National Walkout Against Fees 24.11.10

[Divisive Cotton]

Was yesterday the first political flash mob? I think it was - it's something that the authorities have been dreading for years; an angry, easy mobilised crowd using the latest communications technology.

 

[killer b]

any thoughts on what effect yesterday's kettling will have? it must've been a frightening experience for many of the protesters, and i wouldn't blame them if they thought twice about getting involved again (which i guess is the purpose of the kettle in the first place). alternatively it could fire them up...

 

[madzone]

I'm hoping that they'll see some solidarity from people via the social networks and it will fire them up.

 

[radio_atomica]

any thoughts on what effect yesterday's kettling will have? it must've been a frightening experience for many of the protesters, and i wouldn't blame them if they thought twice about getting involved again (which i guess is the purpose of the kettle in the first place). alternatively it could fire them up...

The logical answer would be to mobilise even more up and down the country to get involved in their home towns and the towns where they study. I don't think enough walked out this time, I was very unimpressed that UCLAN didn't do anything other than a petition, I was at the university flyering and most of them didn't really know that a lot of other students around the country were walking out, occupying, protesting etc. The more it goes on, the more people will know how to cope, its obvious that any protest over a certain size will get kettled in now whether there is danger of violence or not so people need to be prepared with warm clothing, bottles of water and instructions on what to do if they're arrested. If you can't gather in huge numbers in London, gather in smaller numbers everywhere else, and get everyone to join in, its not like there's any faffing booking places on coaches and travelling etc you just turn up and bellow at the town hall or whatever.

 

[ymu]

Yes. Generalised mayhem is the answer to the kettle, and what a fine answer it is.

 

[fractionMan]

I wish they had the maturity to engage in the democratic process rather than monkey's tea party smashing up of things.

This is one of the most dishonest things you've ever posted. You're turning into slime.

 

[_angel_]

the maintenance grant was means tested, but fees were still paid by the state weren't they?

Yes the people instigating this, Cameron, etc they got their education at our expense and now want to make sure no one else has the same rights.
I know I wouldn't have gone myself if I was 18 now.

 

[dylans]

Ok but the poorest people will actually end up paying less under the proposed system

If this is the case please tell me why the Lib dems initially lied and promised to scrap fees? If the proposed system is so great for the poor, why the need to lie?

 

[Crispy]

I wish they had the maturity to engage in the democratic process

It's a fucking sham.

 

[nino_savatte]

I wish they had the maturity to engage in the democratic process rather than monkey's tea party smashing up of things.

What do you mean by "democratic process" and why is it relevant in this instance? I hope that question isn't too difficult for you. If it is, I can always provide subtitles.

 

[dylans]

Moon. See, I'm a bit confused here so help me out. The party line is that they initially opposed an increase in fees but then, on joining the coalition, they realised that the economic situation was so bad that they had to U turn on that promise for the good of the economy. That they inherited an economic situation so bad that they couldn't keep their promise to oppose fee rises. We all had to tighten our belts etc. So if this is the line then it implies that they recognise that tuition fee rises are indeed an attack on the poor but one that is necessary because of the so called "economic crisis.

That was the excuse for breaking their promise to oppose fee rises right?
But now the line has changed.According to you (and Clegg yesterday) Now the fee rises are no longer unpleasant but necessary. They are now GOOD for the poor. They are progressive. The poor should be thanking him. Which of course raises the question, if the fee rises are so good for the poorest students, why did he initially oppose them?

Forgive us for treating this line with the utter contempt it deserves. Clegg has hung himself by his own words and no manner of twisting in the wind will get him off the noose.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

I wish they had the maturity to engage in the democratic process rather than monkey's tea party smashing up of things.

What democratic process would that be then? You need to realise we don't live in a democracy, we live in a polyarchy. That essentially means that the only say we have in the 'democratic process' is when we pop along to the polling station every few years and pick which millionaire we want to lead us, then we wander back to the side lines where we can voice our opinions but ultimately have no say in any decisions. Once the people we chose have power they do what they like anyway, as evidenced by Clegg and co going back on tuition fee pledges.

Don't worry about the facts though eh, moon? You just keep having a nice, long drink from that liberal democract well.

 

[shaman75]

I wish they had the maturity to engage in the democratic process rather than monkey's tea party smashing up of things

I was there yesterday. A lot of these protesters are still in school. As the voting age is 18, I guess they don't actually have much say in the democratic process. They could write to their MP I suppose, but why would he/ she really be bothered, given that it's not going to get him/ her a vote?

I've written to my MP twice in the past 6 months. Still waiting for a response. Probably too busy to do things like representing constituents.

It's also quite refreshing to see people speaking on camera for the news and having a vague idea of why they're there, what the issues are and for that all to be conveyed by someone who doesn't seem to have been drinking all day.

 

[newbie]

Some blog about the police van. Video n pictures n shiz. http://http://www.sumpter.org.uk/?p=300 (via #demo2010)

that link is broken, this one works

http://www.sumpter.org.uk/?p=300

towards the end someone claims

I was there – I saw someone grab a police aware sticker from inside the van and stick it on the front of the van.

 

[sunnysidedown]

that link is broken, this one works

http://www.sumpter.org.uk/?p=300

towards the end someone claims

the sticker, rust, coloured markings are pretty irrelevant to me - the van was dubious as soon as I saw it live on the BBC.

 

[dennisr]

"I was there – I saw someone grab a police aware sticker from inside the van and stick it on the front of the van."



You don't need a conspiracy theory to state the obvious - deliberate set up by coppers

 

[killer b]

really shit report from the bbc.

the sneering at the marxist teen is particularly telling...

 

[rioted]

Once the people we chose have power they do what they like anyway, as evidenced by Clegg and co going back on tuition fee pledges.

Surely this was plainly evident when Labour went back on their manifesto pledge not to introduce them in the first place?

 

[moon23]

They did.

They voted for people who lied to them.

Lot's of them voted Labour and Conservative, those who voted Lib Dem are lucky the party is improving on the plans drawn up by the majority Tory coalition

 

[killer b]

fucking tory parrot.

 

[moon23]

What do you mean by "democratic process" and why is it relevant in this instance? I hope that question isn't too difficult for you. If it is, I can always provide subtitles.

I just wonder how many of these kids who are getting whipped up by the left into thinking property destruction is the best way to get your own way have engaged in the democratic process. How many have written to their MP's gone to see Lib Dem MPs to discuss the propsals, run stalls to make their case to the public or held public meetings etc?

 

[nino_savatte]

I just wonder how many of these kids who are getting whipped up by the left into thinking property destruction is the best way to get your own way have engaged in the democratic process. How many have written to their MP's gone to see Lib Dem MPs to discuss the propsals, run stalls to make their case to the public or held public meetings etc?

Do you get these ideas from the Telegraph? What do you mean by "whipped up by the left"? Furthermore is property more important than people?

As for writing to Lib Dem MPs. You're having a laugh, right?

 

[ymu]

Lot's of them voted Labour and Conservative, those who voted Lib Dem are lucky the party is improving on the plans drawn up by the majority Tory coalition

See, this is where you really are just fucking lying. Coalition governments are often unstable because the smallest party/ies can bring down the government any time they feel like it. Why the fuck haven't you tossers done that yet? The only bit of actual power you have, and you're not going to use it. What use principles, eh?

 

[butchersapron]

I just wonder how many of these kids who are getting whipped up by the left into thinking property destruction is the best way to get your own way have engaged in the democratic process. How many have written to their MP's gone to see Lib Dem MPs to discuss the propsals, run stalls to make their case to the public or held public meetings etc?

You really don't get it do you? Students were mugged by the democratic process - they were deliberately lied to by the lib-dems and conned into supporting them. The democratic process is why they're out on the streets. Why would they want to fall for the same trick twice?

 

[butchersapron]

Lot's of them voted Labour and Conservative, those who voted Lib Dem are lucky the party is improving on the plans drawn up by the majority Tory coalition

The plans need not go ahead at all. They're only going to because you've allowed them to do so. Far from watering anything down you've enabled them to be imposed. You support them. Do you really think anyone is going to buy this handwashing? These are your plans. You may not realise that but the electorate seem to.

 

[Balbi]

How many have written to their MP's gone to see Lib Dem MPs to discuss the propsals, run stalls to make their case to the public or held public meetings etc?

I've done all of them. The only reason I didn't join the vast majority of yesterdays marchers who were peaceful to protest was because of work.

 

[rioted]

Why would they want to fall for the same trick twice?

Why do they? Over and over and over again?

 

[dylans]

Lot's of them voted Labour and Conservative, those who voted Lib Dem are lucky the party is improving on the plans drawn up by the majority Tory coalition

conveniently ignored my question in favour of pious finger wagging I see. Let me repeat it in easy sentences. If the tuition fees plans are so great for poor students why did Clegg initially oppose them and then justify his U turn in terms of unfortunate necessity? If they are such a gift to the lucky poor students why didn't he initially support them in those terms instead of condemning them?

 

[rekil]

Anyone see the students' press conference on sky? Just saw a bit of it and was impressed, particularly with the lady who spoke last and stressed the need to link opposition to education cuts with that of the wider cuts, but she got cut off when she brought up the abandoned police van issue.

 

[The Octagon]

Ah, the good old Mail, managing to work it's raging misogny into coverage of the riots

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ST-Students-streets-girls-leading-charge.html