Palm: Pre, webOS & app discussion

[editor]

Palm's approach to contact management really sounds genius:

Synergy has a feature called "linked contacts." It offers a single view that links contacts from the various e-mail and social-networking platforms you use. For example, if you have the same contact listed in your Outlook, Google and Facebook accounts, Synergy recognizes they're the same person, links the information, and presents it to you as one listing.

If you update a contact on your webOS device, it will also will be updated in your various accounts, whether on a personal computer or on the Web.
Synergy also offers layered calendars. You can view events for work, family, friends, sports teams, or other interests in one view or see them individually at a glance.

And combined messaging lets you see all your conversations with the same person in a chat-style view, even if it started in an instant message and you want to reply with text messaging. You can also see who's active in a buddy list.

And the pundits are impressed:

According to Michael Gartenberg, vice president of mobile strategy at Jupitermedia, Synergy is the most interesting aspect of the Pre and it demonstrates Palm's understanding of what people want in a mobile platform: The ability to consolidate different information stores across the various parts of their lives -- business and personal.

"Synergy seems to do a pretty good job consolidating all of my contact information into one entry," Gartenberg said. "This idea of centrally synchronizing and organizing contact information in this way is kind of revolutionary, something that no one has done before. The key is good synchronization. If you control the synchronization of these data stores, in many ways you control the world."
http://tech.yahoo.com/news/nf/20090112/tc_nf/64007

 

[Lazy Llama]

I wonder if someone will create a similar calendar/addressbook app for Windows/Linux/OS X.
Seems strange that no one has already done it.

 

[editor]

I wonder if someone will create a similar calendar/addressbook app for Windows/Linux/OS X.
Seems strange that no one has already done it.

You can guarantee that Apple, Microsoft, Android, Uncle Tom Cobley and all will be busy trying to rip off the idea in double quick time, so Palm better get a move on.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

You can guarantee that Apple, Microsoft, Android, Uncle Tom Cobley and all will be busy trying to rip off the idea in double quick time, so Palm better get a move on.

A fiver says there's an app on the Android marketplace within a couple of months

 

[Kid_Eternity]

A fiver says there's an app on the Android marketplace within a couple of months

Heh yep.

 

[Sunray]

You can guarantee that Apple, Microsoft, Android, Uncle Tom Cobley and all will be busy trying to rip off the idea in double quick time, so Palm better get a move on.

Palm have ripped the multi-touch capacitive screen from Apple. They must be paying Apple for its use because Apple have a patent on that and it couldn't be clearer.

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph...&RS=AN/Apple+AND+TTL/"Multipoint+touchscreen"

They patented the fuck out of some of the tech on the iPhone

The gestures like pinch zooming and that nice flick scrolling are also patented by Apple.

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph...AND+TTL/Gestures&RS=AN/Apple+AND+TTL/Gestures

Again, unlike some patents, its pretty clear.

Take from this site

http://www.unwiredview.com/2007/01/16/apples-iphone-is-it-really-well-protected-by-patents/

I wonder if Apple will actually go down the protectionist route, or introduce a better device or both?

 

[editor]

Palm have ripped the multi-touch capacitive screen from Apple. They must be paying Apple for its use because Apple have a patent on that and it couldn't be

Well, I don't think you can actually say that for sure without knowing more about the Palm or its technology - for all you (or me) know they might have patented something similar years ago - or maybe they are licensing it from Apple.

But there's nothing wrong with phones nicking ideas off each other - Apple swiped stuff like the threaded SMS and on/off ringer from Palm and I'm delighted to see Palm nicking great stuff from Apple. It's all good for the consumer in the end, isn't it?

 

[editor]

There's a very good full overview of the Palm Pre here:

http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/2009/01/little-things-a.html

The phone also scooped three awards at CES, including the top 'Best of CES' award.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

There's a very good full overview of the Palm Pre here:

http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/2009/01/little-things-a.html

That's an excellent piece. Almost could be the basis for the wiki article...

 

[Sunray]

Well, I don't think you can actually say that for sure without knowing more about the Palm or its technology - for all you (or me) know they might have patented something similar years ago - or maybe they are licensing it from Apple.

But there's nothing wrong with phones nicking ideas off each other - Apple swiped stuff like the threaded SMS and on/off ringer from Palm and I'm delighted to see Palm nicking great stuff from Apple. It's all good for the consumer in the end, isn't it?

Well, yes, but if you have an idea and want to make money from it, then surely you'd like to protect your idea from others if they are using it in direct competition to your own company. If someone rips off Urban75.com your going to get a tad miffed.

I'm not going to get into a debate on the pro's and con's of intellectual property because there are pro's and con's, and thats not the point I was trying to make.

My point is more that Apple have a pretty serious legal team and aren't afraid to use it. I would hope that Palm have sorted all the IP out with respect to the Pre because it is a great phone and I'd like to see it released and not get entangled into a bitter patent wrangle. If that were to happen, it could kill off the Phone and potentially Palm with it.

 

[paolo]

A fiver says there's an app on the Android marketplace within a couple of months

I doubt it.

The key thing here is that it's an implementation of a core service. These things are incredibly difficult for a 3rd party developer to deliver or replace.

If it was 'real' open source, it would be more possible, but I've not seen any distro type thing going on for Android, and suspect in practical terms it's not actually open source in the same way Linux is.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Palm's approach to contact management really sounds genius:And the pundits are impressed:

The important part of this is how the APIs are organised.

If there's a public API to interact with this Palm Synergy, terrific, that's great. You can have whatever contact management system interacting with lots of others. Great stuff, two thumbs up.

If it's limited to whatever Palm choose, screw that. This is one of the things that I was thinking about when I said I was doubtful about systems which don't do desktop sync. The thing is, if a gadget syncs with whatever desktop you have, and other sites sync with the same desktop, you have blanket syncing, as long as they all work of course.

 

[editor]

Here's something I thought I'd never hear: Engadget declaring that "Palm stole the CES show" with their new phone!
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/12/ces-2009-all-the-stuff-and-more/

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

The gestures like pinch zooming and that nice flick scrolling are also patented by Apple.

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph...AND+TTL/Gestures&RS=AN/Apple+AND+TTL/Gestures

Again, unlike some patents, its pretty clear.

There's flick scrolling on Android as well, so I guess they could potentially have a moan at Google as well...

 

[editor]

If there's a public API to interact with this Palm Synergy, terrific, that's great. You can have whatever contact management system interacting with lots of others. Great stuff, two thumbs up.

If it's limited to whatever Palm choose, screw that. This is one of the things that I was thinking about when I said I was doubtful about systems which don't do desktop sync. The thing is, if a gadget syncs with whatever desktop you have, and other sites sync with the same desktop, you have blanket syncing, as long as they all work of course.

Here's a comment from an Engadget user:

I'm personally interested in this. Palm said they'd open all hardware access with their SDK and such, but even then I would be skeptical.

It's interesting to note Palm said all of their own applications bundled with the Pre were build in the same html/css/etc. framework. Though Palm has said on a few occasions there will be a special extended API for its partners to have better direct access to hardware. So I'm not quite sure what to think on the matter of potential future gaming and navigation on the Pre
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/13/palms-mojo-sdk-for-webos-in-pictures/

Nice debate on CNet too. Their reviewer thinks that the Pre will fail because it doesn't do iTunes-like desktop syncing, while just about everyone disagrees with him in the comments section.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13526_3-10141045-27.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

 

[Crispy]

Well it prevents me from buying one, for a start.

 

[editor]

Well it prevents me from buying one, for a start.

Really? Seeing as conforms to the USB mass storage standard, you'll still be able to do all the usual stuff with playlists and ratings with Windows Media, WinAmp etc, but not, I guess, with iTunes:

There's very clearly two different schools of people when it comes to organizing and buying music. One depends on the iTunes library, and its database-esque provisions to pick out, sort and organize songs. The other is completely folder-based, there actually are software on this side to automate the sorting process too, if you so wish (e.g. automatically add numbers to the file name).

Whether you choose one or the other is a matter of personal preference. I've done both and because of the range of devices I own, I constantly do both at the same time. Even with an iPod, my PC library is NOT organized using iTunes; I use smart playlists a lot but all my files are device-only, copied from a location that's not the iTunes library.

Drag and drop is pretty much de facto for cell phones on a worldwide scale. No matter how many iTunes-esque software (usually terrible) phone makers like to throw at us, there's normally drag and drop too, and that normally saves the phones' music features from becoming unusable.

It is still true that iPhone has the best music player of all phones, but I think people constantly overestimate the pull of the iTunes store. The iPhone's music player wins on its own merits, in the implementation of the whole package. Not all kinetic scrolling are equal, and not all volume control dials are equal.

On the other hand, I'm using Pocket Player on Windows Mobile, and I can confirm that you do NOT lose all playlist capabilites, just because you don't use a jukebox-type software.

I think Palm choosing Amazon is a good call, because there's more freedom in handing your music.

This functionality isn't anything new - my creative zen does the same, I can sync it with wmp, creative software etc or... I can drag and drop media as I feel like.

So what you are reporting as a problem is actually a benefit - the user will be able to use music management software (itunes excluded of course) or drag and drop.

 

[Crispy]

My computer is the central source of all my information and I want to sync (as in - have things automatically update when I plug it in) whatever data my 3rd party apps need to. The iphone does this a bit, but it's not extensible. The pre isn't going to do it at all? And rely on 'the cloud'? Big Fat No from me. I have my own shit on my own computer and do not want to trust the cloud.

Oh and btw, to sync itunes with a generic player - BadApple for windows and SyncTunes for OSX.

 

[editor]

The pre isn't going to do it at all? And rely on 'the cloud'?

I don't think anyone knows for sure yet, to be honest.

 

[Crispy]

Well let's see then. Because that aside, this looks like a great phone

 

[Sunray]

There's flick scrolling on Android as well, so I guess they could potentially have a moan at Google as well...

Its looking like they are taking a very relaxed attitude, perhaps because they are number one new phone in the US.

If a phone comes along and dethrones them I wonder if they will get the knives out.

I know IBM have taken a lead on this saying they will not actively enforce some patents they hold and they are one of the world leaders for Tech patents.

 

[editor]

Its looking like they are taking a very relaxed attitude, perhaps because they are number one new phone in the US.

Apple never have a 'relaxed' attitude to protecting their property rights, even when their claim may perhaps be a little less than certain. Never. They're one of the most litigious tech companies on the planet.

If a competitor is using their patented technology without permission and payment, they will sue, as sure as night follows day.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Apple never have a 'relaxed' attitude to protecting their property rights, even when their claim may perhaps be a little less than certain. Never. They're one of the most litigious tech companies on the planet.

If a competitor is using their patented technology without permission and payment, they will sue, as sure as night follows day.

I wonder how watertight that patent is then, because Android has got the flick scroll thing pretty much down to the letter - a slow drag doesn't move much, a quick flick and whatever list you're on speeds by in the blink of an eye. It's great, makes getting through big lists nice and easy, but it's a direct rip from Apple.

 

[editor]

I wonder how watertight that patent is then, because Android has got the flick scroll thing pretty much down to the letter - a slow drag doesn't move much, a quick flick and whatever list you're on speeds by in the blink of an eye. It's great, makes getting through big lists nice and easy, but it's a direct rip from Apple.

The Picsel viewer on my 2004 Sony Clie is very similar: it lets me smoothly drag and flick objects and text around the screen, with a bigger flick resulting in it moving faster, and a slower flick moving the item slower.

 

[paolo]

Accelerative pointer behaviour was part of the 1980s Macs. So that wins.

 

[editor]

Accelerative pointer behaviour was part of the 1980s Macs. So that wins.

Touchscreen?

 

[paolo]

Touchscreen?

No of course not

Actually - for kinetic UI behaviour - it's not such a good example. Better would be the experimental Motion Finder that Apple put out in the early 90s. No idea if those ideas were kicking around much earlier, e.g. at PARC.

 

[editor]

The Sony Picsel one is very, very close to the iPhones.

 

[editor]

Fucking hell. Engadget seem to have turned into total Palm fanboys all of a sudden.

Here's a comprehensive 'Everything You Need To Know About The Pre' feature that's just gone up:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/13/palm-pre-everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know/

 

[UnderOpenSky]

While we don't see it on any literature, Palm reps told us the device has a microSD slot in addition to the 8GB of on-board storage, thus potentially letting the Pre get loaded up with a whopping 24GB of data.

I thought it didn't have one?