National Walkout Against Fees 24.11.10

[Lock&Light]

You've got the exact reverse of mainstream debate on a subject, as usual.
The word "Holocaust" (with a capitalised "H") has been taken to be restricted to a specific event in history for the last 65 years, rightly or wrongly.
"Genocide" is a word of relatively-modern coinage, and was not applied to the Holocaust until recently (the last 25-30 years) even in academic circles.

While being accurate this is also totally pedantic, as usual.

 

[ViolentPanda]

So why don't the politicians vote they way the people who elected them want and expect?

(hint: because they're in favour of increased tuition fees)

To give a serious answer: Because we (the electorate) have no leverage on an MP, besides voting them out at some time in the future, and they know it.
MPs voting for their class interests was deeply rooted way before the universal franchise became a reality, and it has continued to this day (the Tories blatantly, and often paternalistically so). Oh, and for those who might ask "but don't Labour represent the working class?", perhaps the did to some degree up into the 1970s, but since then we've seen a "professionalisation" of MPs that means most are drawn from the ranks of the middle-classes, from the professions rather than the trades. Add that to the traditional placement of TU high muckamucks in safe seats, and you have a bunch of bureau-professional twazzocks who're going to choose party interests over the interests of their constituents every time.
This is why I often say that parliamentary democracy is a pseudo-democracy - a real democracy should ensure the wishes of the electorate, not the party, are uppermost in a representative's mind.

 

[ViolentPanda]

While being accurate this is also totally pedantic, as usual.

Thanks for that frankly banal (as usual) observation.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Has this been posted yet: http://nickclegg.me.uk

Mendacity, thy name is Clegg!

 

[Streathamite]

I'm now lobbying within the party for people to vote against the proposals having considered the strength of feeling.

oh ffs! You needed to 'consider' it? Rather than it being blindingly fucking obviousa as to what people's reactions would be to your party's craven lies and broken promises?

 

[dylans]

I'm now lobbying within the party for people to vote against the proposals having considered the strength of feeling.

Why? I thought the proposals were great. I thought the stupid plebs only had to read the proposals before we held spontaneous celebratory street parties and declared Clegg man of the year? What you really mean is "oh shit we have been caught lying through our teeth and we are facing electoral Armageddon, we had better throw them some crumbs before they burn the whole fucking bakery down.

Guess what? You're too late. We can smell blood. Time to keep pushing.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

I'm now lobbying within the party for people to vote against the proposals having considered the strength of feeling.

So after the thousands of furious students who have marched and rucked with the old bill in recent weeks it comes down to my one post on a message board? LOL, viva la revolucion

Do what you like, moon because unless you can get all the people who signed the pledge to honour their commitment it won't make a difference. I'm absolutely fucking livid at this government and your party's involvement in it. It's easy to be annoyed at the tories, we expect them to be cunts, but the vast majority of people weren't expecting you to be cunts. Yeah, we expected you to be shit, you're a political party after all, but to actually join in with the tories cuntery is beyond the fucking pale. I'm furious, more furious than i've ever been about a government actually. My atomised moaning and poor little me I can't do anything attitude has morphed into anger, and i'm not the only one i'm sure. Don't just think this is only about education cuts too, it's deeper than that and when the wider cuts begin to bite I think there's going to be a tsunami of shit heading your way. Even the police have openly admitted there's going to be more civil unrest in the near future. Have some balls, bring down this coalition before it's too late for you, that is if it isn't too late already and I suspect it is.

 

[magneze]

Fiver on moon23 turning out to be Nick Clegg.

 

[eoin_k]

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this up yet. Liberal conspiracy have some footage of the van before it was abandoned:

link

 

[Streathamite]

Why? I thought the proposals were great. I thought the stupid plebs only had to read the proposals before we held spontaneous celebratory street parties and declared Clegg man of the year? What you really mean is "oh shit we have been caught lying through our teeth and we are facing electoral Armageddon, we had better throw them some crumbs before they burn the whole fucking bakery down.

Guess what? You're too late. We can smell blood. Time to keep pushing.

This

 

[shaman75]

(1min20s onwards)

I think that this video gives a good insight into the mood and the anger of the demonstrators just after the main vandalism had been done. some of what the outspoken guy says in the video is rubbish, for example the police having insurance, I mean, Who would insure the police? Although many cynics would agree with the points he is making. This guy told me he was a speaker at speakers corner, he later stood on the wall and addressed the crowd with confidence and got a good reaction from the students. Also listen out for the comments from the Guardian camera man. He seem angered and eggier to make a point. the article from the day after was sympathetic, I wonder if his comments were as valued back at the news room.

It is important to mention that this was filmed at 3:07PM, around an hour after the police ‘kettled’ us in and after the main flashpoint of action. in my opinion this kind of destruction was to be expected and somewhat provoked by the police keeping everyone trapped for an uncertain amount of time.Although the violence is not to be condoned at a demonstration like this it is sadly inevitable and the decision of driving a riot van into the centre of the crowd seemed silly if not reckless and in my and many others opinion a little suspect. Note how at the end of the video the police were able to push back the crowd and take back the van with ease just after the press had taken the front page shots. earlier in the day a ring of peaceful protestors surrounded the van in a plea to halt the damage, they did. a ring of girls stopped all violence around the abandoned riot van. (Link to image > http://yfrog.com/08yvg0j) and the Met couldn’t

http://leotaylor.tumblr.com/

 

[killer b]

that guy seems to crop up on all the videos from last week... i assumed he was a semi-famous riot name...

 

[ymu]

He's right on the insurance point. Public sector vehicles are underwritten by the government. They are guaranteed to be able to pay up, so they don't need to hand the private sector a big fat profit for doing it.

/point of information

 

[shaman75]

that guy seems to crop up on all the videos from last week... i assumed he was a semi-famous riot name...

I have seen him before, probably 5 or 6 years ago, talking about capitalism and marxism at Speakers Corner. Very good speaker.

 

[shaman75]

Interesting how easy it was for the police to get their van back once there was nothing left to destroy. Didn't even need their riot helmets on.

 

[free spirit]

So after the thousands of furious students who have marched and rucked with the old bill in recent weeks it comes down to my one post on a message board? LOL, viva la revolucion

Do what you like, moon because unless you can get all the people who signed the pledge to honour their commitment it won't make a difference. I'm absolutely fucking livid at this government and your party's involvement in it. It's easy to be annoyed at the tories, we expect them to be cunts, but the vast majority of people weren't expecting you to be cunts. Yeah, we expected you to be shit, you're a political party after all, but to actually join in with the tories cuntery is beyond the fucking pale. I'm furious, more furious than i've ever been about a government actually. My atomised moaning and poor little me I can't do anything attitude has morphed into anger, and i'm not the only one i'm sure. Don't just think this is only about education cuts too, it's deeper than that and when the wider cuts begin to bite I think there's going to be a tsunami of shit heading your way. Even the police have openly admitted there's going to be more civil unrest in the near future. Have some balls, bring down this coalition before it's too late for you, that is if it isn't too late already and I suspect it is.

x 2

and I actively campaigned for the lib dems locally at the last election (and in 97 fwiw)

 

[treelover]

'I have seen him before, probably 5 or 6 years ago, talking about capitalism and marxism at Speakers Corner. Very good speaker.'

weird, I did too, only time i have been to speakers corner, he was very impressive

 

[shaman75]

that guy seems to crop up on all the videos from last week... i assumed he was a semi-famous riot name...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/herschell/3395795297/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heiko_Khoo

Heiko Khoo is a Marxist agitator currently based in London. He holds meetings at Hyde Park's Speakers Corner on Sunday afternoons (and has since 1986) and runs a weekly radio show on London's Arts Radio Station Resonance fm. [1] broadcast on 104.4fm across London. He has written for the website In Defense of Marxism and the journal Socialist Appeal and runs the speakers' corner web site [2]. He currently is a columnist for the Chinese State Council website China.org.cn

Khoo is a Hands Off Venezuela activist.

He lived in East Germany and witnessed the collapse of the Berlin Wall, [3] and was present on Tiananmen Square in June 1989. [4]

 

[treelover]

Oh dear, is he a Tankie?

 

[butchersapron]

He was IMT. He's a great speaker.

 

[treelover]

Is that his career 'marxist agitator'

 

[shaman75]

To Mark Field MP concerning Police Abdication of responsiblity on Nov 24th

Right Honourable Mark Field,

I am a PhD student at Kings College who attended the protest in Whitehall on the 24th of November. At the start of the gathering at Whitehall I saw the abandoned police van. I was most concerned that it might become a target for vandalism. Therefore before anyone had damaged it I went straight to the police in front of the Treasury and asked them why the van was there and suggested that they move it to protect it. When the police ignored my request for them to protect property and prevent a breach of the peace, I personally went the van and told students not to touch the van. This led to some students trying to stand between the van and a small group of protestors who wished to damage the vehicle.

I asked myself why did the police refuse to do take any notice when they were warned?

More distressing still was the fact that after graffitti was written on the van the police still refused to act.

Then some people began to vandalise the van, police still refused to act. Finally myself and a few dozen school girls stopped the attack on the van. But still the police refused to secure their van.

Nearly two hours later a more serious attack on the van took place in
the entire time the police too no action to prevent this damage to property.

The impact of this is well known to you. Please can you make enquiries of the police and government, asking why this happened? Please take this up as a matter of urgency as you are aware we are dealing with an ongoing issue.

I was most alarmed that the police then justified the kettling of children on the basis that the damage to the van was a breach of the peace.

From a study of the legal oath sworn by all serving police officers it appears that by refusing to act that the officers at the scene deliberately broke the spirit and letter of their oath to the Crown which reads

"I, ... of ... do solemnly and sincerely declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve the Queen in the office of constable, with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality, upholding fundamental human rights and according equal respect to all people; and that I will, to the best of my power, cause the peace to be kept and preserved and prevent all offences against people and property; and that while I continue to hold the said office I will to the best of my skill and knowledge discharge all the duties thereof faithfully according to law."

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/conten...entId=112752&linkToATVersionNumber=1&#1907883

Below I provide you with video evidence that shows that this abdication of duty continued for 1hr and 55 minutes during which all the officers present broke their oath.
.......
Evidence of Abdication of Police responsibility “to prevent all offences against people and property”

On this Sky News footage of the attack on the van you can see at 13.12 the van was intact except for some graffiti. School kids protect the van, and the TV covered this. Why don’t police intervene to do what these school girls are doing? If the crowds were considered violent then why did the police refuse to intervene to protect these young schoolgirls?



After the first video the students moved away from the van, in this video from CNN you can see there is no one between police lines and the van, yet the police did not secure their van, note the back windows are not broken. At 0:47 you can see police on the steps of the Treasury and almost no students in between, also at 0.49 you can see a clear view through to the main police line in front of Parliament square with almost no demonstrators in between, so why did the police not intervene then to protect their van? At 1.24 they show earlier footage to the end of the clip (compare numbers behind the reporter to confirm)



In the following video from Sky News you can see that it was 15.07 when the van was attacked again. I simply could not believe that British police would stand by for 1hr 55minutes without making any attempt to protect their van.



Please can you take this matter up with the utmost urgency?

Yours sincerely


Heiko Khoo

http://www.speakerscorner.net/policetricks/markfield

 

[shaman75]

Is that his career 'marxist agitator'

I'd say it's just what someone wrote on wikipedia

 

[killer b]

ah, he did seem fairly eloquent (why the cameras ended up on him so often i guess).

anyone listen to his show on resonance?

 

[ymu]

Oh, good lad!

(re: the letter)

 

[ymu]

I've sent the letter and link to Jenny Jones (Green, London Assembly and Metropolitan Police Authority) and Tom Brake (Lib Dem MP, on their committee for Home Affairs). I sent them some evidence of agent provocateurs at G20 and both were pleased to take it up - Tom witnessed a couple of them himself at the demo and kicked up as big a stink as a Lib Dem backbencher can.

Couldn't resist adding a stern PS for Tom on how he will be voting ...

 

[smokedout]

Couldn't resist adding a stern PS for Tom on how he will be voting ...

i strongly suspect it will be stern PS's to lib dem ministers that will break this coalition

 

[ymu]

Huh?

 

[killer b]

pierced sternum? we can but dream...

 

[shaman75]

Minister backs 'kettling' tactics

(UKPA) – 10 hours ago

Police were right to use controversial "kettling" tactics during last week's student protests in London, Policing Minister Nick Herbert has insisted.

In light of the "serious damage" and violence being caused to vehicles and buildings, Mr Herbert said the containment method was needed to stop a minority of troublemakers from running "rampage through the streets".

The Metropolitan Police has said the kettling - where protesters are surrounded by officers and prevented from leaving the cordon until given permission - was put in place as a "last resort".

http://www.google.com/hostednews/uk...zM2CRDIWgD0zzeBWA?docId=N0319161290949130269A