Many dead in coordinated Paris shootings and explosions

[Athos]

That is my feeling. How many AK47s are available to terrorists in the UK?

Including northern Ireland?

 

[Favelado]

That is my feeling. How many AK47s are available to terrorists in the UK?

I guess it doesn't matter though. If it can't be AK-47's, then it will be something else. Whatever the least point of resistance is locally becomes the focus of the attack.

 

[Spymaster]

How many AK47s are available to terrorists in the UK?

23.

 

[Spymaster]

.

 

[cesare]

23.

 

[Pickman's model]

That's true. We will soon know more about who was directly responsible for what happened. As someone said a while back though that is a separate question from why it happened, which is more what I'd call 'the full implications'.

by no means. the full implications the second and third order effects of this, not who did it. the full implications of assassination of franz ferdinand not gavrilo princip, the black hand or their motives.

 

[weltweit]

Um. They have blown themselves to pieces. Not sure the individual's names are going to help much with the 'full implications' anyway.

The individual names will permit them to be tracked and might lead to the providers of the weapons and bombs used in the attack, and it could explain how they either were brought up and radicalised in France or came from outside. I expect the authorities will be going to some lengths to identify the perpetrators.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Of course, it's a bit harder to get stuff into an island, but far from imposssible. If they're in France, what's to stop them being hidden in the back of a van/lorry coming on the ferry (not all of which are thoroughly searched)? In any event, there's loads of illegal weapons knocking about in the UK, and it wouldn't be that hard to source the necessary components for a bomb/gas attack. And a fair few 'homegrown jihadis.' It's a matter of when and where, not if, I'm afraid.

The IRA had no problem in getting weapons and explosives into mainland Britain.

 

[bimble]

by no means. the full implications the second and third order effects of this, not who did it. the full implications of assassination of franz ferdinand not gavrilo princip, the black hand or their motives.

But exactly, just applying same thing to cause as you are with effect? Happy for you to frame this as a disagreement though if you prefer.

 

[Pickman's model]

The individual names will permit them to be tracked and might lead to the providers of the weapons and bombs used in the attack, and it could explain how they either were brought up and radicalised in France or came from outside. I expect the authorities will be going to some lengths to identify the perpetrators.

the back story interesting and that but has little bearing on the meanings people will be already ascribing to the act or the actions that will result.

 

[Pickman's model]

But exactly, just applying same thing to cause as you are with effect? Happy for you to frame this as a disagreement though if you prefer.

not here to make you happy.

 

[J Ed]

one questioned that they could have come from Germany disguised as football supporters, either way could have implications for Schengen's open borders

The reason he said that is because he is a contemptible moron who, like the Independent journo mentioned above, sees tragedies and attacks on ordinary people as opportunities to push his own agenda.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What? Are you suggesting the DGSE might have done this?

I thought it was fairly obvious from my point that "DGSE is a possibility, but not probable". They have a history of using agents provocateurs to start trouble, up to and including deaths, so while I don't believe they're involved, it's a possibility that shouldn't be entirely discounted.

 

[weltweit]

the back story interesting and that but has little bearing on the meanings people will be already ascribing to the act or the actions that will result.

They would be wise to wait until the facts are in.

 

[Pickman's model]

The IRA had no problem in getting weapons and explosives into mainland Britain.

that's not entirely true, is it.

 

[bimble]

not here to make you happy.

I'm not here to bicker.

 

[Pickman's model]

They would be wise to wait until the facts are in.

yes. but i don't think those wise words will be widely respected.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm not here to bicker.

and i'm pleased to hear it but i am as i say refusing to bicker with you.

 

[J Ed]

More right-wing fanatics who see today not as a tragedy but as an opportunity, Douglas Murray (of the fanatically neoconservative Henry Jackson Society) in the Torygraph

Paris terror attacks: Europe must confront failed integration In the wake of the Paris atrocities there will be empty calls for solidarity. But Europe has to be more honest about the dangers of mass migration

 

[Pickman's model]

More right-wing fanatics who see today not as a tragedy but as an opportunity, Douglas Murray (of the fanatically neoconservative Henry Jackson Society) in the Torygraph

Paris terror attacks: Europe must confront failed integration In the wake of the Paris atrocities there will be empty calls for solidarity. But Europe has to be more honest about the dangers of mass migration

and so it begins

 

[eatmorecheese]

More right-wing fanatics who see today not as a tragedy but as an opportunity, Douglas Murray (of the fanatically neoconservative Henry Jackson Society) in the Torygraph

Paris terror attacks: Europe must confront failed integration In the wake of the Paris atrocities there will be empty calls for solidarity. But Europe has to be more honest about the dangers of mass migration

All the predictable bigots pour out of the woodwork

 

[LDC]

More right-wing fanatics who see today not as a tragedy but as an opportunity, Douglas Murray (of the fanatically neoconservative Henry Jackson Society) in the Torygraph

Paris terror attacks: Europe must confront failed integration In the wake of the Paris atrocities there will be empty calls for solidarity. But Europe has to be more honest about the dangers of mass migration

Yup. But we (the broader 'left' we) are somehow going to need to properly tackle and sort out things like this, something we've spectacularly failed to do very well in the recent past leaving political space open to the EDL etc..

 

[ViolentPanda]

A few more of these and it will be the end of democracy in Europe. I don't say that with any relish, or belief that some kind of shadowy group or intelligence service is doing it - I don't. Just look at Israel... five years ago you could hold leftist anti-war demonstrations there now you can't because they are attacked while the police do not intervene, that's our future unless something changes.

It's entirely possible that this will be jumped on by legislators across Europe to promote divisive agendas. The Home Secretary likely already has senior CSs and her ministers brainstorming as to how to use this to effect their "snooper's charter" agenda, and re-introduce stronger control orders.
Of course, such behaviour by individual members plays directly into the hands of any terrorist organisation Europe has experience of, let alone ISIS or other Islamist fundamentalist brews, but legislators tend to be into short-termist political posturing, rather than analysis that enables them to do long-term social good.

 

[Favelado]

More right-wing fanatics who see today not as a tragedy but as an opportunity, Douglas Murray (of the fanatically neoconservative Henry Jackson Society) in the Torygraph

Paris terror attacks: Europe must confront failed integration In the wake of the Paris atrocities there will be empty calls for solidarity. But Europe has to be more honest about the dangers of mass migration

What's their alternative to mass migration to head off demographic disaster? Pay Europeans to shag themselves senseless?

 

[editor]

and so it begins

I made the mistake of reading some of the reader comments.

 

[J Ed]

What's their alternative to mass migration to head off demographic disaster? Pay Europeans to shag themselves senseless?

Close the borders to Muslims, harass Muslims, harassment for anyone who dissents from the narrow status quo of neoliberalism and increased surveillance for everyone forever

 

[bimble]

The Home Secretary likely already has senior CSs and her ministers brainstorming as to how to use this to effect their "snooper's charter" agenda, and re-introduce stronger control orders.

oh yes.
From her counter-terrorism speech last year: "We always said we would keep our terrorism laws and capabilities under review, so we are able to respond to events, new emerging threats and different methods used by our enemies. "

 

[Favelado]

I made the mistake of reading some of the reader comments.

That made me read them. Ludicrous posts on there.

 

[Favelado]

Close the borders to Muslims, harass Muslims, harassment for anyone who dissents from the narrow status quo of neoliberalism and increased surveillance for everyone forever

As the population ages and the tax-base collapses due to low birth-rates.

 

[J Ed]

Telegraph comments are indistinguishable from Scumfront