leanderman
Street Party: July 2
If true, yes. Doesn't seem to happen over here though.
Loughborough Junction public space improvements - consultation begins
- Thread starter Leo Chesterton
- Start date
If true, yes. Doesn't seem to happen over here though.
fredfelt
Mostly unknown member
I don't know about this development, but on a broader level it's a huge shame that in the UK we can't get it together to make safe cycle routes to schools. It's no wonder gangs can get a foothold when people don't feel safe walking and cycling in their neighbourhood. Streets dominated by cars do nothing to make our streets feel welcome.
I lived in Amsterdam where most kids cycle to school. It can only be helpful for both kids and parents if they have the opportunity to get to school under their own steam and inclination, rather than being dependant on a parent and oil.
I'm sure you can't compare this neighbourhood to the one in this thread, but I found this video illustrating how different our streets could be if we started to design them for people.
I lived in Amsterdam where most kids cycle to school. It can only be helpful for both kids and parents if they have the opportunity to get to school under their own steam and inclination, rather than being dependant on a parent and oil.
I'm sure you can't compare this neighbourhood to the one in this thread, but I found this video illustrating how different our streets could be if we started to design them for people.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
That place is more like Milton Keynes or Swindon. Recently built with oodles of space. And planned.
As you say the model is not transplantable - although I supposed the mini park part of Loughborough Road might end up like this (for about 50 yards).
bimble
floofy
I can't spot what's wrong with the Enugu road system to be honest.
I was in Malawi earlier this year, and here's a photo of the country's main North- south road (something like the M1, if there was only the M1).
We were more or less the only car, which in a way is really idyllic see ?
Maybe that's the answer.. a drastic lowering of GDP
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bimble
floofy
Seems to me that maybe that sort sort of thing should be considered more or less normal, and factored in to plans like this (as well as the major construction work coming etc )?
prunus
Tick tock.
In the 15 years I've lived here I think perhaps the lights have been out maybe 4 or 5 times - I think factoring that level of interruption in might be rather over-fitting the model.
It normally doesn't cause that much problem (as indeed it's not now) - it was the poor phasing of the temporaries recently that was the big problem.
That they're out now just annoys me because *they've just been f**king fixed!*
The temporary traffic light fiasco also annoys me, because I believe it was the primary cause of the jams over the beginning (or just after) of the closure period, which were then attributed to the closures by people all over from the bus drivers to that (frankly rubbish) Evening Standard article, erroneously driving public opinion against them.
fredfelt
Mostly unknown member
The same principles apply to inner cities. Id say it's even more pressing to redesign areas where space is limited as cars take up masses of space next to all other forms of transport. The Dutch model is certainly transportable.
Change has happened before in built up areas which were once heavily congested. Up until 1970's Holland also designed their streets around cars - with little thought for how this impacted on communities. Around '74 a campaign, which translates to 'Stop the child murder', started in De Pijp. The area was then a heavily polluted and congested suburb of Amsterdam. Through collective action, and reclaim the streets style of protesting, the residents managed to change the direction of the suburb and also the nation.
bimble
floofy
It definitely confused things at the worst possible time, that's true.
bimble
floofy
Reminds me - one thing that would help a lot, as a pedestrian, is if the lights worked a bit quicker at the LJ junction. Sometimes it feels like a very long time standing there waiting to cross.
LadyV
Well-Known Member
I do, my friends kids who are a year apart go to different schools in Tulse Hill, not sure why, unless it's their choice but one parent drops off one, one parent drops off the other
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
By car?
LadyV
Well-Known Member
One by car as he's an estate agent, other walking
critical1
All views expressed are definitely my own.
What we have to deal with as LOCAL RESIDENTS, I'll feel safer with more CCTV and police on the beat...
"It is really important that as many people as possible respond to the consultation so that a full range of views are heard - the consultation is open to everyone, not just local residents, so if you cycle through the area please do respond."
"The scheme is supported by local residents and people who cycle through the area. Clare Neely who lives in the neighbourhood says "I am passionate about the scheme because for years local residents have been telling the council that we want to live in a neighbourhood where people feel safe to walk and cycle. "
"It is really important that as many people as possible respond to the consultation so that a full range of views are heard - the consultation is open to everyone, not just local residents, so if you cycle through the area please do respond."
"The scheme is supported by local residents and people who cycle through the area. Clare Neely who lives in the neighbourhood says "I am passionate about the scheme because for years local residents have been telling the council that we want to live in a neighbourhood where people feel safe to walk and cycle. "
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Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
The killer argument to persuade Urban75 posters: protect the right of estate agents to drive their children to school.
ChrisSouth
Well-Known Member
I can see it. Top right
prunus
Tick tock.
Gnomic...
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
I assume from these comments you favour mass Compulsory Purchase Orders, decanting people to New Towns, and building Ring Road 1 - as in the 1940s/50s.
How modern and up with events - not to say the feelings of people who have lived in our community for the last 60 years.
snowy_again
Slush
That approach wasn't used in the Netherlands though was it? I can't quite recall.
LadyV
Well-Known Member
I wasn't supporting his right one way or the other, was merely answering a question. However he drops off his child on route to his office, it's not a journey made especially. You might not like estate agents but when it comes down to it, it's a job and someone has to do it. I remember when I was looking to move, them having a car was pretty handy if you're trying to look at 5 properties in an hour slot. And he's not completely the enemy as he doesn't work near us and it's not for Foxtons!
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
If you want loads of space for cycle ways, grass etc you must demolish.Yeah, kind of like this, only that the thinking is pretty much the exact opposite ?
At the very least you must remove all those bricked up undercrofts put under the flats by Brixton Challenge at vast public expense. Likewise the chainlink and simulated iron bedstead fencing which give that enclosed Colditz feeling to all lawns and communal areas.
Yes there is lots to do - to get back to the future.
bimble
floofy
Imogen Walker (deputy leader of the council) has stepped in to say that yesterday's message (from the deputy mayor) - the one saying the trial will now continue uninterrupted until March- was.. just wrong: 
PS. The big digital £130 signs have disappeared from the junction, they were still there last night.
PS. The big digital £130 signs have disappeared from the junction, they were still there last night.
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fredfelt
Mostly unknown member
No, that's absolute nonsense. With public space effectively reserved for the private motor car people get squeezed out of space which was once considered to be part of the community. Enclosing areas for communities is a response to designing streets for cars.
In De Pijp, and many urban areas in Holland it's the streets which are neighbourhood communal area. There's no need to enclose an area for the community when the streets are part of your community. If you are interested there's a film of how the streets of De Pijp were reclaimed in Holland which you'll be able to find.
In the film there's footage of how in the early 70's the streets were gridlocked, kids had no option but to be driven to school. Now in De Pijp the same buildings have streets with free flowing traffic and clean air and communities - communities develop when people have a chance to meet on streets. That doesn't happen with people isolated in cars. It's busy roads which enclose people in their homes and 'communal areas'.
To return streets to communities back from what was effectively space dedicated to private use to something had to change - and that's to restrict the private car.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
No, you just need to use existing roadspace more efficiently. That's the whole point - having the entire roadspace given over to motor vehicles is a very inefficient use. In many cases you can provide a very decent cycle lane and/or bus lane by removing a car lane, or removing on-street parking as has been discussed before.
The demolition and CPOs come when you want to increase capacity for motor vehicles. The plan to essentially demolish Brixton and Loughborough Junction was all to the end of providing more capacity for motor vehicles. And I bet you, if it had been built, and there had now been a suggestion to reclaim some of that space for cyclists or pedestrians, the drivers would have been up in arms saying south London simply couldn't function without a 6 lane highway tearing through zone 2.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Have you ever been to either of the two Loughborough Estates?
Are you writing this in the UK even - or from the Netherlands?
bimble
floofy
When this thing is presented as an argument between the rights of motorists versus children singing as they walk to school under cherry blossom trees, I find myself totally agreeing with .. teuchter.
Thing is I don't think this particular scheme is any good.
I think alternatives still to be discussed and looked at by Lambeth could be a lot better for Loughborough Junction, for cycling, for public transport users.
I think it's a mistake to reduce the discussion to, basically, cars versus humans, because it means the pros and cons and alternatives to this particular scheme get completely left out of the conversation.
Thing is I don't think this particular scheme is any good.
I think alternatives still to be discussed and looked at by Lambeth could be a lot better for Loughborough Junction, for cycling, for public transport users.
I think it's a mistake to reduce the discussion to, basically, cars versus humans, because it means the pros and cons and alternatives to this particular scheme get completely left out of the conversation.
fredfelt
Mostly unknown member
Surprising as it may sound to some posters here, I'm all in favour of redesigning to have more cycleways to encourage and enable more cycling from those both young and older who are able to do so: but not everyone can and it's not always feasible - it's difficult to cycle safely with school bags/sports kit/musical instrument/a model village you've done for homework, all of which is done in the pouring rain. One has to realise that vehicles need to be used for all sorts of reasons. I support the superhighway scheme in central london, with its concept of shared but separated use of the highway so that motors and cycles can co-exist - making it safe for the casual cyclist is important if you want to encourage more of them - again it's not always feasible for me to cycle if I have several lever arch files of paper to lug around. The present scheme, which cuts off one end (for only 38 yrds) of a wide arterial road suitable for vehicles has already been relaid recently with wide cycle lanes in both directions and was perfectly safe for cyclists. Now it isn't safe. The BBC news clip shows this. Additionally it has cut off those who live south of the block from getting anywhere north, and kettled those who live north of the block (there are still lines of parked cars all along so the suggested that this is low car ownership is a redherring) and its important to remember the longer part of LR is still used by motor vehicles -but then it comes to dead end where the 38 yards of space has no discernable benefit that I can see.
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