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Long Covid

It did and it was.
If I'm reading it right this mean you got it? That's good if so. I'd say great, but it shouldn't even be a debate that people are entitled to it.

I was referred to a new long Covid service that started in Glasgow. They’ve made contact, and I’m having an “initial assessment” call tomorrow. I’m not sure what they’ll do, but at least I feel someone is doing something.
Good luck! There is a wide range of what people are experiencing at LC clinics so it'll be good to hear what your experience is.

I'll share this here as I don't want to bump the ME thread.


Hopefully there is some movement now. Javid is a tosser but I'm glad he got behind this for the 7 days he was health sec. We're 3 years nearly into my partner getting unwell and it's shit tbh.
 
I've got a health questionnaire to fill out for a new job I've been offered. I'm not totally sure how to respond and want to be able to use my letter from the long covid clinic aimed at employers, which predates my application.
 
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Are you still in touch with the long covid clinic? You could get a new letter at a later date I guess.

This is probably bad advice, but I think I'd probably put it down tbh. At least if things do go badly you can fall back on it and have been straight up. You can explain that things have improved etc? I know companies won't stick to it and find ways around it, but if they rejected you for having LC then I'm guessing that would fall under discrimination?
 
I wanted to share this thing someone sent on to me - written by someone who has been suffering with post covid health problems.

I really relate to this and think there is very likely a huge amount of truth to it. Some people may have experienced some more severe physical damage from their infection which may have had a more profound effect, but for me and my expereinces this rings very true.

Whether it really is the ANS and the counteraction by stimulating the vagus nerve or some other part of the body, the overall dynamics sounds right. I'm not vouching for the books mentioned or whats in the links, more the relationship between "stress" and countering with positive experiences, including particular (non stressful!) physical activities. Would be interested to hear peoples thoughts
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Here is an edit of the info I've pulled together for various people interested in my treatment strategy.

I have been doing Chronic Fatigue School, Chronic Fatigue School → Heal CFS With Experts Who've Been There which treats long covid as a disorder of the autonomic nervous system: there is starting to be some research to support the theory that the c19 virus gets into the ANS, and this contributes to the many and weird symptoms. One of the CFS school people, Karden Rabin, has good further resources via his 'stress school'. Karden Rabin's Homepage 2021

This explains the autonomic nervous system, and once I understood a bit about this, it helped me to see why calming the stress response was a good idea, hence doing meditation and such – as a way to enhance the vagus nerve that stimulates rest and digest

Relaxed and Content, Part 1

Relaxed and Content, Part 2

Most of the practitioners offering somatic practices to cope with life are influenced by Bessel van der Kolk's The Body Keeps the Score, which draws on his neurological studes of veterans with PTSD. Other resources from him are here https://www.besselvanderkolk.com

Other good books are Robert Sapolsky – Why Zebras don't get ulcers, which is irritatingly folksy to read but interesting, and Gabor Mate, when the body says no – this is very readable. I haven't read Peter Levine, but he is also well regarded.

The assumption is that when the ANS is dysregulated, the window of tolerance we have for stressful events gets smaller, and so we activate stress responses more readily – these include lots of chronic conditions as well as fatigue. So the solution is to regulate the ANS in order to manage better with every events.

Stephen Porges's polyvagal theory is also influential., This considers the parasympathetic nervous system to have two elements, dorsal (fatigue, depressions) and ventral (well regulated, calm, at peace). This, on what trauma responses do to it, draws a bit on polyvagal theory: Trauma and the Body Basics - Rewriting The Rules

CFS school follows three principles -
Activate the vagus nerve. There are often lists of things to try to activate the vagus nerve (sing! Gargle! Massage face!). For me the more I see a list of bullet point suggestions the less I feel able to do anything. Just doing one thing really was the start. Although now I do quite a range of different vagus activities and I feel the difference when I don't keep up with them. I really like humming, and I cold shower and cold bath regularly.

'brain training' has been a challenge to get my head around. It is close to NLP and positive psychology and that doesn't suit me. I've had to switch off my dislike of that as actually trying some of the retraining ideas has been really beneficial. The main thing is about not trying to manage symptoms, but to think about symptoms as signs of dysregulation rather than specific pathologies that need to be addressed. The idea being that the more you think about yourself as a sick person, the harder it is to break the cycle of illness. I think there is something in brain retraining, but only in tandem with the vagus nerve exercises and maybe some thinking and reflecting on why you might be in a dysregulated state.

A lot of what I am recommending discusses trauma, and often emerged from the treatment of PTSD. It's not always discussed in the resources you might read, but trauma might not mean dramatic events that others would recognise as trauma, but things which were traumatic for you, or the cumulative build up of a life of 'little-t' trauma ("These might be described as the events which exceed our capacity to cope, ie neglect, bullying, abuse, divorce, job loss or abrupt changes in our environment." )

As I have also seen a worsening of asthma – and have been doing some breathwork, especially the Buteyko method as a way to reduce my reliance on inhalers – it also helps with anxiety and fight/flight.

I have a counsellor who has done training that includes training in somatic relationship and, trauma, and who specialises in this kind of 'little t-trauma' (I quote her in the previous par). I was already seeing her, and it has been good to continue with the therapy during the illness as a way to understand the trauma of illness, as well as the other things I was working on with her. For me the nervous system work has been essential to finding some peace away from the 'freeze' state of fatigue, and the talking is what is going to keep me in this healthier way now. I don't want to recover temporarily!
 
Just wanted to pop in on this thread and give my sympathies to anyone suffering.

I've been utterly exhausted since having my latest Covid booster and I don't know how I'd cope if this is remotely like what you continue to experience daily. It reminds me of the week or so post-Covid where I wondered when/if the symptoms would abate.

So yeah, I doubt it helps much, but big hug from me to all of you.
 
Vindicating reading
i basically stopped exercising in 2023 and only long walk, which seems fine for some reason....I miss it but its really helped to NOT exercise...hopefully this isnt for ever
 
"The latest study adds weight to the idea that treatments that improve mitochondrial health could be beneficial, she said"

....such as?
 
"The latest study adds weight to the idea that treatments that improve mitochondrial health could be beneficial, she said"

....such as?

Well, quite. It’s moderately interesting research, which backs up what is already known, but useless if it merely encourages people who flog Q10 enzymes and other snake oil that theoretically does mitochondria good (even though absolutely no-one understands exactly what is going on with LC and ME mitochondria).
 
It’s still very important to have research which points out this kind of basic stuff and keeps the proponents of graded exercise therapy (and sneaky modifications like adaptive pacing) at bay.
well it may well work for some and doing zero exercise is obviously not healthy long term- there are exercise activities that are good, for me at least, but they all involve not getting the heart rate up too high. ...walking...weights....press ups!...i did a bit of kayaking last summer and that was fine too
 
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Vindicating reading
i basically stopped exercising in 2023 and only long walk, which seems fine for some reason....I miss it but its really helped to NOT exercise...hopefully this isnt for ever
People are always making “helpful” suggestions about the exercise I should do. It is the opposite of helpful.
 
well it may well work for some and doing zero exercise is obviously not healthy long term- there are exercise activities that are good, for me at least, but they all involve not getting the heart rate up too high. ...walking...weights....press ups!...i did a bit of kayaking and that was fine too

It’s definitely important to stay well within those limits, but if you don’t crash or experience post-exertional malaise from those activities, fantastic.

I do think that even people who have mild LC should treat all exercise as they would scuba diving or similar - an activity which can cripple you if you exceed uncertain limits.
 
my fucking idiot GP started talking about when he had the flu and all the crap he did

They vary a lot. My GP has been excellent: said from the beginning that it was an unexplainable mitochondrial disease, has been happy to let me experiment with whatever pain relief seems worth trying, assents to anything I want him to say to the DWP. Only problem is that he is at least 110, so this can’t last for ever.

(By the way, my diagnosis isn’t LC, it’s ME, but onset came fairly quickly after my first corona jab and it’s perfectly possible that I had asymptomatic covid anyway. My view is that we’re all in the same boat, but I know that this isn’t always popular with pwLC - especially when the differential diagnosis held out is “CFS”. So if anyone would rather I kept off this thread, please say so. It’s odd enough that it’s still in P&P).
 
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I am really keen to start rehabilitating. I was never an elite athlete, but I am currently really unconditioned due to long covid. So I was pleased when the OT I had as part of the Long Covid Service referral (basically 10 weeks of online presentations that I actually found quite patronising) said she could refer me to a special gym membership scheme with a trainer. Free (for a month).

I went on Wednesday. It was a group session, there were people recovering from all sorts of health problems. The trainer was very nice. I enjoyed the gym session. I was having a good day. But I kind of knew at the time I was doing too much. Thing is, I don’t think she has been briefed on long Covid. I’ve been wrecked since Wednesday. I think it’ll be a waste of time trying to explain to the gym trainer that the symptoms I’ve been experiencing are different from someone who is new to exercise feeling muscle aches. I think she’d be nice about it and try to be encouraging, but I don’t think she’ll get it. She’ll be thinking “new to exercise” rather than “long covid”.

It’s so frustrating. I really wanted this to be a thing I could do. It’s got me down a bit.
 
I am really keen to start rehabilitating. I was never an elite athlete, but I am currently really unconditioned due to long covid. So I was pleased when the OT I had as part of the Long Covid Service referral (basically 10 weeks of online presentations that I actually found quite patronising) said she could refer me to a special gym membership scheme with a trainer. Free (for a month).

I went on Wednesday. It was a group session, there were people recovering from all sorts of health problems. The trainer was very nice. I enjoyed the gym session. I was having a good day. But I kind of knew at the time I was doing too much. Thing is, I don’t think she has been briefed on long Covid. I’ve been wrecked since Wednesday. I think it’ll be a waste of time trying to explain to the gym trainer that the symptoms I’ve been experiencing are different from someone who is new to exercise feeling muscle aches. I think she’d be nice about it and try to be encouraging, but I don’t think she’ll get it. She’ll be thinking “new to exercise” rather than “long covid”.

It’s so frustrating. I really wanted this to be a thing I could do. It’s got me down a bit.

It's a shame it hasn't worked out initially but don't be discouraged! You'll get there. I am currently going to the gym 3 times a week and 3 years ago I could barely get out of bed. I think none of these exercise programs or rehab things with Long Covid work personally... it's a very personal condition and you have to listen to your body and not push beyond 70% or so capacity to avoid post exertional malaise. It's not a one size fits all condition. I generally disagree with concluding from whatever crappy study theyve finally managed to fully avoid exercise (sample size of 25 lol).. I think exercise and movement has been key to my recovery and I'm sure this is the same for many people. But you will feel when it feels right I think. When I was weak I stayed at home for a year despite family and friends moaning at me about what they thought was best. As my fatigue improved I had a strong desire to do exercise and to push my body and I trusted that over what anyone else said.

Personally I would do Qi Gong (great videos been posted on this thread) or something move movement focused over cardio and gym stuff for now. It's amazing honestly, and if you can find a local group to attend even better. I found it invaluable last year when I had a fatigue relapse after getting covid a second time. Not to sound too wu but there was a Qi Gong hospital set up in China that helped numerous people with long term health conditions. Really amazing.

It's also probably worth bearing in mind that it can take time to regain fitness and strength etc but you will have the muscle memory so it won't be that hard. Even fully healthy people can find a return to the gym and exercise knackering and a struggle. But small amounts more regularly is a great way to start... walking, cycling, stretches or whatever you enjoy as a foundation to then build on. The main thing is to keep trying with a gentle approach and not be discouraged or upset if it doesn't quite work out... these ups and downs are part of recovery.
 
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I might have to join you all on here. Whilst we’re waiting for test results to rule out other things, a rheumatologist suggested to me that all my increasing back, neck and sacroiliac joint issues are likely to be a combination of pre-existing hypermobility plus COVID. :(

Anyone here also got a diagnosis or significant traits of hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos syndrome?
 
Not to sound too wu but there was a Qi Gong hospital set up in China that helped numerous people with long term health conditions. Really amazing.
IMO its the opposite of woo - we should all be doing it anyway whatever our health status - i wish i could be more diligent on that, perhaps a class is a good idea to force it to happen

im talking to myself here :D
 
Oh dear, that is a real shame. If the trainer doesn't understand then the class is not really suitable for people with LC. Might be worth going to a second session and explaining though - she might be more understanding than you think?
I did go back and she suggested a very much reduced base level. Which was great. I tried pushing it up from that a bit on Friday, and it’s wrecked me again. I enjoyed it at the time, but it’s Sunday and my LC symptoms are all playing up big time.

So clearly I need to stay at a very low level, and I think the light cardio is OK, but even light resistance is a definite no. So I’m not sure a gym membership is right for me. I can do short walks and qi gong. (I like qi gong anyway).
 
I might have to join you all on here. Whilst we’re waiting for test results to rule out other things, a rheumatologist suggested to me that all my increasing back, neck and sacroiliac joint issues are likely to be a combination of pre-existing hypermobility plus COVID. :(

Anyone here also got a diagnosis or significant traits of hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos syndrome?
That's a bit rubbish. You could dig around on the long-standing forums like this one, which now has a lot on Long Covid Health Rising - Finding Answers for Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS) Phoenix Rising is another similar one.
 
That's a bit rubbish. You could dig around on the long-standing forums like this one, which now has a lot on Long Covid Health Rising - Finding Answers for Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS) Phoenix Rising is another similar one.

They are both quite American and have a high tolerance of woo. S4ME is a better resource for ME/CFS with less nonsense and a greater average level of scientific and clinical literacy. It has a few LC and post-Covid posters, although it’s dominated by long-term ME people.
 
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