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London: the unlockening/relockening

Wow, the photos of Oxford Street. šŸ˜³ I havenā€™t been there since before the pandemic began. If Iā€™m honest itā€™s because Iā€™d find it too depressing. I went into Knightsbridge for a meeting over a year ago and it was a ghost town, but havenā€™t ventured up West since then and now Iā€™ve left London. I think this is mostly an issue of unrealistically high rents from greedy landlords more than anything else, hence the boarded up units. If Philip Green hadnā€™t raided Arcadia (it was cash rich and owned many of the stores, before he cashed them in and rented them back) I reckon theyā€™d have survived this. But the long term trend is to shop online instead, which I almost always do. I find retail overwhelming and tiring. Now Iā€™ve moved up North I can plainly see the difference in cheap and expensive rents. Here in this town there are several small family businesses that thrive, little knitting and sewing shops, a plant shop, an independant diy store, plenty chip shops in some towns that have traded forever, despite opening only a few hours a week. Greedy landlords have ripped the heart out of London, it was exciting in the 90ā€™s, Iā€™m thinking of places like Kensington Market and the original Camden, now itā€™s all so dull and corporate.

London still has about a million of those high street shops, they're just not in WC1.

I was surprised to see so many of the cafes/shops inside Clapham Junction - world's busiest station or whatever it is - are still shut.
 
I think men generally have it easier, but there too I have found that there are now online shops that will give you a range of options for things like thigh size (wide, medium, narrow) and shoulder width (well built, medium, slender). Thereā€™s no way that a physical store can do this ā€” the combinatorics of it are impossible. I donā€˜t know how they can manage it online either but somehow they do.
My experience (and not just for myself) is that this online process often doesn't work either. What you call combinatorics - you can do all the measurements you like, which maybe increases the chance of success, but still the only way to find out is to try the physical thing on the physical person.

My other observation of online shopping is that a large number of things ordered still ends up with a pretty low success rate of things actually being right. And often the things that aren't right sit in a bag waiting to be returned until the deadline passes, and 5 years later finally make it to a charity shop.

For sure there will be some people who generally prefer online... but I don't think the desire to go to physical shops is exactly "niche" yet.
 
I don't think it's niche to want to go to actual shops, there are plenty of people who still do. Increasingly it's not enough people to support the rent on large central properties though which is the main issue.
I imagine a lot of commercial landlords are deciding to hold out a bit to see what actually happens once the pandemic is "over" before accepting that they will have to reduce their expectations for rents.
 
For sure there will be some people who generally prefer online... but I don't think the desire to go to physical shops is exactly "niche" yet.
Alright, ā€œnicheā€ was a bit strong. But the increasing closure of department stores even pre-COVID certainly indicates that it isnā€™t the dominant activity that it once was.

Iā€™d say that your idea of shops adding value via curated collections of stock with a clear identity is something more suited to smaller, boutique stores than department stores. I can well see this being the future of the high street (although online stores also provide this curation service). The shops that have survived to date do seem to be the more specialist ones, rather than the generalists. However, department stores and other shops that previously dominated through size, range, price and convenience are doomed to be beaten by the online giants that can beat them on all four dimensions.
 
London still has about a million of those high street shops, they're just not in WC1.

I was surprised to see so many of the cafes/shops inside Clapham Junction - world's busiest station or whatever it is - are still shut.
Thats true, but a lot of the decent fashion independants in places such as Crouch end, Islington have gone, itā€™s so hard to make it work with the rents. But yeah, whats happened in town, when historic retailers close down or move, Im thinking of Arthur Beale and Stanfords maps. Anywhere else they would not be in that situation. They had sucessful businesses, theyā€™re just not billion dollar corporations.
 
Iā€™d say that your idea of shops adding value via curated collections of stock with a clear identity is something more suited to smaller, boutique stores than department stores.
I'm not exactly thinking of that kind of thing though.

For me at least, I wouldn't go to a department store expecting a selection narrowly curated for "someone like me" - rather, I'd go with a general sort of expectation of price range and quality, and I'd have a sense that one department store would veer one way or the other on a "too boring" vs "too designery" spectrum but I'd not expect everything in there to be potentially of interest to me. It'll contain a bunch of different brands some of which i know it might be worth looking through and some which I know it probably isn't.

It needs to be quite big so that I have enough to choose from. And so there's a better chance that if I do find something, it'll be in stock in the size I want and so on.

The big advantage (again, for me at least) over going round all the individual shops represented by the conecessions in the dept store is that I can do things in one one hit. I can gather a bundle of stuff from different brands and take it to the changing room in one go, instead of having to go around lots of individual shops and multiple changing rooms, perhaps only taking one or two items to most of them. For someone like me who doesn't really enjoy shopping for themselves, this kind of efficiency is valuable.

I quite like TKmax for a similar reason, although it seems to have gone downhill recently and I'm rarely very successful in there now.

Thread is going a bit off track though...
 
I don't think it's niche to want to go to actual shops, there are plenty of people who still do. Increasingly it's not enough people to support the rent on large central properties though which is the main issue.
I quite enjoyed a small post-Xmas sales shop in Muswell Hill where there are nice Actual Shops but it's not going to be as rammed as West End/malls - which of course is part of the reason these sorts of high streets have done comparatively well during COVID.

I still say the best answer for central London is to find, somehow, a way for more ordinary people to live in it. Currently Zone 1 has social housing (not enough) and pads for multimillionaires and nothing in between. The difficulty is of course the insane underlying land values which make building affordably basically impossinle but if there were a way to get in more social housing, subsided housing for key workers and perhaps some kind of mechanism so that 'ordinary mortals' on middle incomes can live centrally that would be great. I mean everyone goes on about building around travel hubs, but that's not much good if routes get so busy that no one can get on a bus or train by the time it's halfway into town, which was already happening (I'm talking to you, Victoria line) before COVID.
 
The thing with physical shops, particularly when you live in London, is that actually getting to the shops takes a lot of travel time and hassle and when you do get to the shops, they are absolutely chockful of people making the whole experience a living hell.

This is the major reason I do all my shopping online now. I can't even remember the last time I went to a shop that wasn't a supermarket.
If you live in London it's takes no time to get to the shops either by bus or tube though saying that I will generally walk. As for being chock-full of people, my limited experience is they have never been as empty as they are now. The only clothing I have ever bought on line is the odd specialist tee shirt which would never make it to the high street.
If I can't be bothered to go to the shops to look for something I don't really need it.
 
Yeah, in my town they are throwing money at the town centre and the plan is to change the mix - it was mostly retail in the past so now they are adding more residential, entertainment (eg a cinema), student 6th form additional campus, and non-retail business premises to the picture.
 
I've always avoided Oxford Street etc around Christmas and midsummer as too busy and pollution gives me a headache, but I quite like going to the King's Road - it's got everything and also some nicer niche shops, it's not as busy as West End and because it's in a posh area staff seem to treat you more attentively than in your average high street in case you're going to spend Ā£Ā£Ā£Ā£ :thumbs:

Actually, once I've recovered from this fucking covid I'm probably due a mosey down there...
 
I quite enjoyed a small post-Xmas sales shop in Muswell Hill where there are nice Actual Shops but it's not going to be as rammed as West End/malls - which of course is part of the reason these sorts of high streets have done comparatively well during COVID.

I still say the best answer for central London is to find, somehow, a way for more ordinary people to live in it. Currently Zone 1 has social housing (not enough) and pads for multimillionaires and nothing in between. The difficulty is of course the insane underlying land values which make building affordably basically impossinle but if there were a way to get in more social housing, subsided housing for key workers and perhaps some kind of mechanism so that 'ordinary mortals' on middle incomes can live centrally that would be great. I mean everyone goes on about building around travel hubs, but that's not much good if routes get so busy that no one can get on a bus or train by the time it's halfway into town, which was already happening (I'm talking to you, Victoria line) before COVID.
If it turns out post covid that there's a significant reduction in demand for retail and office space in central London, then I'd have thought that you'd see more space being turned over to residential and rents dropping somewhat, without active intervention. Doesn't get you social housing but the threshold for being able to live there might become lower.
 
Jubilee line was packed this morning. couldn't get on the first one through London Bridge this morning, like old times! obviously Northern line being closed doesn't help.
 
Jubilee is packed cos of norn line closure. Its getting busier week by week though.
Was out in Soho last weekend, packed pubs and restaurants and a disconcerting happy and unaggy atmosphere everywhere. Was nice.
 
I see that article has the usual shit quote in it about "All customers should be assured that the public transport network is as safe as other similar settings, and that independent testing has found no trace of coronavirus on our network since September 2020."

They may as well claim "our records show that Covid-19 has not bought a ticket to ride since September 2020".
 
I see that article has the usual shit quote in it about "All customers should be assured that the public transport network is as safe as other similar settings, and that independent testing has found no trace of coronavirus on our network since September 2020."

They may as well claim "our records show that Covid-19 has not bought a ticket to ride since September 2020".
It's not all that far from the conspiraloons' own version of cargo cult immunology, is it?
 
Since Christmas my experience is that there are more mask wearers than there were after July 'freedom' day last year.

At that point what I saw was maybe 30% and now it's about 60%
 
I do train more often than tube. Train is defo more on than off.

But last week I did about 5 tube journeys and also did a bit of a count, cos why not, and it was more on than off but only just.

Three were commute time and two were out.
 
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