editor
hiraethified
Ah, so you're a fan of censorship and keeping things quiet?
The Catholic Church has a bit of a thing about that hasn't it?
No Vatican - London for a Secular Europe
- Thread starter Dooby
- Start date
The Catholic Church has a bit of a thing about that hasn't it?
the button
out on the kocker
I think it's more than services that are being outsourced -- it's authenticity. Given a managerial rather than ideological frame, politics becomes about who can run things best, rather than contesting the shape of the things themselves. Religious organisations step in, not only as service providers, but as service providers you can believe in.
I attended a woeful meeting with Tony Blair (not on my own, like
-- there were representatives of lots of 'faith groups' there) in late 1999, and he basically made a pitch for religious groups to get involved in local services for financial and political reasons. Although he didn't phrase the political reasons in quite the same way as I did in para. 1 above. 
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Arguably they are not the only group of people involved in Child abuse, and probably not as ruthless as others at covering it up as can be shown with child abuse cases in North Wales with possible links to Freenasonary.
http://www.scandals.org/articles/sr000220a.html
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6829816&postcount=12
Catholicism covers a vast spectrum of people and outlooks many Socialist & Anarchists. It is also a group of people who are and have suffered in recent years much discrimination harrasement and even ethnic cleansing not so far away in what many people consider part of this country.
http://mb-soft.com/believe/txn/liberati.htm
http://atheism.about.com/od/theology/a/lib_catholic.htm
http://www.catholicworker.org/index.cfm
http://catholicworker.com
http://www.londoncatholicworker.org/OxfordCW.html
http://www.londoncatholicworker.org
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Possibly not with all these 'immigrants' coming across from central & eastern europe. Another group you can scapegoat!
Remind me again what Peter Tatchell's position on the age of consent is!?
the button
out on the kocker
No comment on this then!
Probably because most of the "anti-Catholic" posts on this thread have in fact been anti-church heirarchy. A healthy attitude shared by many in Catholic Worker, I'm guessing.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
So why not have a demonstration against religous bigotry rather than concentrating on one group!
I'm sure the EDL and such like are only concerned with Religous Fundamentalism while coincidentily targeting Muslims!
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Socialist defending theists. Where have we seen that before.
the button
out on the kocker
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Purrrrrrr.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
How many divisions has the Pope
cantsin
Well-Known Member
No comment on this then!
the whole 'catholic anarchist' bit isn't worth commenting on tbh, you 've bought it up before, and it's up their with 'Tory Anarchist' on the list of meaningless concepts.
Dooby
mince
There are many demonstrations against religious bigotry involving the people in the event I originally posted. It's about Catholicism this time re state funding the imminent papal visit. Secular is not a euphemism for anti-catholic. Are you not getting this?
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Its just Bigotry & and panders to Racism; many of the poorer groups of people being put into some narrow minded block.
Putting all people from a religous group in the same box.
Are you saying that secular and non/anti religous groups aren't/cannot be bigoted or have dodgy views.
Workers Power for instance is quite happy to supporrt organised paedophiles, various right wing libertarians attitude towards human beings see people below them as some kind of sub-species. Homophobia, Sexism, Racism are'nt restricted to theists or even deists.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Shows you to be quite ignorant!
There are a lot of mad groups around eccentric nutters e.g. N* An+rch!st$ such as An@Rch0 M0n@rchi$t$ however Catholic Worker, Liberation Theology and Anarchists who just happen to one religous persuasion or another don't fit into this category.
I would be relatively sympathetic if this was fifty+ or even thirty years ago. The role played by the catholic church in say Ireland under Develera, Franco, in Italy was supporting reactionary and Fascists. However even in this situation elements of the Jesuits played a strong role in helping Jewish immigrants and in Germany Catholic Youth Movement was on of the first to be liquidated.(http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Pope-...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269268087&sr=8-1)
It seems a bit odd that religous denominations such as Muslims Catholics who are being scrutinised if not scapegoated at the moment are the two that these organisations are picking on.
Two religons that have in themthe most reactionary outlook and practice in some instances: Hinduism and Buddhism are left completely alone. God forbid that anyone should criticise Tibetian or Sri Lankan/Tamil ethnic cleansing & barbaric feudel torture of 'lower castes' The wests orientalist perspective on Hinduism: in many cases rigid caste system, ethnic & social cleansing, infanticide recentely homophobia one of its political leaders calling Hitlers' Holocaust, "....a detail of history" doesn't come up with these people!
Similarly British/European neo-Paganism has some dodgy concepts as anyone who has ploughed through Dione Fortune or Crowley would recognise.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Everyone on this board would be too busy beating themselves up over how evil only came to India when the British rocked up. Before then it was a paradise country of enlightenment, education and peace, where everyone got along because they knew their place. Since the British left of course, every bad thing has been the 'legacy of colonialism'.
Ian Townson
Active Member
The pope is a dictator. As head of the Vatican City State, a mediaeval institution, his word is law and his reactionary views and pronouncements are to be obeyed by Catholics globally. Not only that but it is the duty of all Catholics (and all christians) to proselytise and convert others to their universal doctrine (as it is with political parties and neo-imperialism). With these thoughts in mind we should oppose the Pope's visit for his anti-democratic credentials in the way that we would oppose all dictators with reactionary and persecutory views and practices whether that is Robert Mugabe, The Burmese leadership or Benjamin Netanyahu.
Having said that there are many catholics who disregard papal edicts as unworkable and even inhumane. So let's not tar everyone with the same brush. Especially not the liberation theologists who, in the past, have stood up to dictatorships against poverty and paid the price with their lives. Also there are many catholics who unobtrusively disobey papal bull and get on with the business of administering to the needs of their communities against officialdom. We must still oppose Catholic agencies not allowing gay couples to adopt children or priests forbidding the use of condoms as a contraceptive or to halt the spread of HIV/AIDS and so on. But what I don't want to see is militant atheism becoming the thuggish, intolerant mirror-image of militant theism.
The catholic church and paedophilia - well, come on. Any closed institution that is not open to close, independent scrutiny will be open to abuses such as those rapes and sexual assaults on children in Ireland. This goes as much for the British Army (remember the thuggish bullying and 'unexplained' deaths at Deep Cut barracks?), Beverly Allitt (the nurse who killed her patients) and so on...And yes, there are other examples of politico-religious intolerance such as the Hindu chauvinism that killed thousands of Seikhs and muslims in India in communal violence. Clearly the priests involved in Ireland and America should have been arrested by the police, brought before a civil court and sentenced but none of that needs to happen under a dictatorship that spreads its influence to all corners of the earth to protect its own and keep things quiet.
What I suspect 'catholic anarchists' and even 'Tory anarchists' are doing is to 'pick 'n mix' the bits they like from anarchism. The anti-state/individualism will appeal to both - perhaps. What they seem to have conveniently forgotten is the overarching anti-capitalist politics of the anarchists. Are catholics anti-capitalist? Tories certainly aren't.
I don't know about you lot but I am tired of people on this site and other sites who cannot string a sentence together let alone a coherent argument. It doesn't have to be a great tome. An interesting paragraph would be ok. Please give up the 'bitchy' word bites. All these do is demonstrate a lack of confidence in your own arguments.
Best wishes all,
Ian Townson
Having said that there are many catholics who disregard papal edicts as unworkable and even inhumane. So let's not tar everyone with the same brush. Especially not the liberation theologists who, in the past, have stood up to dictatorships against poverty and paid the price with their lives. Also there are many catholics who unobtrusively disobey papal bull and get on with the business of administering to the needs of their communities against officialdom. We must still oppose Catholic agencies not allowing gay couples to adopt children or priests forbidding the use of condoms as a contraceptive or to halt the spread of HIV/AIDS and so on. But what I don't want to see is militant atheism becoming the thuggish, intolerant mirror-image of militant theism.
The catholic church and paedophilia - well, come on. Any closed institution that is not open to close, independent scrutiny will be open to abuses such as those rapes and sexual assaults on children in Ireland. This goes as much for the British Army (remember the thuggish bullying and 'unexplained' deaths at Deep Cut barracks?), Beverly Allitt (the nurse who killed her patients) and so on...And yes, there are other examples of politico-religious intolerance such as the Hindu chauvinism that killed thousands of Seikhs and muslims in India in communal violence. Clearly the priests involved in Ireland and America should have been arrested by the police, brought before a civil court and sentenced but none of that needs to happen under a dictatorship that spreads its influence to all corners of the earth to protect its own and keep things quiet.
What I suspect 'catholic anarchists' and even 'Tory anarchists' are doing is to 'pick 'n mix' the bits they like from anarchism. The anti-state/individualism will appeal to both - perhaps. What they seem to have conveniently forgotten is the overarching anti-capitalist politics of the anarchists. Are catholics anti-capitalist? Tories certainly aren't.
I don't know about you lot but I am tired of people on this site and other sites who cannot string a sentence together let alone a coherent argument. It doesn't have to be a great tome. An interesting paragraph would be ok. Please give up the 'bitchy' word bites. All these do is demonstrate a lack of confidence in your own arguments.
Best wishes all,
Ian Townson
fractionMan
Custom Title
wtf are you on about. I've started several threads on here about the problems with Buddhism in sri-lanka.
As is the Pope.
Do you write wedding speeches too?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Seems to me that there is a case for some sort of anarchist religion with proper terms of reference, a constitution and full member voting rights ( some might prefer STV but I don't think the detail is important at the moment)
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
Take a trip to your local Friends' Meeting house, where you'll find no creed; no clergy; no sacrements;gay weddings - but if marriage isn't for you it's not a problem; all decisions taken by consensus; pacifism, lots of flatulent vegetarians; no dreadful hymns or choruses;and the opportunity to sit in a circle , usually round a buch of flowers, in a silence ocassionally interupted by brief interludes extempore ministy from your fellow worshippers or indeed yourself .
Too liberterian for a constitution though, and very middle-class. Oh, and Richard Nixon was a Quaker, but an American one, and hey nobody's perfect!
Quaker propoganda site
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
No platform for buddhists
What about racail supremicism and the crypto fascist feudalism of the Tibetan Dalia Lama Clique and his followers or reactionary nature of Buddhists in Nepal side with monarchists against the herioic Nepalese Communist Party!
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
Offer him some then.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
What's the point
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Ian Townson
Active Member
What's a Seikh
You obviously have no genuine knowledge of this subject
Reply With Quote
My apologies to Nigel...I spelt sikh incorrectly. Also if my knowledge is faulty then I would appreciate some enlightenment to which hopefully I will give a thoughtful and intelligent response.
Best wishes,
Ian
You obviously have no genuine knowledge of this subject
Reply With Quote
My apologies to Nigel...I spelt sikh incorrectly. Also if my knowledge is faulty then I would appreciate some enlightenment to which hopefully I will give a thoughtful and intelligent response.
Best wishes,
Ian
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