NO "Not clean" war - BUT CLASS WAR
- Thread starter nomoney
- Start date
M
MGarner2K
Guest
Ummm.... and how do you know that houses were bombed?
M
MGarner2K
Guest
Yeah i know that... But what Proof is there that houses were bombed? there could have been, but there might not have been. Everbody's gotta jump to conclusions.
Matt: After our smarts bombs failing to avoud civilians in every war they're been used in (Gulf, Kosovo) or at least being directed at civilian targets (as in the pharaceutical factory) we're rather cynical about claims of 'surgical warfare'
K
Katherine Toorcana
Guest
CNN is reporting that U.S and Northern Alliance are bombing Taliban strongholds in Kabul and Kandahar. I don't understand this!!
The Taliban was willing to look at evidence and if it was bin Laden, they would have a trial. Aid workers were still in Kabul.
Right now, Britain is using their ships to launch missiles as well. They plan to bomb at night, then drop off food and medicine to refugees during the day.
The Taliban was willing to look at evidence and if it was bin Laden, they would have a trial. Aid workers were still in Kabul.
Right now, Britain is using their ships to launch missiles as well. They plan to bomb at night, then drop off food and medicine to refugees during the day.
This is sick
Have we started another Vietnam? How do we end this? The USA and UK have wound ourselves up into a no-win position. This sort of thing just creates more terrorism. Bombing the Afghans at night and feeding them during the day is absurd.
This is a nightmare
Smurf
[ 07 October 2001: Message edited by: Smurf ]
Have we started another Vietnam? How do we end this? The USA and UK have wound ourselves up into a no-win position. This sort of thing just creates more terrorism. Bombing the Afghans at night and feeding them during the day is absurd.
This is a nightmare
Smurf
[ 07 October 2001: Message edited by: Smurf ]
M
MGarner2K
Guest
I think the US and Britain are trying to attack the Taliban and to Feed the inoccent people. I dont see a problem with that.
And yeah you can Spout off LIES and MURDER...(need i remind you, 2 big buildings no longer exist) but needless to say... I dont think any lies were neccesary in this conflict...
and as for the Greatest Crime since the holocaust??? How do you figure that. thats absurd. The Americans presented their evidence to NATO that Osama was involved, and The taliban would not release him? As Far as im Concerned they are getting what they Deserve. (i am not talking about Civilian Afgans or Islam people in General, But anyone who would support the attacks or harbor the people who did them)
And yeah you can Spout off LIES and MURDER...(need i remind you, 2 big buildings no longer exist) but needless to say... I dont think any lies were neccesary in this conflict...
and as for the Greatest Crime since the holocaust??? How do you figure that. thats absurd. The Americans presented their evidence to NATO that Osama was involved, and The taliban would not release him? As Far as im Concerned they are getting what they Deserve. (i am not talking about Civilian Afgans or Islam people in General, But anyone who would support the attacks or harbor the people who did them)
A
amithal
Guest
What are you talking about Nemo?!
The attack started 5 minutes ago and you already compare it to the holocaust!!?!
Osama Bin Laden admitted being responsible for the WTC attacks in the tape he released, He also said a few times that his terror attacks will not stop!! Not only you fail to see how dangerous this man and his group is, you decide that any attack on them could be compared to the Holocaust!
Your perception of the world is VERY strange, you consider good as evil and evil as good.
The attack started 5 minutes ago and you already compare it to the holocaust!!?!
Osama Bin Laden admitted being responsible for the WTC attacks in the tape he released, He also said a few times that his terror attacks will not stop!! Not only you fail to see how dangerous this man and his group is, you decide that any attack on them could be compared to the Holocaust!
Your perception of the world is VERY strange, you consider good as evil and evil as good.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Taliban + Isreali government + American government = Scum.
Don't forget, most people in afganisan are intirely innocent. The Taliban are evil and must be stopped, as must Osama Bin Liner.
But that does NOT justifiy attacks on civilians, by either Taliban or Americans.
Do not forget the taliban were actually helped by Americans. 43 m was givent in aid to the earlier this year, when the announced cessation of heroin production.
Hopefully the Northern Alliance will not be as bad as the taliban but it is a big " hopefully " ...
[ 07 October 2001: Message edited by: frogwoman ]
Don't forget, most people in afganisan are intirely innocent. The Taliban are evil and must be stopped, as must Osama Bin Liner.
But that does NOT justifiy attacks on civilians, by either Taliban or Americans.
Do not forget the taliban were actually helped by Americans. 43 m was givent in aid to the earlier this year, when the announced cessation of heroin production.
Hopefully the Northern Alliance will not be as bad as the taliban but it is a big " hopefully " ...
[ 07 October 2001: Message edited by: frogwoman ]
Okay, so perhaps I was overreacting with the holocaust comparison, but it is still a crime of great magnitude. Indeed, the magnitude of Bush and Blair's crime is matched only by the magnitude of their folly.
Well how many building in Afghanistan do you think have been reduce to rubble? The US government has not produced enough evidence to link Osama Bin Laden to September 11th, therefore, they are liars too. If this war is not murder, what is it?
And did the Taliban see that evidence? No, why should they have released him with no evidence that he was guilty?
Thank you for putting words in my mouth, I really want to be seen as a supporter of hardline Islamic terrorism. There is no such thing as pure evil and, converesely, no such thing as pure good. The attacks on September 11th were vile but so are the attacks on Afghanistan.
Any justification of these attacks, least of all "thrill" at them (as one poster said), is just as bad as the September 11th attacks. If you think that dropping food by day whilst dropping bombs by night is good and humane, then you really need your priorities checking. They try and obliterate people whilst at the same time placating the UN et al by saying that they are giving those same people food.
Pax vobiscum, Nemo
Well how many building in Afghanistan do you think have been reduce to rubble? The US government has not produced enough evidence to link Osama Bin Laden to September 11th, therefore, they are liars too. If this war is not murder, what is it?
And did the Taliban see that evidence? No, why should they have released him with no evidence that he was guilty?
Thank you for putting words in my mouth, I really want to be seen as a supporter of hardline Islamic terrorism. There is no such thing as pure evil and, converesely, no such thing as pure good. The attacks on September 11th were vile but so are the attacks on Afghanistan.
Any justification of these attacks, least of all "thrill" at them (as one poster said), is just as bad as the September 11th attacks. If you think that dropping food by day whilst dropping bombs by night is good and humane, then you really need your priorities checking. They try and obliterate people whilst at the same time placating the UN et al by saying that they are giving those same people food.
Pax vobiscum, Nemo
M
Myshkin
Guest
I suspect that even if all of the targets hit were purely military, the Taliban would claim they were all civilian. I don't think surgical strikes are possible without errors, but if you believe Saddam and meanoldman, there has never been a cruise missile that has hit a justifiable target. I'm not saying that you should believe the US media all the time, however you should take both claims with a grain of salt.
As usual, some of you are already off on your extreme rants... "holocaust", "war criminals"... and you wonder why the mainstream media ignores you? Sheesh, even the video from bin Laden seemed more reasonable than some of you. If you ignore his "struck by God" and "infidel" crap (I just replace that with "struck by kamikaze religious extremists with their heads up their asses" and "powerful, unjust country with different beliefs than us"), the rest was almost reasonable in comparison.
I understand that some of you are so anti-US that it does not matter what proof against bin Laden comes out, no matter what the response of the US, no matter what country sponsors terrorism, you will always be against anything the US does until it falls from power, and probably even after that. And though you may believe that once this happens the world will come to its senses, unfortunately that is highly unlikely, and if anything things will go from bad to worse.
I hope this shite stops as quickly as it has begun, however I fear this is only the beginning. I don't think this was the wisest course to take, nor was it the worst, but regardless any reaction (even no reaction) would have had negative consequences. Even if the US had completely withdrawn support from Israel and left the Middle East (highly unlikely in any case) the shit would still be hitting the fan as Israel fights for its life and every Tom, Dick and Hussein dictator takes off their gloves and starts battling for domination in the Middle East.
For those of you that think it makes no sense to bomb Afghanistan while sending food and medicine... I don't know what happened to your common sense synapses, but the reason is to minimize the impact on civilians as much as possible. Would you prefer they just bomb away and let the poor Afghans die of starvation and disease? Yes, of course it would be better not to bomb at all, but if they are going to bomb the least they can do is try to help the innocents as much as possible.
[ 07 October 2001: Message edited by: Myshkin ]
As usual, some of you are already off on your extreme rants... "holocaust", "war criminals"... and you wonder why the mainstream media ignores you? Sheesh, even the video from bin Laden seemed more reasonable than some of you. If you ignore his "struck by God" and "infidel" crap (I just replace that with "struck by kamikaze religious extremists with their heads up their asses" and "powerful, unjust country with different beliefs than us"), the rest was almost reasonable in comparison.
I understand that some of you are so anti-US that it does not matter what proof against bin Laden comes out, no matter what the response of the US, no matter what country sponsors terrorism, you will always be against anything the US does until it falls from power, and probably even after that. And though you may believe that once this happens the world will come to its senses, unfortunately that is highly unlikely, and if anything things will go from bad to worse.
I hope this shite stops as quickly as it has begun, however I fear this is only the beginning. I don't think this was the wisest course to take, nor was it the worst, but regardless any reaction (even no reaction) would have had negative consequences. Even if the US had completely withdrawn support from Israel and left the Middle East (highly unlikely in any case) the shit would still be hitting the fan as Israel fights for its life and every Tom, Dick and Hussein dictator takes off their gloves and starts battling for domination in the Middle East.
For those of you that think it makes no sense to bomb Afghanistan while sending food and medicine... I don't know what happened to your common sense synapses, but the reason is to minimize the impact on civilians as much as possible. Would you prefer they just bomb away and let the poor Afghans die of starvation and disease? Yes, of course it would be better not to bomb at all, but if they are going to bomb the least they can do is try to help the innocents as much as possible.
[ 07 October 2001: Message edited by: Myshkin ]
M
Myshkin
Guest
"What the US is doing now is wrong" maybe... maybe not. I would have preferred that the US stay out Afghanistan personally, however that they support the people with aid and the rebels with whatever they need to overthrow the Taliban. However, 10 years from now when those same rebels turn against the US and do [insert outrageous act here], you would blame the US for supporting the rebels in the first place. Just like you are doing now.
The US supported bin Laden and those that fought against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan... many of whom now are part of the Taliban. You blame the US for this, but at the time the US could either stay out of it (giving the Russians a much better chance), fight there ourselves, or support the Afghans against the Soviets. The first two would have been as bad if not worse than the third.
This is what I meant by it doesn't matter what the US does. Every choice is bad. If the US stays out of things (like we wanted to back when Bosnia went to hell) we are accused of being isolationists. I've seen the US blamed for Bosnia here on this board(the deal about the oil pipelines) when from the same article posted it was pretty clear that European interests were more at stake than US interests.
So, to sum it up:
A. I think these attacks are premature, if not entirely unnecessary.
B. Bin Laden is not an idiot. It seems like you expect the proof to be a video of him with all the terrorists together having a picnic. The proof at best will be circumstantial.
C. Considering B, the only people that have been shat on enough and also have beliefs that would give them the nerve to carry out such attacks are Islamic extremists (extremists being the important word there). As far as I know, the IRA and the ETA don't use suicide bombers, nor do the right-wing nutcases in the US like Timothy McVeigh (ironic that in the end he could be considered a suicide bomber perhaps).
Oops I have to go. Peace
The US supported bin Laden and those that fought against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan... many of whom now are part of the Taliban. You blame the US for this, but at the time the US could either stay out of it (giving the Russians a much better chance), fight there ourselves, or support the Afghans against the Soviets. The first two would have been as bad if not worse than the third.
This is what I meant by it doesn't matter what the US does. Every choice is bad. If the US stays out of things (like we wanted to back when Bosnia went to hell) we are accused of being isolationists. I've seen the US blamed for Bosnia here on this board(the deal about the oil pipelines) when from the same article posted it was pretty clear that European interests were more at stake than US interests.
So, to sum it up:
A. I think these attacks are premature, if not entirely unnecessary.
B. Bin Laden is not an idiot. It seems like you expect the proof to be a video of him with all the terrorists together having a picnic. The proof at best will be circumstantial.
C. Considering B, the only people that have been shat on enough and also have beliefs that would give them the nerve to carry out such attacks are Islamic extremists (extremists being the important word there). As far as I know, the IRA and the ETA don't use suicide bombers, nor do the right-wing nutcases in the US like Timothy McVeigh (ironic that in the end he could be considered a suicide bomber perhaps).
Oops I have to go. Peace
M
Man Of Kent
Guest
Fucking A, dude.
While you peaceniks cry about the loss of life in Afghanistan, they are still digging the dead out of a hole in NYC.
It's easy to use your right to free speech, when you have one, isn't it? Do you ever give a thought as to how that is maintained? Not by writing letters to the Guardian or Socialist Worker, you can be sure of that...
People die to keep you with the freedoms you take for granted. Now the US and I disagree on a whole shitload but on killing terrorists and their supporters, I think we are united.
While you peaceniks cry about the loss of life in Afghanistan, they are still digging the dead out of a hole in NYC.
It's easy to use your right to free speech, when you have one, isn't it? Do you ever give a thought as to how that is maintained? Not by writing letters to the Guardian or Socialist Worker, you can be sure of that...
People die to keep you with the freedoms you take for granted. Now the US and I disagree on a whole shitload but on killing terrorists and their supporters, I think we are united.
M
mobymonster
Guest
Man Of Kent, thanks you said what I feel but said it more politely.
Smurf, I agree bombing them and feeding them is absurd. After we finish bombing them, at the end of the "war" then feed them.
mobymonster
Smurf, I agree bombing them and feeding them is absurd. After we finish bombing them, at the end of the "war" then feed them.
mobymonster
Cautious Fred
commie troublemaker
How very generous of you, moby. What's that expression? "We cut them in half with a gun and give them a Band Aid".
Man of Kent - no one here claimed the WTC was a military target. The loss of life made it one of the worst terrorist atrocities in the world this year so far.
But the bombing of Afganistan will kill more innocent people. What's the use of that? The result will be that there will be more Osama Bin Ladens in the world, not fewer.
[ 07 October 2001: Message edited by: Cautious Fred ]
Man of Kent - no one here claimed the WTC was a military target. The loss of life made it one of the worst terrorist atrocities in the world this year so far.
But the bombing of Afganistan will kill more innocent people. What's the use of that? The result will be that there will be more Osama Bin Ladens in the world, not fewer.
[ 07 October 2001: Message edited by: Cautious Fred ]
matt, myshkin and man of kent
The chances of getting bin laden are remote. further death, destruction and misery of afghan people is inevitable.
taliban resistance will be strong. an intractable war with huge casualties will be likely. afghanistan will be reduced to anarchy again by foreign powers. chances of vaguely humane new govt zero.
massive unrest will spread throughout the middle east, due to civilian casualties, particularly in Pakistan (Britain has guaranteed to support 'internal security' to prop up musharref), Saudi Arabia and Egypt (both will require military support from US to deal with internal dissent).
chances of West being drawn into de facto military occupation of Arab client states terrifyingly high.
all in all by the time Bush has finished september 11th will look like a day out in your beloved disneyworld.
The chances of getting bin laden are remote. further death, destruction and misery of afghan people is inevitable.
taliban resistance will be strong. an intractable war with huge casualties will be likely. afghanistan will be reduced to anarchy again by foreign powers. chances of vaguely humane new govt zero.
massive unrest will spread throughout the middle east, due to civilian casualties, particularly in Pakistan (Britain has guaranteed to support 'internal security' to prop up musharref), Saudi Arabia and Egypt (both will require military support from US to deal with internal dissent).
chances of West being drawn into de facto military occupation of Arab client states terrifyingly high.
all in all by the time Bush has finished september 11th will look like a day out in your beloved disneyworld.
M
Myshkin
Guest
Ali -
"The chances of getting bin laden are remote. further death, destruction and misery of afghan people is inevitable" - Agreed, with or without airstrikes.
"chances of vaguely humane new govt zero" Agreed, with or without airstrikes.
The rest of it, well, you may be more of an optimist than me, but I see the same result happening regardless of what the US does. Doing nothing is as bad as what they are doing. That would give just as much encouragement as the Jihad call they are getting now... either way the US is headed down a foggy path towards a police state a la Israel. If the US doesn't go down that path, they will be open to more attacks.
Oh, yeah, sure the Taliban will take the evidence (which we still haven't seen) and try bin Laden in their courts hahaha. While we're at it we can try Bush in the US Supreme Court on war crime charges.
The cynics among you are blaming this whole thing and everything like it on the US or the West or Capitalism or whatever... sorry but you guys should look into the real culprits like religion, nationalism, idealism, racism, and meglomania. Come to think of it, when you guys destroy Capitalism and think you have found the promised land, the workers' utopia, these 5 things (among others) will be your downfall. Some are the fault of the US, some are the fault of others, but I can think of very few nations (or people) that are not guilty of at least one of these.
To paraphrase someone, "Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"
"The chances of getting bin laden are remote. further death, destruction and misery of afghan people is inevitable" - Agreed, with or without airstrikes.
"chances of vaguely humane new govt zero" Agreed, with or without airstrikes.
The rest of it, well, you may be more of an optimist than me, but I see the same result happening regardless of what the US does. Doing nothing is as bad as what they are doing. That would give just as much encouragement as the Jihad call they are getting now... either way the US is headed down a foggy path towards a police state a la Israel. If the US doesn't go down that path, they will be open to more attacks.
Oh, yeah, sure the Taliban will take the evidence (which we still haven't seen) and try bin Laden in their courts hahaha. While we're at it we can try Bush in the US Supreme Court on war crime charges.
The cynics among you are blaming this whole thing and everything like it on the US or the West or Capitalism or whatever... sorry but you guys should look into the real culprits like religion, nationalism, idealism, racism, and meglomania. Come to think of it, when you guys destroy Capitalism and think you have found the promised land, the workers' utopia, these 5 things (among others) will be your downfall. Some are the fault of the US, some are the fault of others, but I can think of very few nations (or people) that are not guilty of at least one of these.
To paraphrase someone, "Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"
K
kissthecat
Guest
Mysh you have chained yourself to madmen. I won't argue with your reasoning because we have been there already. Only time will tell who is right. In the meantime fresh flesh and bones are being smashed to pulp.
N
nutritional_value
Guest
Nemo,
Considering that you are only 16, we will forgive your minor exaggeration here. I guess this is the first time you have experienced something like this (too young to remember Gulf War?).
[ 08 October 2001: Message edited by: nutritional_value ]
Considering that you are only 16, we will forgive your minor exaggeration here. I guess this is the first time you have experienced something like this (too young to remember Gulf War?).
[ 08 October 2001: Message edited by: nutritional_value ]
M
mobymonster
Guest
Nemo, to quote you
"Bush and Blair are INTERNATIONAL CRIMINALS, this is the greatest crime since the holocaust. War crimes, murder, lies, hypocrisy. I am absolutely livid about this. Bastards, bastards, bastards!"
That's before you even knew if they were any innocent casualties.
Having done a quick search of your member number it seems that 6000 innocent deaths at the WTC did not merit a similar outburst agaist the terrorists from you.
So can I assume that US UK etc deaths are not worth much to you ?
mobymonster
[ 08 October 2001: Message edited by: mobymonster ]
"Bush and Blair are INTERNATIONAL CRIMINALS, this is the greatest crime since the holocaust. War crimes, murder, lies, hypocrisy. I am absolutely livid about this. Bastards, bastards, bastards!"
That's before you even knew if they were any innocent casualties.
Having done a quick search of your member number it seems that 6000 innocent deaths at the WTC did not merit a similar outburst agaist the terrorists from you.
So can I assume that US UK etc deaths are not worth much to you ?
mobymonster
[ 08 October 2001: Message edited by: mobymonster ]
J
johnwisehammer
Guest
Why don't you grow the fuck up and stop trying to score cheap points against individuals?
D
danray
Guest
going back to nomoney's original point.
theres no such thing as a clean war. All war is inherantly dirty and painfull and hateful.
This particular one judgeing from the historical references that have come to light since sept 11th just makes it one of the dirtiest.
With regard to further posts in this thread..
A multitude of external regimes have been playing war and influence in afganistan since the end of the second world war, for our collective governments to suddenly forget their predecessors role in this ongoing conflict ends up with us all looking like hypocrites.
Anyone who supports this action, is iether speaking with their head in the sand or hasn't read their history.
The view that this war started with sept 11th really annoys me. It assumes that our collective external nations are innocent, and have done nothing at all to warrant this supposedly unprovokeded attack. In my view there was no attack, have been no attacks, just a long line of reprisals. A line which unfortunately has just got longer.
theres no such thing as a clean war. All war is inherantly dirty and painfull and hateful.
This particular one judgeing from the historical references that have come to light since sept 11th just makes it one of the dirtiest.
With regard to further posts in this thread..
A multitude of external regimes have been playing war and influence in afganistan since the end of the second world war, for our collective governments to suddenly forget their predecessors role in this ongoing conflict ends up with us all looking like hypocrites.
Anyone who supports this action, is iether speaking with their head in the sand or hasn't read their history.
The view that this war started with sept 11th really annoys me. It assumes that our collective external nations are innocent, and have done nothing at all to warrant this supposedly unprovokeded attack. In my view there was no attack, have been no attacks, just a long line of reprisals. A line which unfortunately has just got longer.
people are proud to announce that the west is sending aid into afganistan etc, what we don't and won't hear from the media is that all independent aid which has been in place for years is now completely cut off. the u.s is dropping aid in, however, they refuse to drop any aid into regions which are under the control of the taliban, good i hear some cry, however this means that instead of millions of extremely desperate people from recieving what little, some agencies have to offer, the dictators of the west now demand that they will do the feeding and are only prepared to feed 10% of the population. Please people stop listening to anything the mass media have to say, start searching for independent media, it's there,
Znet, indy media, urban75!, schnewz, etc!
WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Znet, indy media, urban75!, schnewz, etc!
WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
S
Stuart Holmes
Guest
I'm wondering if their could be a bit of clarification about the argument here. It seems to me that those arguing there may be something legitimate about the bombing of Kabul etc. are doing so because they think there is no other way to stop Bin Laden etc. Those arguing against the bombing seem to be doing so because they think it will not succeed in stopping Bin Laden and cause further chaos.
So, my question here is would those against the war change their mind if it turned out that Bin Laden is caught tomorrow and there isn't widespread action in support of him.
And, at what point would those in favour of this war withdraw that support on the grounds that it was clearly not achieving the intended aims.
I am curious that few seem to be sticking to an absolute pro/anti position and that all the arguments actually reduce to pragamtic judgements based on pereption of the likely outcome.
Stuart
So, my question here is would those against the war change their mind if it turned out that Bin Laden is caught tomorrow and there isn't widespread action in support of him.
And, at what point would those in favour of this war withdraw that support on the grounds that it was clearly not achieving the intended aims.
I am curious that few seem to be sticking to an absolute pro/anti position and that all the arguments actually reduce to pragamtic judgements based on pereption of the likely outcome.
Stuart
stew it's part of a much bigger picture, most people happily watch the news and follow the view they present, one day it'll be pro the next a little less, and so on.
this behaviour of the west has been an on going onslaught for centuries, but especially since World war two, America's CIA have policed the world ever since. If bin laden was captured today the actions of the last couple of days would continue under the pretext that we have to get them all, this can mean anything from the leaders of the taliban, to a mis-guided desperate farmer with a gun. THe middle East to the west means nothing aexcept the big buck, oil, oil ,oil, the CIA are there to protect the fortune 500, the top corporations of the west, if their interests are even remotely questioned the Capitalist's International Army will certainly be there to overthrow, assainate, totrure, train armies and police, and buy off state officials to do anything in the name of the corporations interests.
this behaviour of the west has been an on going onslaught for centuries, but especially since World war two, America's CIA have policed the world ever since. If bin laden was captured today the actions of the last couple of days would continue under the pretext that we have to get them all, this can mean anything from the leaders of the taliban, to a mis-guided desperate farmer with a gun. THe middle East to the west means nothing aexcept the big buck, oil, oil ,oil, the CIA are there to protect the fortune 500, the top corporations of the west, if their interests are even remotely questioned the Capitalist's International Army will certainly be there to overthrow, assainate, totrure, train armies and police, and buy off state officials to do anything in the name of the corporations interests.
D
danray
Guest
Stuart to clarify for you then.
No I wouldn't suddenly support the war if they caught Bin tomorrorow.
I wouldn't support the war if they caught him, installed Walt Disney as president and they all lived happyly ever after.
I am against war full stop, and am epecially against wars that are continually stoked up to suit the political one upmanships of external regimes. All we are doing in afganistan is throwing another log on the fire.
No I wouldn't suddenly support the war if they caught Bin tomorrorow.
I wouldn't support the war if they caught him, installed Walt Disney as president and they all lived happyly ever after.
I am against war full stop, and am epecially against wars that are continually stoked up to suit the political one upmanships of external regimes. All we are doing in afganistan is throwing another log on the fire.
Similar threads
