Britain needed Thatcher like u75 needs rightisgood.
miners strike 84/85
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duncanh64
Things can only get bitter...
warnig to jjjj
He deserves to be.
NUM were never the largest union.
Can't pretend to speak for the miners, just my own opinion, but as far as I remember, no one was specifically out to 'bring the government down'. The Tory Govt of the time had made it clear that they we going to destroy the industry, their jobs and much of the rest of the local economy that depended on it. The miners were desperately fighting for their jobs and their communities. Thatcher had been re-elected in '83 and the Tories won a few seats in mining areas like Sherwood Notts, Amber Valley Derbys. Did they say in their manifesto what they planned to do to the industry?
Even now there's precious little of JJJJ's 'economic benefits' where I live. The pits are gone, the other main industries - textiles, engineering etc are on their last legs; unemployment and low pay are big problems. Working down the pit wasn't exactly fun, but it could at least earn you a half-decent wage [not all miners were on mega-wages though - that's another Tory myth]; the 'Mcjobs' that have come in now are a poor replacement.
Thatcher stood for narrow-mindedness, selfishness, division, making the rich richer at the expense of the poor. Her government sold off everything they could get their hands on to their rich friends and tried to pass it off as 'popular capitalism'. They used mass unemployment to drive down wages and smash the unions, which whatever you say are [or should be] there to get working people a bit of a better deal in the workplace, not the ogres they are made out to be.
New Labour have continued much of Thatcher's policies and outlook, and I can't stand Blair, but every time I hear Thatcher's voice on the TV/radio, I still feel the anger rising
.
Edited for spelling errors. And while I'm having a go at Thatcher, I should have mentioned the abomination that was the Poll Tax .
He deserves to be.
NUM were never the largest union.
Can't pretend to speak for the miners, just my own opinion, but as far as I remember, no one was specifically out to 'bring the government down'. The Tory Govt of the time had made it clear that they we going to destroy the industry, their jobs and much of the rest of the local economy that depended on it. The miners were desperately fighting for their jobs and their communities. Thatcher had been re-elected in '83 and the Tories won a few seats in mining areas like Sherwood Notts, Amber Valley Derbys. Did they say in their manifesto what they planned to do to the industry?
Even now there's precious little of JJJJ's 'economic benefits' where I live. The pits are gone, the other main industries - textiles, engineering etc are on their last legs; unemployment and low pay are big problems. Working down the pit wasn't exactly fun, but it could at least earn you a half-decent wage [not all miners were on mega-wages though - that's another Tory myth]; the 'Mcjobs' that have come in now are a poor replacement.
Thatcher stood for narrow-mindedness, selfishness, division, making the rich richer at the expense of the poor. Her government sold off everything they could get their hands on to their rich friends and tried to pass it off as 'popular capitalism'. They used mass unemployment to drive down wages and smash the unions, which whatever you say are [or should be] there to get working people a bit of a better deal in the workplace, not the ogres they are made out to be.
New Labour have continued much of Thatcher's policies and outlook, and I can't stand Blair, but every time I hear Thatcher's voice on the TV/radio, I still feel the anger rising
.Edited for spelling errors. And while I'm having a go at Thatcher, I should have mentioned the abomination that was the Poll Tax .
It must be nearly ten years since Margaret Thatcher was PM, yet what passion she arouses..........quelle femme !
Edited to add: Having lit blue touchpaper he retires
Edited to add: Having lit blue touchpaper he retires
Originally posted by rorymac
The only consolation Gremlin is that history is not doing Thatcher any favours.
And she doesn't half deserve that...
Must be killing her inside...
Long may she live and suffer.
I doubt it, I think that Thatcher truly believed that her course was right.
Maidmarian
Stubborn Socialist
Rory -- Vimto ---Duncan !!!!!
RESPECT !
RESPECT !
Maidmarian
Stubborn Socialist
Oh Dear !!!! Rumble !
Really there was a lot wrong with the community charge --- !!! Surely even you know that !!!
I`ve NO probs paying taxes ---BUT I do think a local income-tax would be a fairer way to pay for local services.
Really there was a lot wrong with the community charge --- !!! Surely even you know that !!!
I`ve NO probs paying taxes ---BUT I do think a local income-tax would be a fairer way to pay for local services.
Originally posted by rumble
I'm wondering what was so very wrong with the the Community Charge (often impertinently labelled the Poll Tax). Was it wrong to expect everyone to pay for Council Services?
The problem with the poll tax was that everyone paid the same, regardless of income. Therefore someone on a low wage was paying a disproportionate amount of their income in comparison to a high earner. Do you think that is fair?
I'll admit I was a bit Blimpish last night. At time of Poll tax, I didn't see why it was a protest issue On paper, everyone would be paying for local services. There were lots of anomolies over the then Rating system PT was a failure as it became uncollectable . I don't think it, as an issue brought thatcher down. Divisions within Tory party over Europe may have done that
Maidmarian
Stubborn Socialist
Rumble ---- see my previous post ------
The rating system wasn`t fair --- it`s true ----
But the poll tax really hit the disadvantaged .
I don`t agree that EU stuff brought the Tories down -------
I think it was EVERYTHING !!
The rating system wasn`t fair --- it`s true ----
But the poll tax really hit the disadvantaged .
I don`t agree that EU stuff brought the Tories down -------
I think it was EVERYTHING !!
duncanh64
Things can only get bitter...
As she resigned on 22 November 1990, it's more than 10 years; in fact it's 11 years and 193 days
. Still have a copy of the Evening Standard for that day with the banner headline: 'Thatcher Resigns'. I take it out and look at it sometimes, when I need cheering up.BTW, does anyone remember the name of the pub halfway up Whitehall, on the left if you're approaching Parliament from Traf Square? I and some mates went in there on that night to celebrate the beast's demise and the landlord called the law and had us all chucked out.
ps thanks marian
.
Excellent thread.
The miners strike was a horrible period of time. I finally got round to joining the Labour party and our ward did some collecting in support of the miners.
Surprisingly it was the Nottingham miners we supported - I had thought that Nottingham miners were not on strike but had created a new boss-friendly union. These ones were most definitely on strike. We collected food mostly and money of course.
Scargill was right, he said it was a plan to close down the industry and that was the end result. Yes the 'Ridley Plan' was hatched even before Thatcher was in power. It was partly revenge for the previous miner's strikes and the three day week of Ted Heath's time. Thatcher understood about class war. Ted Heath not a popular Tory PM by any means was well to the left of the present Tony Blair, however and even instituted inflation linked (ish) wage increases as a partial relaxation of wage controls.
The Poll Tax was the next big thing. I was on that major demo. I never saw so many coaches on the M1 going to it. Never was in a bigger demo in my life. Afterwards I left early by tube from Charing Cross to get back to an important annual dinner and presentation for a long standing work colleague who was leaving. I left Trafagar Square at about 10 to 6 pm. Guess who did not see any violence until I turned on the TV an hour later?
They were bad years. We will never forget them. I am no longer a member of the Labour party which did not come out in support of the miners as a party and did not oppose the Poll Tax. It had already gone rotten before Blair was levered into power by Mandelson et al. Now it is beyond redemption.
Hocus Eye - sadder and perhaps wiser
The miners strike was a horrible period of time. I finally got round to joining the Labour party and our ward did some collecting in support of the miners.
Surprisingly it was the Nottingham miners we supported - I had thought that Nottingham miners were not on strike but had created a new boss-friendly union. These ones were most definitely on strike. We collected food mostly and money of course.
Scargill was right, he said it was a plan to close down the industry and that was the end result. Yes the 'Ridley Plan' was hatched even before Thatcher was in power. It was partly revenge for the previous miner's strikes and the three day week of Ted Heath's time. Thatcher understood about class war. Ted Heath not a popular Tory PM by any means was well to the left of the present Tony Blair, however and even instituted inflation linked (ish) wage increases as a partial relaxation of wage controls.
The Poll Tax was the next big thing. I was on that major demo. I never saw so many coaches on the M1 going to it. Never was in a bigger demo in my life. Afterwards I left early by tube from Charing Cross to get back to an important annual dinner and presentation for a long standing work colleague who was leaving. I left Trafagar Square at about 10 to 6 pm. Guess who did not see any violence until I turned on the TV an hour later?
They were bad years. We will never forget them. I am no longer a member of the Labour party which did not come out in support of the miners as a party and did not oppose the Poll Tax. It had already gone rotten before Blair was levered into power by Mandelson et al. Now it is beyond redemption.
Hocus Eye - sadder and perhaps wiser
Maidmarian
Stubborn Socialist
You are right about the Notts miners Hocus --
The UDM was (An allbeit large) splinter group which broke away from the NUM.
A mate of mine (Who sadly died recently )led the remaining NUM members here ---A VERY courageous thing to do---- The Notts NUM members held out `till the bitter end too-----
Arthur Scargill came to the funeral --- he looks a broken man !
The UDM was (An allbeit large) splinter group which broke away from the NUM.
A mate of mine (Who sadly died recently )led the remaining NUM members here ---A VERY courageous thing to do---- The Notts NUM members held out `till the bitter end too-----
Arthur Scargill came to the funeral --- he looks a broken man !
such an absorbing thread I've just burnt my dinner
thatcher did have a plan and it was to smash the unions one by one and she always knew smashing the miners would be decisive. that's why she was prepared to pay millions to do so. freedom? does anyone remember the roadblocks? you couldn't take a coach up the motorway to show support to striking miners, so much for freedom of expression.
many police were sickened by what they were asked to do and generally the worst were those who came from furthest away, often London. but ordinary londoners (workers and middle class) gave huge support. there were collections for the miners outside supermarkets in brixton. where i worked (a women's hostel) we had a monthly levy straight from our wages to the strike support fund. I can't imagine it happening now. we've lost that sense of solidarity. I hope we can get it back.
like many others, i get too emotional thinking about it. thatcher
(along with reagan and pinochet! ) pioneered what we now see as globalisation: smash the unions, drive down the cost of labour, break up manufacturing industry (a bastion of union power), punish solidarity, privatise everything, destroy even the idea of social responsibility...
it's too dismal.
my daughter was born at the end of the strike. it's weird to think there's a whole generation passed. i hope hers will have something as powerful to remember and that we win this time!
thatcher did have a plan and it was to smash the unions one by one and she always knew smashing the miners would be decisive. that's why she was prepared to pay millions to do so. freedom? does anyone remember the roadblocks? you couldn't take a coach up the motorway to show support to striking miners, so much for freedom of expression.
many police were sickened by what they were asked to do and generally the worst were those who came from furthest away, often London. but ordinary londoners (workers and middle class) gave huge support. there were collections for the miners outside supermarkets in brixton. where i worked (a women's hostel) we had a monthly levy straight from our wages to the strike support fund. I can't imagine it happening now. we've lost that sense of solidarity. I hope we can get it back.
like many others, i get too emotional thinking about it. thatcher
(along with reagan and pinochet! ) pioneered what we now see as globalisation: smash the unions, drive down the cost of labour, break up manufacturing industry (a bastion of union power), punish solidarity, privatise everything, destroy even the idea of social responsibility...it's too dismal.
my daughter was born at the end of the strike. it's weird to think there's a whole generation passed. i hope hers will have something as powerful to remember and that we win this time!
anarchistnurse
New Member
The Church of England comes to our defence! I know anarchists have a bit of a reputation for burning churches. But if any one should venture into Durham Cathederal they will find a book listing all the workers killed in the Durham Light Infantry in the defence of capatalism and empire and also another book. This lists all the miners killed in Durham. Near to it is a notice explaining the effect of the destruction of the mining industry on local communities. The interesting thing is that the Church of England describe the closing down of the coal mines as a " decision by the government ". If the state religion is honest enough to point the finger of blame, surely the rightwing apologists have to put their hands up and admit that it had nothing to do with economic viability, profits or different power sources but a decision to take on a section of the working class seen as the most organized and powerful and destroy them. Hopefully Thatcher will have another stroke soon. Not too crippling, but enough to take away her dignity and respect and ability to work. Thousands of ex miners will feel empathy but probably not much sympathy.
Cautious Fred
commie troublemaker
That's right. Further up the thread Kaka Tim said:
The strikes on Wednesday (17th) may not constitute a general strike, but will be the biggest this country has seen for a long time.
Not only will councils be closed by Unison and GMB workers etc, but many schools will be closed because local NUT branches are refusing to cross picket lines (Unison/GMB workers also work in schools). On top of that, in London, Tube workers will be striking on the 17th and the 18th.
I think you've just got to look over at Italy and Spain, both of which have had massive general strikes in the past couple of months, and it's even happening in Britain.
The strikes on Wednesday (17th) may not constitute a general strike, but will be the biggest this country has seen for a long time.
Not only will councils be closed by Unison and GMB workers etc, but many schools will be closed because local NUT branches are refusing to cross picket lines (Unison/GMB workers also work in schools). On top of that, in London, Tube workers will be striking on the 17th and the 18th.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Yes anarchist nurse Durham cathedral is awesome, i suggest everybody takes a trip there and you could combine it with a good day out at the Durham miners gala that's on every year... Not as huge as it was in the 60-s when 250,000 people went but still very influential...
Alfonzo Bonzo
and his magic watch
Zapher, your argument is so idiotic I assume you have devolved to the level of troll. If you don't like the price of a product, you can buy a cheaper, lower quality one which will do the same job. Tesco Value instead of Kingsmill. Market stall instead of designer label. To my knowledge there was only one brand of poll tax.
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