Missing Milly Dowler's voicemail "hacked by News of the World"

[Lord Camomile]

Was that a little Lewinsky nod?

 

[1%er]

Ministerial Code says this:
All special advisers must uphold their responsibility to the Government as a whole, not just their appointing Minister. The responsibility for the management and conduct of special advisers, including discipline, rests with the Minister who made the appointment. Individual Ministers will be accountable to the Prime Minister, Parliament and the public for their actions and decisions in respect of their special advisers. It is, of course, also open to the Prime Minister to terminate employment by withdrawing his consent to an individual appointment.

He really can't pass the buck if the above is correct

 

[agricola]

When I write to my MP about shit things he is doing that is his go to response. "Well labour sort of did a bit of that sort of thing too you know."
Oh right, well if everyone is being naughty then I guess it's alright then. If Labour jumped off a cliff would you follow them?

No, but if they were criticizing one for doing something they spent years doing themselves, one would point it out.

Chris Bryant now having a go at Hunt. Perhaps - in the spirit of examining links between private business and government ministers - its time for the government to release papers relating to the failed Defence Training establishment at St Athan?

 

[Brixton Hatter]

He really can't pass the buck if the above is correct

Yes....but he's trying to.

 

[Balbi]

Hunt's not doing too badly.

 

[ymu]

Dennis Skinner: now that you've lost your SPAD, doesn't it just prove that when posh boys are in trouble, they sack their servants?

 

[agricola]

Ministerial Code says this:
All special advisers must uphold their responsibility to the Government as a whole, not just their appointing Minister. The responsibility for the management and conduct of special advisers, including discipline, rests with the Minister who made the appointment. Individual Ministers will be accountable to the Prime Minister, Parliament and the public for their actions and decisions in respect of their special advisers. It is, of course, also open to the Prime Minister to terminate employment by withdrawing his consent to an individual appointment.

He really can't pass the buck if the above is correct

FWIW that doesnt mean he is responsible for the conduct of the SPAD, just that he is responsible for how SPADs are dealt with.

 

[Teaboy]

Hunt now falling back on the "You lot were as bad" tactic, which is probably better than what he was doing.

You rightly keep pointing out that Labour were worse but I don't think it matters much in political terms. If I was on Labour's front bench now I'd be brass necking it big time as well, Blair and Brown are a lifetime ago in political terms plus Ed Milliband does reasonably dissasociate himself with those regimes.

Its in the here and now that matters to voters and whilst morally you are correct I think politically its a weak defence.

 

[1%er]

FWIW that doesnt mean he is responsible for the conduct of the SPAD, just that he is responsible for how SPADs are dealt with.

I interpret this to read they are responsible, may be I've got that wrong:
Individual Ministers will be accountable* to the Prime Minister, Parliament and the public for their actions and decisions in respect of their special advisers.

*ac·count·a·ble/əˈkountəbəl/
Adjective:

1. (of a person, organization, or institution) Required or expected to justify actions or decisions; responsible.

 

[London_Calling]

I thought that was extraordinary drama; I don't like the man anymore that most on here but I have to admire how he fought - under that pressure, in that cauldron - for his political career.

The BSkyB ref was still a rubber-stamping exercise though.

As per my mantra from yesterday: in the absensce of evidential proof, fuck the hysterics and leave it to Leveson.

 

[agricola]

I interpret this to read they are responsible, may be I've got that wrong:
Individual Ministers will be accountable to the Prime Minister, Parliament and the public for their actions and decisions in respect of their special advisers.

The key bit being:

for their actions and decisions in respect of their special advisers

and not

for the actions and decisions of their special advisers

What Hunt is responsible for is what he does in relation to the SPAD. Where Hunt may be in trouble is if he has directed the SPAD to do any of this.

 

[teqniq]

A crashed SPAD earlier:

 

[1%er]

I think I quoted the wrong bit
The responsibility for the management and conduct of special advisers, including discipline, rests with the Minister who made the appointment.

 

[gabi]

How in god's name is Hunt still in a job? I'm not complaining, his toxicity will pollute the Tory brand still further, but wtf is Cameron doing by not sacking him?

 

[1%er]

How in god's name is Hunt still in a job? I'm not complaining, his toxicity will pollute the Tory brand still further, but wtf is Cameron doing by not sacking him?

I think it is because he is also minister for the Olympics and it would be very embarrassing for the government to lose him so close to the games

 

[laptop]

wtf is Cameron doing by not sacking him?

Waiting. I think.

Check the drawers of Hunt's desk for loaded pistols...

 

[London_Calling]

bit tired of this knee jerk hysteria now.

/backsawayforabit

 

[laptop]

bit tired of this knee jerk hysteria now.

/backsawayforabit

So Cameron's waiting, to attempt to avoid the impression of a jerking knee.

The matter in hand is, however, politics, not judicial process, and hysteria is at its core.

E2A: Westminster party politics, I mean. Of course.

 

[1%er]

bit tired of this knee jerk hysteria now.

/backsawayforabit

But if this is correct Hunt is responsible:
The responsibility for the management and conduct of special advisers, including discipline, rests with the Minister who made the appointment.

I read that as, Hunt is the person with whom the buck stops with regard to his advisers

 

[agricola]

I think I quoted the wrong bit
The responsibility for the management and conduct of special advisers, including discipline, rests with the Minister who made the appointment.

The bit after that is a powerful qualification to that, though.

 

[1%er]

The bit after that is a powerful qualification to that, though.

We seem to be interpreting the codes differently

This is from section 3.3 of the Ministerial Code and section 4 of the Special Advisers code (no qualification in the Special Advisers code), they need to be read separately, I'm looking them up now


Sorry for the edits

 

[Brixton Hatter]

I think Hunt is done-for already....this will rumble on and on (like Liam Fox/Werrity) and eventually the tories will make him step down to avoid further political damage.

 

[agricola]

Hunt refusing to answer questions as to whether he put Smith up as the point of contact between himself and NI, claiming that the departments Permanent Secretary approved of the process, so everything is ok.

So clearly he did then - (edit) and its that which will screw him in the end.

 

[ymu]

Like appointing judges to inquiries, you don't appoint a SPAD who needs to be told what to do, you appoint one that does not need telling.

 

[Lord Camomile]

I really do barely understand any of what's going on But it seems like people I probably don't like might be in trouble for doing bad things, so hurrah for that.

 

[Teaboy]

bit tired of this knee jerk hysteria now.

/backsawayforabit

If only everyone was as brilliant and insightful as you.

Please don't stay away long who's going to tell us we are being stupid or wrong? Who is going to patronise us? Who is going to provide the correct interpretation and lead us into the future?

Stay safe my friend.

 

[Lord Camomile]

blah blah... you did naughty
blah blah... well so did you
blah blah... don't pick on my mate
blah blah... well your mate did naughty
etc
etc
etc

 

[agricola]

Hunt's statement has finished. Started badly, perked up after Harman spoke, then slowly started to sink again once several Labour backbenchers started to question him as to how Smith became the liasion with NI.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Think I'm going to switch back to Rupes.

e2a: oh, they're on a lunch break Ooh, highlights package!

 

[agricola]

Chris Bryant suggesting in a point of order that Rupes has apparently said he met Cameron far more often than Cameron has thus far admitted.