Motorway vs dual carriageway lane widths?

[scalyboy]

Bit of a weird question but here goes: I'm currently having driving lessons.

I am now relaxed and comfortable driving in urban (30mph) areas, but due to far less driving experience on them, am somewhat tense and a bit nervous on dual carriageways with national speed limit. Last week and before, in the slow lane at c.50mph I felt I was at risk of drifting right into the middle lane; since at higher speeds it only takes a small movement of the steering wheel to significantly alter the car's position.

The instructor said last week my position was OK, but I kept glancing at my right wing mirror to check that I wasn't veering over the line...Too far on the right - maybe because I was unconsciously keeping away from the kerb....

Anyway.

Today my instructor took us onto a motorway (a recent change in the law apparently means it's permissible for learners to practice on motorways). It seemed fine, I remained firmly in the middle of my lane.

I commented on this to the instructor, saying it felt easier today.
He mused aloud whether motorway lanes are wider... we then came off the motorway and went onto the A1 for comparison purposes, lane width seemed about the same to me.

Either motorway lanes are wider, or I am getting more relaxed at driving on major roads.

TL;DR Are motorway lanes wider than other major roads?

 

[l'Otters]

At a guess, it probably varies, and motorway lanes are probably wider.
The smart motorway upgrade roadworks have been going on for years, those sections often have temporary lane markings and are a lot narrower than the usual motorway lanes. Fucking unnerving being overtaken by an artic in them. And when there's a section of motorway closed and the traffic all diverted down some A roads, it definitely feels a lot tighter.

 

[weltweit]

Don't know but they could be. You probably are also getting used to driving a little faster. I know that during road works they sometimes slim down the motorway lane widths and then it does require a bit more concentration to stay in lane.

 

[scalyboy]

At a guess, it probably varies, and motorway lanes are probably wider.
The smart motorway upgrade roadworks have been going on for years, those sections often have temporary lane markings and are a lot narrower than the usual motorway lanes. Fucking unnerving being overtaken by an artic in them. And when there's a section of motorway closed and the traffic all diverted down some A roads, it definitely feels a lot tighter.

Thanks, and re. artics, Christ yes, when they overtake they do seem awful close, but that may be just my perception All the more reason to stay well in my lane and on my side of the broken line…

 

[scalyboy]

You probably are also getting used to driving a little faster.

Cheers, yes I think so. I hope so anyway! I’ve told my instructor I want to spend at least 30 minutes on dual carriageways / motorways each lesson, as it’s the only way I’ll get relaxed about them. It’s definitely getting easier - a few weeks ago I would be gripped by fear when changing lanes!

 

[weltweit]

Cheers, yes I think so. I hope so anyway! I’ve told my instructor I want to spend at least 30 minutes on dual carriageways / motorways each lesson, as it’s the only way I’ll get relaxed about them. It’s definitely getting easier - a few weeks ago I would be gripped by fear when changing lanes!

For me the initial getting up to speed to merge into the motorway from the slip road was the trickiest thing to get comfortable with.

 

[existentialist]

Cheers, yes I think so. I hope so anyway! I’ve told my instructor I want to spend at least 30 minutes on dual carriageways / motorways each lesson, as it’s the only way I’ll get relaxed about them. It’s definitely getting easier - a few weeks ago I would be gripped by fear when changing lanes!

I can't find a source for this, but from recollection, "A" road dual carriageway lanes are usually 3 metres wide, motorway ones around 3.5m. Strangely, the middle lane is usually 5cm wider than the other two, on motorways.

 

[T & P]

(The screenshot below is of the A3 near Rayners Park)

They certainly do feel a bit wider, plus in many or most cases they will have a wider hard shoulder.

Some dual carriageway A-roads can certainly feel as wide regardless of whether they have two or three lanes, but then some others are decisively tight as fuck. The A3 becomes a three-lane road by Richmond Park, but for a number of miles it does look narrower, even if you mentally block out the lack of hard shoulder. Look at this screenshot from Google Maps; there are but a few spare inches either side of the lorries

 

[scalyboy]

I can't find a source for this, but from recollection, "A" road dual carriageway lanes are usually 3 metres wide, motorway ones around 3.5m. Strangely, the middle lane is usually 5cm wider than the other two, on motorways.

Cheers, 0.5m shouldn’t make much difference, but it did feel easier today on the M25. Hopefully it’s also down to me becoming more comfortable at higher speeds too.

 

[scalyboy]

(The above screenshot is of the A3 near Rayners Park)

View attachment 289867They certainly do feel a bit wider, plus in many or most cases they will have a wider hard shoulder.

Some dual carriageway A-roads can certainly feel as wide regardless of whether they have two or three lanes, but then some others are decisively tight as fuck. The A3 becomes a three-lane road by Richmond Park, but for a number of miles it does look narrower, even if you mentally block out the lack of hard shoulder. Look at this screenshot from Google Maps; there are but a few spare inches either side of the lorries

Poundland lorry on the left is how I felt I was positioned, a well tight fit, but today I said to the instructor “how much room do I have on the left / until the kerb?” and he said about 1 metre. Although his Yaris is clearly gonna be narrower than the Poundland!

 

[T & P]

Screenshot of the M4 for comparison. Definitely wider.

 

[scalyboy]

For me the initial getting up to speed to merge into the motorway from the slip road was the trickiest thing to get comfortable with.

Yes, I can see that will be difficult. Did it today no probs but I had the instructor to guide me! TBH it’s taken me a while to get the hang of changing lanes at e.g. 50mph…

 

[T & P]

Poundland lorry on the left is how I felt I was positioned, a well tight fit, but today I said to the instructor “how much room do I have on the left / until the kerb?” and he said about 1 metre. Although his Yaris is clearly gonna be narrower than the Poundland!

The speed one is travelling at also has a massive impact on your perception that might be tight or not. This is perfectly fine and a good brain safety device mechanism of course.

 

[scalyboy]

View attachment 289872Screenshot of the M4 for comparison. Definitely wider.

That’s more like it!

 

[weltweit]

Yes, I can see that will be difficult. Did it today no probs buy I had the instructor to guide me! TBH it’s taken me a while to get the hang of changing lanes at e.g. 50mph…

These days I get up to 70 or more on the slip road and just drive into a gap, people are usually pretty good at getting out of the way.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

Lane widths are determined by the design speed of the road (specified in the Design Manual for Roads and Bridges), so would be designed to the same standards for a high speed dual carriageway and a motorway. They can vary though, e.g. lane widths should be widened an extra 300-600mm when there's a bend of radius below 400m.

 

[weltweit]

Mirror signal maneuver - do they still preach that?

 

[T & P]

Lane widths are determined by the design speed of the road (specified in the Design Manual for Roads and Bridges), so would be designed to the same standards for a high speed dual carriageway and a motorway. They can vary though, e.g. lane widths should be widened an extra 300-600mm when there's a bend of radius below 400m.

Yes, that’s the cruncher I guess. The stretch of the A3 I referred to above has a 50 mph limit. But sections of A-roads with 70 mph limits are definitely wider.

 

[scalyboy]

Mirror signal maneuver - do they still preach that?

Oh yes. Also, check the rear view mirror before braking - something examiners are quite hot on I’m told. Makes sense, especially if someone is right up your arse behind you…

 

[scalyboy]

Yes, that’s the cruncher I guess. The stretch of the A3 I referred to above has a 50 mph limit. But sections of A-roads with 70 mph limits are definitely wider.

Maybe that’s it; some of the dual carriageways I’ve been on have been 50 mph limits. So maybe those were the ones I thought were tight fits

 

[T & P]

Mirror signal maneuver - do they still preach that?

I believe so. Sadly many drivers indicate first, broadcasting their intention to change lanes to those around them and expect others to be accommodating to their wishes, then manoeuvre, then check their mirror to ensure no-one is about to crash into them as they complete the change of lane.

 

[l'Otters]

I had to be coaxed into overtaking on A roads in my driving lessons, I hated going fast! Didn't ask for it, but my instructor made sure to work some A road practice into most of my lessons. It helped a lot.

Cheers, yes I think so. I hope so anyway! I’ve told my instructor I want to spend at least 30 minutes on dual carriageways / motorways each lesson, as it’s the only way I’ll get relaxed about them. It’s definitely getting easier - a few weeks ago I would be gripped by fear when changing lanes!

 

[T & P]

For learning and new drivers, one comforting advantage of motorways is the much fewer number of junctions. On A roads there are more frequent slip roads incorporating, which those travelling on the left lane having to deal with the potential hazards far more often than on m-ways.

 

[weltweit]

I believe so. Sadly many drivers indicate first, broadcasting their intention to change lanes to those around them and expect others to be accommodating to their wishes, then manoeuvre, then check their mirror to ensure no-one is about to crash into them as they complete the change of lane.

I sometimes broadcast my intention if I am about to be trapped behind an HGV and there are gaps in the middle or fast lanes.

 

[T & P]

I sometimes broadcast my intention if I am about to be trapped behind an HGV and there are gaps in the middle or fast lanes.

Yeah, in such circumstances it’s reasonable in my view, and if I’m on the next lane and it’s safe to do so I’m more than happy to slow down and let them change lanes.

Occasionally you get the complete arsehole who does the opposite- they actually accelerate to ensure you can’t change lanes in front of them even when safe to do so.

 

[hash tag]

One thing scalyboy won't have noticed is the size of vehicles. Most are much bigger and wider now than when I first started driving. When out in the old Micra it felt so much smaller than the majority of cars on the road.

 

[Dogsauce]

One thing I notice a lot of drivers do is that they slow right down when in Lane 3 overtaking a lorry because the size of the vehicle makes the gap feel narrow and people get a bit nervous or there’s some other psychological effect. It’s kind of like the Bernoulli effect in rivers and can cause a bit of congestion as everyone behind slows too. Since I usually have cruise control stuck at 70 when on the motorways (unless busy) I just whizz straight through.

 

[hash tag]

I can't imagine how anyone could use cruise control on motorways as I have never seen one where it's empty enough to do so.
Doing 70 in the far right lane? How many people actually stick to 70 when the road opens up a little?

 

[Dogsauce]

I can't imagine how anyone could use cruise control on motorways as I have never seen one where it's empty enough to do so.
Doing 70 in the far right lane? How many people actually stick to 70 when the road opens up a little?

I do. Cameras everywhere these days so not worth the risk. Only ever on motorways for leisure trips not commuting and can often do nearly the whole trip on cruise, saves a lot of stress. Sometimes do it a bit slower if I’m not in a rush to save fuel.

 

[aqua]

I would also suggest it's a perception thing. Motorways are wide areas, quite often through countryside. A roads are often in built up areas. So whilst the lanes may not vary much in width, the sense of 'more space' on a motorway may also be coming from the environment around you.


*I say often because it's not always obviously. My local motorway junction is spaghetti junction and the m6 near here certainly isn't open and countryside, but the point still stands.