makeup of the Brixton forum

[tom796]

1. This poll is intended to clarify the makeup of the Brixton forum on U75 and is a response to the recent debate about gentrification.
2. This poll is for residents of the Brixton area only. Please respect that.
3. I have avoided using class terminology, because (as I have said elsewhere) class is often a self-constructed identification. As it is easier to categorise, I have used income instead.
4. This poll is private. Public polls on issues like this are largely self-defeating.
5. BME = Black & Minority Ethnic, inc. mixed race.
6. White = White European.
7. Please be honest when voting. You're welcome to explain more about your circumstances if you like, but there's no compulsion.

 

[Pickman's model]

2. This poll is for residents of the Brixton area only. Please respect that.

obviously people who work in brixton don't count.

 

[tom796]

Sorry Pickman's. The poll is a response to the gentrification debate, which has as its focus the housing problems in Brixton. I know this poll is full of imperfections, and for those I apologise.

 

[Anna Key]

I know this poll is full of imperfections, and for those I apologise.

I think it's a good poll. Almost as good as mine.

 

[tom796]

aah, but yours was public

 

[Stobart Stopper]

I have voted for 'other' just to read the results of the poll.

 

[lang rabbie]

I have voted for 'other' just to read the results of the poll.

"View Poll Results" - bottom right of the poll box!!!

 

[Stobart Stopper]

"View Poll Results" - bottom right of the poll box!!!

I am such a dumb twat sometimes....er I mean, most of the time!

 

[sleaterkinney]

at this thread. You can't classify people like that.

 

[tom796]

if you take a peek over at the gentrification thread, you'll see that that's all everyone ever does! anyway, care to expand on your comment? how would you classify people?

 

[Gramsci]

3. I have avoided using class terminology, because (as I have said elsewhere) class is often a self-constructed identification. As it is easier to categorise, I have used income instead.

Its not self constructed.Its a product of historical forces.

 

[tom796]

the mere fact that we disagree on how to define class surely proves my point, or at the very least proves that it wouldn't be efficient to use it on this poll...?


but let's not get into an off-topic debate about how to define class.

 

[tom796]

well, interesting, but perhaps not surprising, results so far (after 22 votes). the poll back up the general consensus that very few black and ethnic minority people post in the brixton forum. most posters are, however, long-term residents, which is promising for anti-gentrifiers. significantly, only one newer resident is earning less than 20 grand a year.

 

[editor]

well, interesting, but perhaps not surprising, results so far (after 22 votes). the poll back up the general consensus that very few black and ethnic minority people post in the brixton forum..

I think that should read "very few black and ethnic minority people post in the brixton forum who can be arsed and are willing to divulge their ethnic background and earnings for the benefit of a stranger's poll in a public forum".

 

[Mrs Magpie]

This reminds me a bit of earnest discussions of disability (or differently-abled as they liked to call it) when lots of nice, well-meaning able-bodied people in the caring professions would discuss 'empowering' people with disabilities at training days while we all fucked off down the pub having fun and talking about less earnest stuff....

<edited to add>
not singling out this thread, just commenting on the present forum vibe....

 

[tom796]

I think that should read "very few black and ethnic minority people post in the brixton forum who can be arsed and are willing to divulge their ethnic background and earnings for the benefit of a stranger's poll in a public forum".

of course, tis true. that's the case for all polls, but then it's the best i could do!

edited to add: it is a private poll though, so i don't think many people would be put off voting... at a guess

 

[TeeJay]

Before this forum starts beating itself up, how about comparing and contrasting these two (and does looking at people tell you anything about them anyway?):

Lambeth councillors:

Lambeth 2001 census "ethnic group" figures: http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/intradoc/groups/public/documents/report/022238.pdf

white british 49.6%
black caribbean 12.1%
black african 11.6%
white other 9.6%
white irish 3.3%
black other 2.1%
white + caribbean 2.0%
indian 2.0%
chinese 1.3%
other 1.2%
other mixed 1.2%
pakistani 1.0%
bangladeshi 0.8%
other asian 0.8%
white + african 0.8%
white + asian 0.8%

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

So are Asians, South-East Asians, South Americans etc. in the No. 1 category, ie. BME + Mixed Race?

 

[academia]

"very few black and ethnic minority people post in the brixton forum who can be arsed and are willing to divulge their ethnic background and earnings for the benefit of a stranger's poll in a public forum".

So BME people are more likely to avoid timewasting polls than white people?

 

[editor]

So BME people are more likely to avoid timewasting polls than white people?

I've no idea. Have you?

 

[Rollem]

2. This poll is for residents of the Brixton area only. Please respect that.

then maybe you should have called it "makeup of brixton" instead of brixton forum...

 

[lang rabbie]

TeeJay

Sadly, Lambeth Council's ethnic mix is not wholly down to the party selection process.

I can speak as a white male who has stood down as a council candidate to allow a very competent black woman with wide community experience to stand. Unfortunately come election night, the ballot boxes for the areas with the largest white pensioner vote split on a clearly racist basis (from both the Lib Dem and Labour tickets - who both had one black candidate).

Less predictably, colleagues were also convinced that in several wards the supposedly "trendy lefty" streets, where many people cast one vote for the Green candidate, dropped the black candidate from whichever party they were supporting with their other two votes. That was truly depressing.

[Gets out liberal guilt horsewhip]

 

[Mr BC]

TeeJay

Sadly, Lambeth Council's ethnic mix is not wholly down to the party selection process.

I don't think it's anything to do with party selection processes. The sad fact is that all 3 parties have huge difficulties in recruiting black candidates. All 3 parties are acutely conscious of how unrepresentative of the communities they serve they are.

 

[tom796]

overnight the tides have turned! the largest percentage of respondents is now white people earning over 20k who have been here less than ten years... gentrifiers!

 

[Brixton Hatter]

overnight the tides have turned! the largest percentage of respondents is now white people earning over 20k who have been here less than ten years... gentrifiers!

Well done for attempting this tom796 - it's not a perfect poll, but it is interesting.

There seems to be an implication that people who earn over £20k are yuppies. There also seems to be an implication that unless you have lived here the 10 years required to be a considered a "real" resident, you are newly-arrived yuppie. But I think the arguments here in the Brixton Forum are not really about how much people earn and how long they have lived here, but about how much they put into the local community, how much they are contributing to gentrification, whether you are living a sustainable lifestyle, whether you "give anything back" to Brixton, as well as "taking" from it.

Personally, I would have no problem with a newly arrived exec in Brixton who earns £50k [although why anyone needs that kind of cash is beyond me] but uses the local shops and businesses, sends their kids to the local schools, recycles their rubbish, campaigns and supports local issues etc. It's about actively contributing to your community - not benignly destroying it through indifference.

 

[tom796]

good points, hatter. i get the impression that the 'new brixton' is basically an entertainment centre for young white professionals (local residents and others): bars, clubs, trendy restaurants and so on. and there's nothing bad about that per se. a given area may have multiple functions, and those functions may change over time. i don't know, all this gentrification talk has got me all confused.

 

[Ol Nick]

Personally, I would have no problem with a newly arrived exec in Brixton who earns £50k [although why anyone needs that kind of cash is beyond me]

In short, to buy a house in Brixton nowadays.

 

[IntoStella]

overnight the tides have turned! the largest percentage of respondents is now white people earning over 20k who have been here less than ten years... gentrifiers!

What a ludicrously biased poll. The idea that a person earning 20k a year is a yuppie is completely risible. A person on such a salary has not a hope in hell of entering the private property market, for a start. They could barely afford to rent privately and if they did, they would probably be paying hugely over the odds for one room in a shared house. And your post above just goes to prove that your intention from the outset was merely to falsely accuse other posters of being yuppie gentrifiers.

 

[pooka]

Oh - I thought those two , meant tom796 was being ''fun, humorous and lighthearted' ?

Will I ever get the hang of this? It's as well you're back, i2s, or I'd be barking up the wrong tree altogether

 

[IntoStella]

Oh - I thought those two , meant tom796 was being ''fun, humorous and lighthearted' ?

Will I ever get the hang of this? It's as well you're back, i2s, or I'd be barking up the wrong tree altogether

I take your point, Mr Cheeky (all this humourlessness is contagious -- like measles), and I guess I over-reacted (MOI??) but the fact remains that someone on 20 grand a year couldn't gentrify their way out of a paper bag, so the whole premise of the survey is hopelessly skewed.

35k a year maybe, but even then they'd probably be struggling to buy a garden shed in Brixton. Or a beer in BBG.