patent applications, can't sue until a patent gets approved.

Maybe the rest of the world is making hay while Apple waits, no problem from me.

 

[editor]

Here's a lively article from an iPhone site. There's no denying that Palm have had a good rifle through Apple's iPhone for ideas, but I really don't agree with the form factor claim.

The Pre is nothing like the iPhone, apart from the fact that they both have a big screen on the front - but then so did the Sony Clie and the Lifedrive years ago.

What the Palm Pre Stole from the iPhone… and What the iPhone Should Steal From the Pre
http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/01/13/palm-pre-stole-iphone-iphone-steal-pre/

Some good user comments too:

As iPhone users, I don’t see any reason we can’t all acknowledge that Palm probably has a winner on their hands. It’s a great looking device. The software looks phenomenal. And it offfers something to power users that the iPhone does not: a physical keyboard and a removable battery.
Also, it is in OUR best interest for Palm to succeed with this new phone, because it will push Apple to update and improve the iPhone platform (something they are probably already doing anyway).

 

[editor]

Here's a Pandora developer who's worked on the webOS talking about the platform:

Well, I think one of the important little nuances here to understand is that you might think from the name "webOS" and from the technologies used – HTML and CSS and Javascript – you might think that this is the whole thing, just kind of a fancy web browser, and that you're – y'know, any interaction you take is interacting with web content.

That's really not how it works at all. What you really have, is that you have an environment where a developer can write a traditional application – so, an application that gets installed onto the phone with all its code and all of its user interface elements and that is actually local to the phone.

There's also a database and file storage that allows you to take data from the internet connection and store it locally – so when you're browsing your contacts, for example, you're interacting with an application that's local to the phone, with interface elements that are local to the phone and with contacts that are actually sitting on the phone.

What makes it this "webOS" is that the programming models for your developer rather than being C or Java is really just HTML and CSS and Javascript. So you can take a developer who's been developing web applications and quickly get them productive in the webOS SDK, leveraging their familiarity with these web-based standards.

And that decision is one of the reasons we were able to get, very very quickly, a version of Pandora up and running. We were able to take one of our star web developers – someone who has never touched the Palm webOS and not done mobile development before – and have that person be immediately productive because it's all based on systems that they're familiar with from web development.

More here: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9685/interview-with-pandora-about-developing-for-webos/

 

[Kid_Eternity]

You know I think it's way past time we all got past the 'who stole what from who' bollox. That shit's for the lawyers.

I don't care if the Pre ripped off the iPhone or vice versa as long as I get the best possible smartphone for my needs.

 

[tarannau]

I think Palm's hoping its ex Apple connections save it a little grief on rips like the multitouch gestures and animations.

The downside is that a legal battle's far more likely to kill off Palm than anything else. Apple could get paid for every Pre sold as well as every iphone unless Palm have a good case.

 

[Structaural]

If it's got a SD slot then the win-o-meter has simply gone off the scale and this won't be an iPhone killa. It'll be a D3str0ya!

Nah, the iphone is nearly two years old, I'm surprised it's taken this long for a decent contender to come along. A processor and memory update to the iPhone and some serious app updates will move the goalposts again. It wouldn't even exist if the iPhone hadn't come along... and certainly not in it's current form.

I'm quietly impressed with the Pre though - nice phone, nice OS (though you can see the iPhone influence and they should have gone for a higher resolution screen). I'll be interested in battery life with that fast processor and background tasking, though the removable battery should help there...

 

[Structaural]

I think Palm's hoping its ex Apple connections save it a little grief on rips like the multitouch gestures and animations.

The downside is that a legal battle's far more likely to kill off Palm than anything else. Apple could get paid for every Pre sold as well as every iphone unless Palm have a good case.

I don't think they should be able to patent multi-touch - any more than double-click or flick scrolling. I hope they do take someone to court and lose.
We've seen this technology for ages on the massive touch screens and anyone should be able to use it.

 

[tarannau]

FWIW my understanding is that Palm's multitouch isn't markedly different from Apple's. I can understand a corp aiming to use multitouch in a similar fashion, but the view is that Palm have used largely identical gestures and motions to Apple's UI - pinching for zooming and the like. That's going to be harder to pass off as accidental, especially when you've ex-Apple folk like Rubenstein (ex head of Ipod division) at Palm.

Not sure if litigation is on the way, but it'd be a surprise if Apple doesn't look back to the lawyers.

 

[g force]

But a legal battle is just as potentially damaging to Apple...being seen to bully people just because it can't handle a decent competitive phone being on the market. I seriously doubt the Palm people would be so dumb as to have not read the patents and found a work around. That is after all why you pay such stupidly high fees to your legal counsel team!

 

[editor]

Nah, the iphone is nearly two years old,..

Eh? The iPhone 3G was launched in July 2008.

FWIW my understanding is that Palm's multitouch isn't markedly different from Apple's. I can understand a corp aiming to use multitouch in a similar fashion, but the view is that Palm have used largely identical gestures and motions to Apple's UI - pinching for zooming and the like.

It'll be interesting to see just how much Apple can claim. My five year old Sony Clie had gesture flicking and an inertia scroll identical to the iPhones, so Apple certainly can't claim to have come up with that.

I can't imagine Palm would be so naive as to blatantly rip something off without ensuring that they have the right to use it, but with Apple's vast pots of cash and highly litigious 'slap 'em down' attitude, I wouldn't be surprised if they launched a legal case anyway - regardless of the strength of their case. It's a great way to nobble the opposition.

The Creative v Apple case is an interesting reference.
http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/3339/4363/creative-sue-apple-patent-infringement.phtml

 

[Crispy]

1.5 years since release, 2 since announcement.

 

[Structaural]

Eh? The iPhone 3G was launched in July 2008.

Yeah but the essential tech and look and feel was established with the original iPhone keynote in Jan 2007. So any vendor has had since then to be influenced. So Palm coming along two years later with an iPhone 'killa' isn't that big a deal.

 

[Lazy Llama]

The Creative v Apple case is an interesting reference.

That ended in Apple paying Creative $100M. $100M would be a lot of money for Palm to fork out right now.

Things haven't gone well for Creative since then. Last year they halved their workforce, and in Q3 alone they lost $32M

 

[editor]

Yeah but the essential tech and look and feel was established with the original iPhone keynote in Jan 2007.

If, as you say, the iPhone 3G was fundamentally an identical phone to the one released 1.5 years ago, then perhaps it's great news for iPhone fans that the Pre has come along to shake up Apple with a fresh design and superb UI that, frankly, makes their phone look a little outdated.

I only wish other companies had been capable of doing the same. Competition is good for consumers, while a single all-powerful, rival-crushing market leader is not.

 

[Structaural]

I only wish other companies had been capable of doing the same. Competition is good for consumers while a single all-powerful, rival-crushing market leader is not.

I agree, isn't it good Apple exists or Windows would be even worse than it is now?

 

[editor]

I agree, isn't it good Apple exists or Windows would be even worse than it is now?

Absolutely. Apple did wonders for the design and usability of smartphones, but their control-freakery sucks.

 

[Structaural]

Absolutely. Apple did wonders for the design and usability of smartphones, but their control-freakery sucks.

Yep, it is rather excessive. Hopefully all this competition will temper that somewhat.
The main thing that impresses me about the Palm is background processes, if that doesn't make it into the next version of the iPhone I'll be moving on...

 

[editor]

Yep, it is rather excessive. Hopefully all this competition will temper that somewhat.
The main thing that impresses me about the Palm is background processes, if that doesn't make it into the next version of the iPhone I'll be moving on...

If it works as well as we've seen, their multi tasking solution and interface is nothing short of brilliant.

 

[Crispy]

I'd be interested to see how it handles running out of ram...

 

[editor]

I'd be interested to see how it handles running out of ram...

I imagine it'll just get slower and slower like WM, although all the hands-on previews have commented that it seemed pretty slick even with multiple cards open.