frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
yep i can imagine ... isn't china involved somehow as well?
i really know very little about it
Mumbai: coordinated terrorist attacks, westerners targetted
- Thread starter Belushi
- Start date
yep i can imagine ... isn't china involved somehow as well?
i really know very little about it
JHE
.
Is there anyone, other than poor nutty Ninotxi, who thinks that the recent dramatic murders in Bombay are NOT the work of Islamoshites, but are the work of intolerant Hindus - or Cornish nationalists or Ninotxi's chums in ETA or the train spotters etc?
Daft self-deluding Islamophile twits like Ninotxi don't really matter, unless there are lots of gullible people who believe the Ninotxian shite. Are there? My guess is that there are very very few.
Daft self-deluding Islamophile twits like Ninotxi don't really matter, unless there are lots of gullible people who believe the Ninotxian shite. Are there? My guess is that there are very very few.
rollinder
Dont walk away in silence
hipipol
Peckham Wry
Biased, but not overly so;
http://www.greaterkashmir.com/
Biased, but tje other way
http://www.kashmirtimes.com/
Truth seems to be hard to find re the Valley!!!
Good luck Luv
By the way, you'd love kasmir, its gorgeous
Indian allegations alarm Pakistan
The BBC are reporting that Pakistan is concerned that tensions will arise with India following Pakistani links between the Mumbai gunmen
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7757031.stm
The BBC are reporting that Pakistan is concerned that tensions will arise with India following Pakistani links between the Mumbai gunmen
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7757031.stm
Jonti
what the dormouse said
Yes, but for whom?
One way of looking at events is that kashmiri islamic militants have succeeded in opening a second front in their war against Pakistan.
One way of looking at events is that kashmiri islamic militants have succeeded in opening a second front in their war against Pakistan.
One thing's for sure:- the Bush/Blair invasion of Afghanistan (a windy, knee-jerk reaction to the crimes of 911) continues to destabilise South Asia, much to the Islamicists' favour.
And here's another interesting one,
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...ut-bombings-blamed-on-islamists-14076306.html
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
do you really think that Kashmir was a land of love and joy prior to the invasion of Afghanistan?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
You're the nutter, sunshine. You're the one who is singularly obsessed with Islam. Suggesting that I'm an "Islamophile" is rather typical of your one-dimensional thought processes. Cunt.
Your post has been reported.
ETA: Though I realise that only certain poster's complaints are ever taken seriously.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Potentially yes. If I understand the military situation correctly, the Indian military has overwhelming superiority in terms of conventional forces, but both sides have nukes. So you really don't want them getting into an all-out war with each other.
I seem to recall also that Pakistan favours some kind of 'limited offensive' concept that sounds a bit like the Egyptian strategy in 1973. Take a chunk of territory before the opposition can react, then hold onto it like grim death so you can use it as a bargaining counter while you do a political deal. Didn't work too well for the Egyptians in 1973 (although that was arguably due to the Syrians messing up) and it might not work terribly well in this case either.
hipipol
Peckham Wry
The civilian Pakistani govt hasnt ever really been able to control the Army
While Nawaz Sharif was PM and was in Simla having peace takes with Vajpayee, his army, led by Musharraf was busy invading a bit of India - the Kargil war, WITHOUT the PMs knowledge and that was back in the 90s.
A mix of regular army and various kasmiri jihadis built themselves a fortress on top of a mountain, then started shelling Indian troops below, all inside India
Musharraf was in the habit of going to Jihadis funerals (people had been killed carrying out attacks in both India and Indian controlled Kasmir) back in the day and only started trying to dismantle them AFTER they started trying to top him
Its perfectly fair for Qureshi to go on TV and say the govt had nothing to do with the recent Mumbai attacks, as they have fuck all control over anything in their poor benighted country
While Nawaz Sharif was PM and was in Simla having peace takes with Vajpayee, his army, led by Musharraf was busy invading a bit of India - the Kargil war, WITHOUT the PMs knowledge and that was back in the 90s.
A mix of regular army and various kasmiri jihadis built themselves a fortress on top of a mountain, then started shelling Indian troops below, all inside India
Musharraf was in the habit of going to Jihadis funerals (people had been killed carrying out attacks in both India and Indian controlled Kasmir) back in the day and only started trying to dismantle them AFTER they started trying to top him
Its perfectly fair for Qureshi to go on TV and say the govt had nothing to do with the recent Mumbai attacks, as they have fuck all control over anything in their poor benighted country
I still think East and West Punjab will be reunited within the next 10 years.
Pakistan is a failed state unable to maintain it's borders. Kept afloat by IMF loans and Western military support.
Limited autonomy within a federal India is the areas only long term future. IMHO.
and should probably belong to the Sihks who have suffered themselves and great deal, but who would want to be stuck between Pakistan and India
Yes really. The U.S.- India Nuclear Civil Agreement is the Nixon in China moment. Pakistan could look to China but they have their own problems in the western provinces.
There will be blood.
All sides have suffered. We, the British, really fucked up independence.
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Ah yes, a state dominated by a single religious group. That always works.
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
So when people kill each other in 2008, that's our fault, is it?
I was watching the History of Scotland programme yesterday evening. That Edward Longshanks was a right tartar, so he was. I blame the English for all that's gone wrong in Scotland since the thirteenth centiury.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
not our fault per se, but like dropping a stone into a pond you can't avoid the ripples that come after it.
Why? they would be a minority in any reunited historical Punjab.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
I've watched that on BBC iPlayer, but it suffers from low production values imo: a lot of meaningless, ponderous shots of gargoyles and grainy but silent, re-enactments with lots of earnest commentary from Neil Oliver (who tends to mug the camera a bit) I much prefer Scotland's Clans.
Jonti
what the dormouse said
The people whose "fault" this was, are the planners, financiers, and foot soldiers of the cult responsible (not to deny that these events are thrown up by wider imperial and economic conflicts).
As a coup de guerre it's another masterwork from the kinds of minds that brought us 911. They chose a high profile target, the sort of place almost every media muppet knows, and ensured the horror and agony went on for days, with much media hysteria and death porn.
In the aftermath, we're left contemplating the fact that there are countless other places where this kind of "take and hold to the death" rampage could be executed, given the money, political will, and supply of indoctrinated foot soldiers.
As a coup de guerre it's another masterwork from the kinds of minds that brought us 911. They chose a high profile target, the sort of place almost every media muppet knows, and ensured the horror and agony went on for days, with much media hysteria and death porn.
In the aftermath, we're left contemplating the fact that there are countless other places where this kind of "take and hold to the death" rampage could be executed, given the money, political will, and supply of indoctrinated foot soldiers.
Independence from British rule for India and Pakistan was in 1947. Only 61 years ago.
What does that mean?
hipipol
Peckham Wry
I think you'll find that the Imperial context is not necessarily that of the Brit Raj, but rather the Invasion by Babur which led to the founding of the Moghul Empre.
There really is an astonishing ego at work which claims the mea culpa, we (The Britsh) did these things to them and we have ruined their lives - what makes anyone think that "we" are that fucking important? We were a mere blip in Indias history - we didn't settle there - everybody talking about "home" and building the odd faux Surrey bollocks like Simla - only for a hundred years or so did it even slow the battle between Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, etc -Aurungzeb spent virtually his entire life on campaign trying to take Hindhu kingdoms into the Moghul sphere
He didnt exactly get on with the Sikhs either - possibly why Sikh troops were very happy to help the British lay waste to Delhi in 1857 - they may not have liked us much after the Sikh wars resulting in the annexation of the Punjab they hated the Moghuls. We only wanted to rule and tax them, not wipe them off the face of the earth.
After the invading Arab Muslim armies took Sindh in the early 8thc (Please note that some 500 years before, during the time of the Hindu SenGupta Kings in the Ganges plain, Sind had been ruled by someone claiming direct descent for one of Alexanders the Greats generals!!!!!) they regularly raided into India, ie the land beyond the Indus - from whence the name is derived
We are talking about 1000 years of an arguement that fuck all to do with us, we were a mere short time overlay - something that Jinnah was well aware of when as leader of the Muslim League he demanded Partition -Muhammad Iqbal had suggested it as early as 1930 when there seemed no likelyhood of sudden Brit departures - WW2 and the UK subsequent bankruptsy sort of hastened things somewhat - we got the National Health Service, India got partition and all the communal hatreds spilled out - funny how very few make the connection between the benefits of the post war labour govt lead by a modest man with "much to be modest about" had some fucking awful consequences elsewhere - but in all honesty, as soon as hand of suppresion was lifted, there would have been rivers of blood, however slowly it had been done, while there were indigenous politicians (on all sides) prepared to whip up frenzy and hatred
The point I'm making is that it was not, nor is it still, in some way all our fault.
What was our fault is that in the time we were the top dog, we did fuck all to try to heal these centuries old rifts - though I doubt with even the best will it would have been possible, an attempt would have at least been a step in the right direction
hipipol
Peckham Wry
You are a total arse, there aint no other way to put it.
hipipol
Peckham Wry
1Oh yeah, cos the Yanks are selling nuclear tech to India, Pakistan will rollover will it? Idiot
2 Testing your knowledge, it couldn't be the Punjab - Panch Ab - Land of the Five Rivers - add a river of blood, no longer the Punjab - Chahab - doesn't have the same weight, does it?
3There had NEVER been a united single country of the size of that controlled under the Raj - it only got that big as a result of piecemeal additions and conquests - modern India has huge problems stopping various parts cesseding back to their original, independant status. So it would have been impossible to have just waved Cheerio and left everyone with a smile on their chops - though I agree, that Mountbatten was an utter twat
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