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NUS national protest against the cuts 10.11.10 [London]

teuchter said:
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I'm sure that will have them quaking in their boots, and ensure the civil servants who actually write the minutiae of policy think again...

Especially the way the word 'cunt' was over written.

I'm not criticising protest here, but with stuff like that, and some utter twunt chucking a fire extinguisher at a crowd, if people are going to protest and effect change, they need to start raising their game substantially.

All today will have done is cost insurance companies some money. I was in a government department in Whitehall whilst this all was going on, i can assure you there as so many easier ways to make things change.
 
Gerry1time said:
I'm sure that will have them quaking in their boots, and ensure the civil servants who actually write the minutiae of policy think again...

Especially the way the word 'cunt' was over written.

I'm not criticising protest here, but with stuff like that, and some utter twunt chucking a fire extinguisher at a crowd, if people are going to protest and effect change, they need to start raising their game substantially.

All today will have done is cost insurance companies some money. I was in a government department in Whitehall whilst this all was going on, i can assure you there as so many easier ways to make things change.
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Fucke me, i though articul8 was the boy in the bubble. You think it's about how the people you were talking to react at that time?
 
revol68 said:
Why are you talking about violence, there has been very little injuries, you can't have violence against property you muppet.
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I agree with this, apart from the bolded bit. Try telling that to a Palestinian or Zimbabwean whilst they're watching armoured bulldozers demolish their homes.

I'm not against political violence - there's no such thing as a struggle which has been won without it, including India whatever hippy bollocks is spouted about Gandhi. But random violence is pointless. Hence, few people are going to have a problem with the 'violence' used to occupy Millbank, whereas most have a big issue with the dick who threw the fire extinguisher. Even if you're not unhappy to see a copper killed by such an action, nothing good could have come out of it.

Glib statements about "no such thing as violence against property" are really unhelpful, IMO. There's no tactical awareness there - just blanket permission to smash shit up for the sake of it. Violence is sometimes tactically necessary, and when things kick off on a demo like this an important indicator of the sheer amount of anger out there whether or not the violence 'achieves' anything, but it's not good enough to just say that it's OK without qualifying when and how it is OK.

Some black bloc anarchists in Brum stopped some kids from turning over and setting fire to some random parked cars during the Iraq demonstrations in 2003. They were right to do so, IMO.

Anyways ... echoing what others have said, very encouraging to see this kick off, and to see the political messages going far beyond narrow student interests. Well done all. :cool:
 
Gerry1time said:
All today will have done is cost insurance companies some money. I was in a government department in Whitehall whilst this all was going on, i can assure you there as so many easier ways to make things change.
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:cool: do you have a skeleton key then? pity you didn't tell us about this before last friday
 
butchersapron said:
You didn't though. Go on have a look at what you actually said. You said that you see nothing and i suggested a reason why you see nothing. The battle will be won or lost around how the bulk of people, the working class react, and how far they're prepared to act to stop the cuts - from passive refusal to comply to outright rebellion. The policing is one part of the country is neither here nor there.

Currently there are thousands of groups organising themselves - organising themselves to defend their own conditions and those of their family/friends from ongoing or expected attacks. To make those battles into something more than defence, to turn them into something offensive, you have to be in there, and you have to be in there demonstrating that your way is a) more effective in immediate defence of those interests and b) more likely to ensure they'll not only be defended but also extended in the future. That's what politics is. It's not washing your hands and saying oh it'll only get labour in. It'll only get labour in if we don't bother using an unprecedented wave of public anger to build something else.

The open thatcherite wasn't her worst present- it's the uncommitted liberal.
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If when you say 'working class' you also include many of the people who identify as 'middle class' - non-professionals or professionals with sod all influence and little control over their environment - then I don't disagree with you.

No need to get all personal :p
 
butchersapron said:
You didn't though. Go on have a look at what you actually said. You said that you see nothing and i suggested a reason why you see nothing. The battle will be won or lost around how the bulk of people, the working class react, and how far they're prepared to act to stop the cuts - from passive refusal to comply to outright rebellion. The policing is one part of the country is neither here nor there.

Currently there are thousands of groups organising themselves - organising themselves to defend their own conditions and those of their family/friends from ongoing or expected attacks. To make those battles into something more than defence, to turn them into something offensive, you have to be in there, and you have to be in there demonstrating that your way is a) more effective in immediate defence of those interests and b) more likely to ensure they'll not only be defended but also extended in the future. That's what politics is. It's not washing your hands and saying oh it'll only get labour in. It'll only get labour in if we don't bother using an unprecedented wave of public anger to build something else.

The open thatcherite wasn't her worst present- it's the uncommitted liberal.
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yep :)
 
Gerry1time said:
and some utter twunt chucking a fire extinguisher at a crowd
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I've not checked through the thread, but is there any actual evidence that this extinguisher was chucked rather than just being accidentally dropped from the roof?

I ask because the footage I saw on the news showed a CO2 fire extinguisher being set off on the roof, and CO2 exinguishers get really (dangerously) cold at the nozzle when they're let off, so anyone not realising this and going to grab it by the nozzle would have little option but to drop it or watch their hand freeze on to the nozzle.

I'd give them the benefit of the doubt on this tbh in the absence of any evidence to the contrary. Still stupid, but not necessarily deliberately so.
 
free spirit said:
I've not checked through the thread, but is there any actual evidence that this extinguisher was chucked rather than just being accidentally dropped from the roof?

I ask because the footage I saw on the news showed a CO2 fire extinguisher being set off on the roof, and CO2 exinguishers get really (dangerously) cold at the nozzle when they're let off, so anyone not realising this and going to grab it by the nozzle would have little option but to drop it or watch their hand freeze on to the nozzle.

I'd give them the benefit of the doubt on this tbh in the absence of any evidence to the contrary. Still stupid, but not necessarily deliberately so.
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think there's footage of someone lobbing it off the top of the building
 
it was a red extinguisher - don't they have h2o in them? anyway, one person threw it. lots of people didn't.
 
Just listening to the midnight news on the Beeb.

Feeling somehow, ridiculously, proud of the students.*

Was chatting with a couple of students on Monday night, they seemed really clued up and informed. And they also seemed to have that deep calm visceral anger that I remember from the days of Thatcher.




*And of course I posted this immediately after audiotech's posted link showing the stupid stupid stupidity of throwing a fire extinguisher off the roof into the crowd. Not so proud of that, obv.
 
story said:
Just listening to the midnight news on the Beeb.

Feeling somehow, ridiculously, proud of the students.

Was chatting with a couple of students on Monday night, they seemed really clued up and informed. And they also seemed to have that deep calm visceral anger that I remember from the days of Thatcher.
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Oh for gods sake. We don't need heroism - esp not generalised heroism. Ridiculous was correct.
 
Orang Utan said:
proud is the wrong word, but i do feel heartened by what happened
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Yeah, maybe that's it.

Or maybe it's something akin to pride cos of the conversation I had with the youngsters on Monday.

I was impressed by them, and they gave me the impression that there was a swelling mood of determination amongst their fellows.
 
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