Ogmore Vale/Nantymoel: devastated old coal towns

[editor]

We visited Ogmore Vale, mid Glamorgan, over Christmas and I was shocked at what a run-down dump the place was. It looks like a dreadful place to live.

*shakes fist at evil Thatcher

 

[Kid_Eternity]

We visited Ogmore Vale, mid Glamorgan, over Christmas and I was shocked at what a run-down dump the place was. It looks like a dreadful place to live.

*shakes fist at evil Thatcher

Why is it her fault specifically?

 

[editor]

Why is it her fault specifically?

Because she and her government, specifically, closed down the mine on which the town's economy almost solely relied.

From 1865 to 1984, when the last colliery (Wyndham/Western Mine) closed, the coal industry provided employment for the communities of the valley and much wealth was produced for the nation. Sadly the cost in terms of human sacrifice and suffering was high
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogmore_Vale

Oh, and nearby Nantymoel is equally blighted. It must be awful to have to live there.

 

[Gromit]

Basically everything north of the M4 above Bridgend is pretty fucked up (and the town centre itself but they've had some money to do something about that bit).

I really shouldn't say any more on this topic though.

 

[editor]

I just found it really sad that the town had been so royally shafted. The miners must have handsomely contributed to Britain's wealth, so where's their share, their future and their prospects?

 

[nightowl]

i'm not too up on the history of mining in south wales but is it true that a lot of the wealth just ended up in cardiff?

 

[editor]

Have you ever seen a civic monument as tragic as Nantymoel's 1955 clock tower?

Naturally, it's broken.

 

[Gromit]

I just found it really sad that the town had been so royally shafted. The miners must have handsomely contributed to Britain's wealth, so where's their share, their future and their prospects?

The English Lords and landlords took it back to England with them when the gravytrain ended but don't get me started please.

 

[editor]

i'm not too up on the history of mining in south wales but is it true that a lot of the wealth just ended up in cardiff?

Where in Cardiff, specifically?

 

[Gromit]

i'm not too up on the history of mining in south wales but is it true that a lot of the wealth just ended up in cardiff?

Coal wealth built the docks and created slums such as Tiger bay and Butetown but like most wealth most of it ends up in the pockets of 1% of the population and the rest get the dregs.

Few of that 1% were welshmen. In fact the only welshman I can think of who got famously rich off coal was David Davies of Llandinam, architect of the docks.

 

[editor]

I can't imagine what it must have been like to work in those days.

By the turn of the century, new forces began to appear in the coalfields. Many of the coal owners united into large companies which came to be known as the 'combines'. The Cambrian Combine, owned by Lord Rhondda, employed almost 7,000 men in its collieries.

Despite being amongst the most prolific in the country, the Rhondda pits proved to be extremely difficult to mine. The deep seams which provided the highly prized steam coals were both gaseous and fiery, and consequently work was hard and always fraught with danger. All too often explosions, roof falls and other everyday accidents resulted in crippling injuries or death. Industrial diseases like pneumoconiosis caused near suffocation and almost inevitably proved fatal. A further hazard was from nystagmus, an eye disorder contracted through working in low light levels. This condition caused not only blindness but could, when untreated, cause insanity.

Other common ailments suffered by miners were ruptures, rheumatism and blood poisoning. On average, during the 46 years prior to World War I (1868 - 1914), 1 miner was killed every 6 hours, with a further 12 being seriously injured daily.
http://www.therhondda.co.uk/intro.html

(*I've changed the title of the thread, btw)

 

[nightowl]

Where in Cardiff, specifically?

dunno. it always seemed to be a fairly common gripe i heard from people, especially older people, up the valleys about the valleys producing the wealth and it all ending up in cardiff. not sure whether it was based on any fact or just a natural suspicion of the big city

 

[Gromit]

dunno. it always seemed to be a fairly common gripe i heard from people, especially older people, up the valleys about the valleys producing the wealth and it all ending up in cardiff. not sure whether it was based on any fact or just a natural suspicion of the big city

Think of it this way.
Cardiff did the docks work for all the coal towns.

So its the size of all those towns grouped together in one place (population wise).
It didn't get any more money than all those towns put together. It got its equal share.

It managed to survive the demise of the coal industry better only because of its transport infrasture position. Not cause it had more money.

 

[1927]

I just found it really sad that the town had been so royally shafted. The miners must have handsomely contributed to Britain's wealth, so where's their share, their future and their prospects?

I think they spent their share on XR4is. I remember working up in the Gwent mining towns in the late 80s and you never saw so many expensive cars on the drives. Miners had spunked their redundancy on cars rather than investing for their futures!

 

[lewislewis]

What is the future for the valleys? There needs to be jobs. At the moment all that's available is retail and typical part-time stuff, nothing stable (although i'm not disrespecting anyone in retail, that can be fulfilling).

Where are the proper policies from the UK government to redress what they did in the past?

In any other part of the world things are put in place to cover the damage when you take away the vital industry. How could Thatcher so cruelly shut down an entire industry without setting up any alternative employment?
The ex-coalfield areas of England must be in a similar state, although i've never been there.

English governments have never cared about anyone outside the South-East.

 

[editor]

A few pics. It ain't pretty.

http://www.urban75.org/photos/wales/ogmore-vale-nantymoel.html

Good feature here: http://www.communityarchives.org.uk/page_id__309_path__0p6p11p.aspx

 

[Grandma Death]

Because she and her government, specifically, closed down the mine on which the town's economy almost solely relied.

Whilst I agree with this post-we shouldn't spend too much time dwelling on an industry that was not only dangerous but was also incredibly bad for the environment.

 

[zog]

I quite like Ogmore Vale and it's one of the places I considered retiring to. Everyone I know up there is well chilled if not totally barking and the views are grand.

 

[davesgcr]

Great pictures .......

Some of those inter valley roads were built in the 1930's as part of an unemployment relief package.

Very sad state of some of those communities .....attempts at diversifying in the 1960s with light industry didnt come to much

 

[nightowl]

What is the future for the valleys? There needs to be jobs. At the moment all that's available is retail and typical part-time stuff, nothing stable (although i'm not disrespecting anyone in retail, that can be fulfilling).

i know a few people who have moved up the valleys because they can't afford accommodation in cardiff. is this a significant trend at the moment? could high costs in cardiff make people (and maybe some businesses?) look for alternatives and maybe breath new life into other areas?

 

[Gromit]

I quite like Ogmore Vale and it's one of the places I considered retiring to. Everyone I know up there is well chilled if not totally barking and the views are grand.

Are you confusing Ogmore Vale with Ogmore-by-sea? The two are very different.

 

[editor]

Are you confusing Ogmore Vale with Ogmore-by-sea? The two are very different.

I foolishly went swimming in Ogmore by sea a few years back.

I evacuated promptly when I saw floating brown blobs all around and was rewarded with an unpleasant neck rash.

I can't think why anyone would want to retire to Ogmore Vale. There's barely anything there at all.

 

[kyser_soze]

Can anyone tell me what exactly would have happened to these villages when the coal ran out anyway? I realise that Thatch hastened and arguably made the process more brutal than it needed to be, but much like the US rust belt and huge chunks of the mid-west, there are massive, massive problems with basing an entire community on a primary resource and extraction industries - hell, it's dangersous to base a community on a single economic resource full stop; it's economic specialisation of the same ilk as a butterfly that can survive on the pollen of one specific plant that grows on a single acre of land, remove that and it's entire ecosystem falls to bits.

 

[Gromit]

I foolishly went swimming in Ogmore by sea a few years back.

I evacuated promptly when I saw floating brown blobs all around and was rewarded with an unpleasant neck rash.

I can't think why anyone would want to retire to Ogmore Vale. There's barely anything there at all.

Sotherndown is cleaner. but not sandy.
Better surf too, on the rare occasions there is surf.

 

[editor]

Can anyone tell me what exactly would have happened to these villages when the coal ran out anyway?

As far as I know, there was still a lot of coal in them thar hills, but Thatch deemed them "uneconomic," preferring to import cheapo stuff and throw the miners (and their commuities and towns) on the scrapheap.

Even if the coal was running out, there can be no excuse for the brutality of her actions. 'Britain' may have been saving a few bob on coal, but at what human price?

Have you ever visited the Big Pit in Blaenavon? It's humbling stuff.

 

[zog]

Are you confusing Ogmore Vale with Ogmore-by-sea? The two are very different.

I prefer Ogmore Vale. the one by the sea is just a bit too sea-sidey for me. Whilst I prefer the hills - and I'm more likely to be able to afford a house up that way.

The clubs we drink in up that way make the Glamorgan staff club look posh.

 

[kyser_soze]

As far as I know, there was still a lot of coal in them thar hills, but Thatch deemed them "uneconomic," preferring to import cheapo stuff and throw the miners (and their commuities and towns) on the scrapheap.

Even if the coal was running out, there can be no excuse for the brutality of her actions. 'Britain' may have been saving a few bob on coal, but at what human price?

Have you ever visited the Big Pit in Blaenavon? It's humbling stuff.

That wasn't my question. At some point the coal would have run out; what would have happened then?

I saw enough broken communities driving through the US, communities that fell apart when the interstate highways network was built and/or technology changed farming methods (for example, towns where the grain elevators have been dismantled/moved) to know what such communities are like, and it is humbling.

But your comment doesn't address the basic issue of what happens to single-industry communities once that single industry goes.

 

[lewislewis]

You have to anticipate the decline of the industry and set up some alternative employment. In this country we'd probably do it with taxpayers money.

There is still loads of coal left unmined in South Wales, and the value of coal has risen dramatically since Thatcher's days. Alot of people keep saying about a return to coal mining using modern methods if the 'clean coal' technology is proven, but it's a big 'if'.

 

[Gromit]

You have to anticipate the decline of the industry and set up some alternative employment. In this country we'd probably do it with taxpayers money.

There is still loads of coal left unmined in South Wales, and the value of coal has risen dramatically since Thatcher's days. Alot of people keep saying about a return to coal mining using modern methods if the 'clean coal' technology is proven, but it's a big 'if'.

Actually they've started opencast mining at Merthyr Tydfil again. Residents aren't happy.

 

[1927]

You have to anticipate the decline of the industry and set up some alternative employment. In this country we'd probably do it with taxpayers money.

There is still loads of coal left unmined in South Wales, and the value of coal has risen dramatically since Thatcher's days. Alot of people keep saying about a return to coal mining using modern methods if the 'clean coal' technology is proven, but it's a big 'if'.

There IS a lot of coal left unmined, but there is a big difference between a resource and a reserve!