National Walkout Against Fees 24.11.10

[Prince Rhyus]

The kids are allright! I can't find it but i read a decent Guardian piece earlier about how today benefited without having certain group/s orchestrating things or having banners leading the protest from the front, i couldn't agree more. This was about feeling not group action.

This ^^^

The article is at http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/nov/24/student-demos-in-twitter-age?intcmp=239

Part of me thinks that the same will apply with the wider anti-cuts movement. As mentioned in previous threads, social networking has evolved at an unbelievable rate since the 2003 StWC marches. No organisation will be able to operate a traditional "command and control" system when disparate groups are able to react - pro-act even, using FB and Twitter feeds.

Such are the scale of the cuts that different groups will react differently to whichever service is being threatened. Anyone who tries to impose a command and control system - whether at a local or national level - will simply be bypassed.

 

[Prince Rhyus]

"Young school child"
"Student!"
"Sorry?"
"Student - sorry!"
"What person organised this protest?"
"I'm 21!"
"What??"
"I'm 21, I'm not young!"
"Well I can't just call you "student"!!"
"You could call me 'Dennis'"
"I didn't know you were called Dennis"
"Well you didn't bother to find out"
"Look, I did say sorry about the 'young pupil' bit"
"What I object to is that you automatically treat me like an inferior!"
"Well I am a police officer!"
"Oh police eh? And how d'you get that then? By oppressing the workers! By hanging onto outdated imperialist dogma that perpetuates the differences within our society that us students are protesting against today!"
"Dennis! There's some lovely new copies of "Socialist Worker" hot off the press! Oh...how d'you do?"
"How do you do good lady? Tell me, who is in charge of this protest?"
"No one's in charge of this protest"
"Then who is your leader?"
"We don't have a leader!"
"I told you! We are a random gathering of protestors guided by the hidden hand of an infinite number of Twitter feeds, facebook updates, blog postings and text messages!"
"Alright..."
"We take it in turns to post updates and write articles about the protests and the general direction of the movement"
"Yes"
"It's like having a convenor for the week, and each autonomous movement will have their own rota of convenors"
"Alright!!!"
"But all the decisions of the convenor have to be ratified by a committee of members who form part of each local autonomous movement."
"Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!"
"Order eh? Who does he think he is?"
"I am a police officer!"
"Well I didn't vote for you!"
"You don't vote for police officers!"
"Well how d'you become one?"
"After years of hard work and dedicated training, one passes through on parade in front of the Commissioner of the Metropolis, appointed by Her Majesty herself."
"Listen mate, passing through infront of an unelected appointee appointed by an old lady sitting on a throne wearing ancient pieces of ornate jewellery is no basis for a system of policing by consent. Policing by consent derives from a mandate from the masses, not some secret swearing-in ceremony run by the unelected elites!"
"Shut up! Shut up!!!"
"Oh! Now we see the violence inherent in the system!"
"Shut up or you'll be arrested!"
"Help, help! I'm being oppressed!"

 

[IC3D]

I was intruiged by those kids who came into school with letters from their parents giving them permission to walk out of school to take part in the protests. How middle class is that?!?

"Dear Mrs Smith

Oliver won't be in school this afternoon as he is taking part in a nationwide demonstration on fees that seeks to overthrow the imperialist capitalist oppressive regime that currently holds this nation in chains.

He will be back in class tomorrow.

Yours sincerely

Oliver's Mummy"

I saw more w/c youth than I have ever seen before on a demo in London standing up for their rights to an education.They are the ones looking the cuts in the face, so I would like to dispell the picture your making.

 

[frogwoman]

What he said ^^^

 

[Prince Rhyus]

I saw more w/c youth than I have ever seen before on a demo in London standing up for their rights to an education.They are the ones looking the cuts in the face, so I would like to dispell the picture your making.

The comment was more a take on the media reports - with several saying "[insert name of pupil] is only 14, but got her parents' permission to join the protest today. Here's what she had to say."

It reflects the "How dare these extremists hijack our protest!" articles coming from the Mail and Telegraph.

 

[AKA pseudonym]

Radio 5 running some sympathetic interviews with people who were on the protest and some currently occupying....

 

[paolo]

The comment was more a take on the media reports - with several saying "[insert name of pupil] is only 14, but got her parents' permission to join the protest today. Here's what she had to say."

It reflects the "How dare these extremists hijack our protest!" articles coming from the Mail and Telegraph.

You made me chuckle. Some people misread stuff.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

What he said ^^^

would you like a "like" button, love........?


I SAID would you like a "like" button, just nod your head dearie.....

 

[IC3D]

As far as I saw someone tried to smash a bus window once and everyone else stopped them chanting 'the buses our our friends'(veteran anarchists obv..), a breakout group off about 300 marched through the west end blocking of roads behind them and got some beeps of support from the congested traffic and the motorbike parking protesters before dispersing. The BBC skipped the facts basically.

 

[frogwoman]

Actually, yeah i wouldn't mind one, as long as t wasn't linked to FB.

 

[paolo]

everyone else stopped them chanting 'the buses our our friends'

Instant policy making

 

[IC3D]

Instant policy making

Oddly enough I'm sure I've said that that to someone before under different circumstances.

 

[paolo]

Oddly enough I'm sure I've said that that to someone before under different circumstances.

It's good stuff. Sometimes people try to parasite onto action that they aren't really part of. Or just get carried away and misjudge the mood.

There's something quite affirming about street democracy.

 

[moon23]

"Oh fuck the lot of them ....whiney little cunts, all busy getting pissed on a regular basis then whingeing they've got no money. The camera's and clothing seen today indicate that these idiots aren't short of cash and probably need to rethink what they spend their money on, if education is so important then some lifestyle changes need to be made.

Apparently now everyone has to go to University (we've even renamed every shit Polytechnic a University to help this objective) so there's even more of the self-obsessed pricks getting in the way, thinking the world owes them a living because they've got a degree.

Cut all student funding NOW and put it into apprenticeships, subsidising kids who learn to make and repair things, get out of bed and graft every day and who don't think they're Gods Gift to business at the age of 21. Unitechnicolleges are just businesses and will take on any old dross as long as the money's right these days. I'm seeing the results with the quality of people coming in to my line of work now...thick as pigshit springs to mind. So does dumbed down sheep. Come the revolution they'll be completely fucked with zero common sense and no photocopier to hide behind.

I am of the opinion that what I witnessed today only consolidated my suspicions about what students are. Total cocks. At a time when the difficult choices about where the axe is going to fall need to be made, of course an oversubscribed lifestyle choice is going to get it in the neck.

The spending power and lifestyle expectations of many students is quite high, certainly higher then when I was a student. You are probably right that not enough emphasis or social value is placed on learning useful trades that actually benefit people. Also it's now very hard to gain on the job experience, and you need some qualification to do almost anything.
Although I think there shouldn’t be a rise in tuition fees, if you really need to save money then having a system where students contribute more but only have to start paying it pack when they have a liveable wage seems pretty reasonable.

My main bugbear as someone who repays a student loan (and protested against Labour introducing them) is the inter-generational unfairness. Essentially someone 10 years older than me would have had no debt and have got grants and now be significantly better off.

Then again I benefited from the increased University places available and expectation of University attendance. As a society with 50% heading off to University then obviously the cost factor on the public purse is going to become more of an issue

I’d like to see some of these wealthy baby boomers who benefited from free education, massive rises in their property prices and now early retirement deals on good pensions pay a bit more.

 

[Hocus Eye.]

I saw the news coverage of this on the Beeb early in the evening. Much later in the pub I saw the screen without sound of the Sky News coverage showing aerial views of the incidents and the way the police moved through the crowds. When I saw the police van being rocked, it gladdened my heart that this generation of of students has the bottle to take this action.

The students have worked harder than many of the people of my generation, in an education system based on performance targets and not inspiration, a National Curriculum designed mechanistically to be able to categorise, classify and produce numbers for accountants to measure. They have gone through such a hostile and sterile system, and survived, achieving better results, based on the system in place, each year than the year before. They are then told that the reward of getting a place in Higher Education is to be denied them unless they come from a background of parents who have money to spare. This in a time of increasing insecurity of employment, the 'proletarianisation' and de-skilling of the educated workforce. Does anyone wonder why they are angry. I support them wholeheartedly. If some glass gets broken, so be it. I would like to see some politicians broken - metaphorically - to be disgraced and dismissed. Let us hope that the student protests can be connected up with the other protests, those of the unemployed, the public sector facing cuts, the people on benefits being eroded.

Also let the co-ordinated protests and actions that follow in this country, be connected up to those identical issues in other countries. This is not a local British issue. It is an international one. Politicians in all countries are bowing down to the propanda of the IMF and "The Markets" as they call for cuts in public expenditure. Let's give politicians in all countries something to fear from their own constituents that is greater than the fear created by the Murdoch press on behalf of international millionaires and the World Bank. If we in Britain with a cabinet that was not elected by the people, and containing 18 millionaires lie down to be trampled on then we will deserve the destruction of the social, economic and political gains that our predecessors fought and won for us against the rulers in their time.

 

[moon23]

I saw the news coverage of this on the Beeb early in the evening. Much later in the pub I saw the screen without sound of the Sky News coverage showing aerial views of the incidents and the way the police moved through the crowds. When I saw the police van being rocked, it gladdened my heart that this generation of of students has the bottle to take this action.

I wish they had the maturity to engage in the democratic process rather than monkey's tea party smashing up of things.

The students have worked harder than many of the people of my generation, in an education system based on performance targets and not inspiration, a National Curriculum designed mechanistically to be able to categorise, classify and produce numbers for accountants to measure. They have gone through such a hostile and sterile system, and survived, achieving better results, based on the system in place, each year than the year before.

Good point, the Labour education system of central control, more targets and teaching to exams driven by performance tables is a pretty uninspiring dehumanising way to teach.

They are then told that the reward of getting a place in Higher Education is to be denied them unless they come from a background of parents who have money to spare.

Ok but the poorest people will actually end up paying less under the proposed system, and you only have to pay it back once you are on a liveable wage so no one is being denied. Possibly put off by the hysteria of the NUS mind.

 

[wtfftw]

I'm liking the student occupations. Warwick have a ustream set up. Here - not online at the mo. UCL were tweeting about skyping with other occupations and um, having dance offs.

 

[ferrelhadley]

24 November 2010 6:24PM

@roachclip

A question - Why was an empty police van, with no policemen anywhere near it, parked in the middle of Whitehall when the students were marching down Whitehall from Trafalgar Square to where the police were waiting for them at the Parliament Square end of Whitehall.

NatalieHanman

We've got someone looking into this and (hopefully) writing about it for tomorrow morning.

By the way, Laurie Penny is still at the protest so won't be joining this thread for a while.

LinkWell you never know, once in a while, just every once in a while........

 

[wtfftw]

Some blog about the police van. Video n pictures n shiz. http://http://www.sumpter.org.uk/?p=300 (via #demo2010)

 

[wtfftw]

UCL solidarity and demands petition http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ucloccupation/

 

[Hocus Eye.]

I wish they had the maturity to engage in the democratic process rather than monkey's tea party smashing up of things.


Good point, the Labour education system of central control, more targets and teaching to exams driven by performance tables is a pretty uninspiring dehumanising way to teach.


Ok but the poorest people will actually end up paying less under the proposed system, and you only have to pay it back once you are on a liveable wage so no one is being denied. Possibly put off by the hysteria of the NUS mind.

You can wish all you like moon23, but it is politicians and their lackies like yourself who have discredited what used to be thought of a "democratic process". it isn't any such thing.

Yes I know it is a good point about a "system of central control, more targets and teaching to exams driven by performance tables is a pretty uninspiring dehumanising way to teach". But you are just trying to make a political scoring point about it being inflicted by the so called Labour Party. I give no credence to the Labour Party of which I was many years ago an active member. I left the party when it went off and adopted Tory policies, unlike you who stayed in your unprincipled LibDem gang. You have no principles.

You keep repeating the party line that the poorest people will pay less and only have to pay it back once on a 'liveable wage'. This is not really true. The system has been tweaked to make it look better than it is. You are a sucker for believing what your party wants the rest of us to believe.The fact that universities have been given the right to charge fees up to £9,000 is frightening to a sixth former who is hoping to set out on a degree course with no certainty of a worthwhile job at the end of it. When the hated Labour party started on this road the universities were allowed to charge £3,000 while the Russell Group of universities wanted to be allowed to charge £7,000. The new figure of £9,000 is excessive. The generation who are putting these charges in place were given grants not loans, although as it was means tested I suppose the 18 millionaires in the cabinet will not have got one..

 

[ferrelhadley]

The vehicle roof number is BQV.
http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2...1/24/shubert.uk.student.protests.van.cnn.html

 

[ymu]

ffs! They couldn't even take their old paperwork off the rust bucket decoy. Police aware, indeed.

 

[killer b]

I wish they had the maturity to engage in the democratic process rather than monkey's tea party smashing up of things.

think of this as a democratic safety valve. our only other option is to let you scum run roughshod for the next 5 years.

frankly, get to fuck.

 

[killer b]

The generation who are putting these charges in place were given grants not loans, although as it was means tested I suppose the 18 millionaires in the cabinet will not have got one..

the maintenance grant was means tested, but fees were still paid by the state weren't they?

 

[killer b]

and before i forget: moon23 - you're a cunt.

 

[ymu]

the maintenance grant was means tested, but fees were still paid by the state weren't they?

Yes. The toffs paid no fees at all, and a lot of them got maintenance grants because their parents technically had very low incomes (I knew someone on a full grant who had two younger brothers at Eton).

More to the point, it makes fuck all difference to a toff. Even if daddy makes them pay their own fees, they're mostly destined for high-paying jobs which will enable them to pay the lot off very quickly. But the majority of graduates in the UK are employed in the public sector, and many in the private sector are not earning massive amounts. For these people, it makes a huge difference - they'll be accruing interest and paying the equivalent of a second pension for the rest of their working lives. I can't afford my fucking pension as it is - I'd be screwed if i had to pay it twice.

This fucking smokescreen about not paying it back until you're on a decent wage and the poor paying less is a fucking lie. Those who cannot be confident of a highly paid job at the end of it cannot afford to go.

 

[madzone]

I'm dreading going in today. I don't want to spend all day with those lazy apathetic little twats

 

[chilango]

I wish they had the maturity to engage in the democratic process rather than monkey's tea party smashing up of things.

They did.

They voted for people who lied to them.

 

[magneze]

Ok but the poorest people will actually end up paying less under the proposed system, and you only have to pay it back once you are on a liveable wage so no one is being denied. Possibly put off by the hysteria of the NUS mind.

Garbage. Those who can afford to pay 9K per year will pay just that, everyone else gets stung with a loan at commercial rates of interest. Can you explain how that makes it fairer?