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Presumably it requires a new grate, though, plus the oil tank and feed equipment? That is a going to be pretty big job on standard-gauge engines.
Struwwelpeter
Earthling
I doubt it. Weld up a tank and put it in the coal space in the tender. An electric feed pump and stainless steel armoured flexible fuel pipes to deliver the fuel to a burner mounted just above the grate in the firebox. The main problem could be that the amount of heat radiated from the grate area might be lower, so you would get less steam raised in the firebox and you might be more likely to burn out the fire tubes and superheater, I guess. I just wonder what the experience of the 1940s retrofits was.
This article implies that it failed because of a lack of foreign exchange, rather than any technical or cost issues: GWR oil - fired locomotives
Of course, lack of foreign exchange could become an issue this time, but then it would pay to open up the British pits ...
Struwwelpeter
Earthling
The article that I just quoted suggest that oil burning was cleaner, so local environmental effects would be less. Point taken about the environmental cost of refining, but fuel oil has a fair bit less carbon per BTU than coal*, so it would have to be an inefficient refinery to cancel out the global difference.
* Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
AFAIK you're right and the conversions worked okay, and the issue was paying for the oil. Tbh if that did become a problem again I don't think keeping a few steam engines running would be very high on anyone's priority list! I do still think that the cost of conversions would be beyond a lot of operators, though, especially after Covid has taken a sledgehammer to their incomes, so at the very least conversion to oil would see a substantial drop in the number of operable engines.
Struwwelpeter
Earthling
Agreed. Plus fuel oil just doesn't have the same smell as Welsh anthracite...
Absolutely. Hand firing is an art, too, which it'd be a pity to see die off.
davesgcr
Reading books
Gentlemen - as a son of an anthracite colliery shift manager , - and a bit of a coal obsessive - you do not burn anthracite in a railway locomotive. Slow burning and very high carbon , ideal for central heating , malting , food production where high carbon and low arsenic is / was critical. You need something like best dry steam coal (non coking) - the stuff that used to be dug up in the Rhondda and Aberdare Valleys. At a push - Garw cobbles from the Maesteg area.
This 1940's "experiment" was a real dogs breakfast - random almost spread of depots to burn oil , often in coalfields - not at the extremities of geography away from coal producing areas. So you might have a couple of Swansea based loco's burning imported oil , to move coal trains (locally produced decent coal destined for the docks , for export !) - as good a plan as the Ground Nuts scheme ,or the even worse plan to rear chickens in Africa. Central planning does not always work.
The expensive 1940's plan was quickly reversed - I suspect to the great relief of those who tried to make it work. It grieves me to say it - but more diesels and electrification was really the answer. Plenty of writing on this matter.
Yes - I have fired a Polish loco with Polish coal , at a horrible hour of the day. It nearly killed me for graft and dirt - and forget all the "measured , little and often" means of firing as all the books tell you. I was told to chuck in massive lumps and soaking wet slack - which blacked out the sky. I looked worse than a miner on stepping down.
I'm sure you can guess how envious I am of that! I've been reading and watching a bit on world railways of late, not least the old Ian Allan series on world steam from the 90s, which is all on dailymotion, and one thing that's struck me is how much cleaner British steam railways were than some in other parts of the world, at least in part because of the quality of British coal. Obviously steam engines are inherently dirty things, but the vast clouds of black smoke you see in - for example - Colin Garratt's photographs of African steam weren't a thing here.
davesgcr
Reading books
From the age of 14 I used to drive and fire NCB Austerity locomotives (father had good connections) - basic work -no niceties on cut off , full regulator and full forward gear . In the 1980's as "Train Manager" on the Salisbury steam runs I got short exposures on the main line - firing in good weather and with good engines *Clan Line and the 8F one afternoon) - the 8F was a doddle , but the Merchant Navy had an insatiable appetite. The Salisbury crews were great , but one jokingly said he would not have taken me off the shed in say 1960. Most of the coal was on the cab floor , not in the box. All good clean lump coal though to be fair.
Polish main line was brutal , - Polish narrow gauge was a dream.
davesgcr
Reading books
Rub it in, why don't you!
I missed the chance to fire the Hall class on the Ludgershall steam trial runs , (4 in the cab legitimately + Traction Inspector) but I had the glory of coupling her up and shunting the stock....which included 2 loaded MOD flat wagons which needed moving off a special .. I regret I had no camera that day. "Proper engine" .......
davesgcr
Reading books
A few of them around,. Impressive pieces of plant - they sort of riddle the ballast and top it up with nice clean stone. Saves an awful lot of manual labour.
davesgcr
Reading books
Depends really - engineers love the "Yellow Kit" - other people of railway interest less so. As an Operations Manager I always regarded them as a neccessary evil and my only interest really was in getting the railway back operational on time - something they generally did to be fair
In their hierarchy a Kirov crane comes very high up (3 in the UK I think) - a Railgrinder (Impressive when working as it showers sparks all over the place -and starts the odd trackside fire) and these odd tilted wagons (bought at vast expense from Switzerland) that can carry a whole set of points in one go and theoretically can reduce a line block of 54 hours to 16.
I am sure in special soclal gatherings , they wax enthusiastically on all these things , and the iniquity of not being able to buy all the yellow plants that they should. To be fair they went through hard times in the bleak Railtrack days when their profession was not appreciated and funded.
A quick anecdote , as you would expect - the very first Stoneblower in the UK was tried out on "my" DC lines from Wembley to Willesden one night about 1998 - we were promised the earth (or a great railway) - and there were hopes that it would recondition about a mile of track in about 6 hours - so off it went - but the ballast was in such a shocking state - about 30 years of fag ends , tin cans and mud - that it exhausted itself and it's clean ballast in about 300 yards and retired very tired to the depot. It took a complete closure of a week and about 6 ballast trains to put it back in good condition. That's deferred maintenance for you -partly BR -we later discovered that the last time that bit of line had received serious attention was before the Royal Wedding of HMQ .
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
My local(ish) station still has a siding and occasionally this provides refuge for the odd ballast regulator ...
TiG - P&T Tamper par StoneRoad2013, on ipernity
TiG - P&T Tamper par StoneRoad2013, on ipernity
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
The previous month, we had this passing through ...
TiG - PW train par StoneRoad2013, on ipernity
This is the "high output" formation ... there's about half a mile of it, and the "shed" at the back had to put out some effort to shove it into motion again, even with similar from the one on the front.
TiG - PW train par StoneRoad2013, on ipernity
This is the "high output" formation ... there's about half a mile of it, and the "shed" at the back had to put out some effort to shove it into motion again, even with similar from the one on the front.
editor
hiraethified
Look at this beauty! Starting bid at £50,000.
paulfosh.eigonlineauctions.com
Former Signal Box, Newton Road, Torquay, TQ2 5EU - Online Auctions
Property for sale online in Torquay closing on 04/02/2021 with a Guide Price of £54,000+. - Online Auctions
paulfosh.eigonlineauctions.com
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Look at this beauty! Starting bid at £50,000.
View attachment 249855
View attachment 249856
Former Signal Box, Newton Road, Torquay, TQ2 5EU - Online Auctions
Property for sale online in Torquay closing on 04/02/2021 with a Guide Price of £54,000+. - Online Auctions
be a difficult conversion that, to put bathroom, bedroom, kitchen etc on the first two floors and then have the top floor dedicated to the lever frame, stove and armchair
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
hash tag
Books, not bombs
DON'T do this!
I have seen other similar stories like this recently. Crazy.
I have seen other similar stories like this recently. Crazy.
Tidemills level crossing: Woman lies on tracks for photo
The woman could have "been moments away from a catastrophic incident", police say.
www.bbc.co.uk
editor
hiraethified
We have a dedicated thread for this kind of tomfoolery:DON'T do this!
I have seen other similar stories like this recently. Crazy.
Tidemills level crossing: Woman lies on tracks for photo
The woman could have "been moments away from a catastrophic incident", police say.www.bbc.co.uk
The Return of Level Crossing News (a tribute)
This is more about the closure of the signal boxes on the Ely to Norwich line, but it does feature a few manual crossings and is quite an interesting watch :thumbs: That is fantastic. Snow + semaphores + signalboxes!
www.urban75.net
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
A different world - imagine being told your job today would be to take your steam engine and stalk a Class 20 (not that they were called that then) from Llandudno to Ffestiniog, in case any wagons or engineer's inspection saloons tried to run off.
Though "there are seventeen points on the route at which screwing over has to take place" suggests North Wales hasn't completely changed these past sixty years.
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
editor
That's fascinating ... sure I've seen it before, but well worth another watch.
The train orders must have been interesting, I presume they did it under an engineer's possession.
I'm reminded of two, quite different, things.
Being on the CdF Vivarais and looking back to see the following train catching up as our Mallett was having to fight for steam [the briquettes were not as good as they normally were, apparently and our train had extra carriages as well]
The organised chaos that must have been the Longmoor Military Railway when they filmed the St Trinian's Great Train Robbery - I gather it was under the control of the now late Major Poyntz (subsequently of "HMRI", my dear boy !)
That's fascinating ... sure I've seen it before, but well worth another watch.
The train orders must have been interesting, I presume they did it under an engineer's possession.
I'm reminded of two, quite different, things.
Being on the CdF Vivarais and looking back to see the following train catching up as our Mallett was having to fight for steam [the briquettes were not as good as they normally were, apparently and our train had extra carriages as well]
The organised chaos that must have been the Longmoor Military Railway when they filmed the St Trinian's Great Train Robbery - I gather it was under the control of the now late Major Poyntz (subsequently of "HMRI", my dear boy !)
