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London Gentrification

They'll still come, it's where the jobs and opportunities are, but they'll live in overcrowded rented accommodation, moving further out to get a rented place by themselves as they get older, or leave when they hit their 30s. Lots of people aren't leaving London now to cash in their property asset and buy a large house elsewhere as the myth often goes, they're leaving to rent somewhere slightly more affordable.
 
On another note there is the issue of building high - I think this is where new building is going to happen - toblerone3 was saying the other day that brownfield building basically means high rise building....

Personally I'd rather that than greenfield sprawl... what have the Tories lined up on greenfield building?

Yep big residential skyscrapers in pre-app stage in Walthamstow High Street and Blackhorse Road.
 
I can't help thinking it's not going to be possible for the vermin to keep inflating the bubble for the next 5 years. (although people were predicting a crash any time soon from about 2002)

Think there will be a crash at some point in the next year or two, which will get blamed on Europe / immigrants / the labour government / the lib-dem bit of the coalition government / any combination thereof, followed by an artificial 'recovery' in time for the 2020 election...

There's money to be made out of boom and bust if you sell just before the crash and have the money to hand to buy during the slump, which the vermin and their chums will.

Blargh.
 
When I were a lad - you could get council housing in say Camden as a London arrival from the wilds - my friends did it - and it was OK (cos population was down and an ageing indigenous population) - so you could make a start and hopefully in a few years make the first steps - to quot some good friends of mine - lived in a Camden Tower block for 2/ 3 years (after renting a shithole in Queens Park - then a middling / slumbering area) - bought a flat in said area for about £36K in 1982 - and gradually moved on up via the back end of Chiswick . slightly ropey Shepherds Bush and now live in leafy Greenwich Park. Worked hard and - and had some luck.

My nephew is lodging with us - (free) his first London job is £25K (from Hereford - so a bit of a shock to him) - has a room planned near Oval soon for over £700 a month. How do we get the bright young , able new generation into London.? - half my nephews and nieces would love to come for a few years..?

When I moved to London back in the 80s young people (and probably not-so-young as well) had many more cheap and cheerful choices such as shortlife, squatting, and basic shared accommodation at a reasonable rent (no central heating, crap furniture, ancient bathroom etc.) as well as hard-to-let council flats.

Those options have now all gone. Shortlife has mainly been replaced by property guardianship, squatting in residential property is criminalised, private sector rented is often 'luxury' style (wifi and big TV) with a rent to match, and what was once hard-to-let (fourth floor with no lift, twentieth floor of tower block etc.) is now used for homeless families.
 
I'm almost interested in what a gentrified South Norwood would be like. I just can't imagine it which is probably why I'll stay here (or close) for a while

hope I'm never priced out of my home. I feel for those who have been.
 
The Gentry have been in London for ages;)
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I'm almost interested in what a gentrified South Norwood would be like. I just can't imagine it which is probably why I'll stay here (or close) for a while

hope I'm never priced out of my home. I feel for those who have been.
i've gone from wanting my little corner of SE25 (the thornton heath, grange road end) to be "gentrified" but then, after living here a year or so, actually ditching the idea. there is such a strong sense of community and so many normal families with fairly normal paying jobs (carpenters, clerks, elecys, postmen, bus drivers) - why turn it into just another richman's ghetto?
 
I haven't paid! :D

But sure...

Paris’s social housing is abundant. But it is around the edge, or “outside the Périphérique”, lending an impression of exclusion. The cities of former eastern bloc nations are ringed by Soviet-designed towers. But London and New York, Hong Kong and Singapore — cities with booming property markets and thriving economies — still feature big social housing estates at their hearts. Precisely that social mix makes for a diverse and successful city, the integration bringing the wealthy and the poor into proximity so reducing the sense of urban alienation and isolation. A gentrified centre might be good for tourists but does not make an adaptable city. It petrifies.

Last week Brandon Lewis, UK housing minister, called for the demolition of London’s council estates and their replacement with denser mixed developments as a response to the city’s housing crisis. He echoes a proposal by Labour peer Lord Adonis, who this year said that, while the capital’s population now matches its 1939 high of more than 8m, its centre is far less dense.

What is not noted is that pre-war density was largely down to slum housing. Furthermore, it is reported that the Conservative government’s plan to force local authorities to sell high-value social housing will fail to raise the forecast £4.5bn intended to fund further building. The policy is described by Kate Barker, economist and author of a significant housing report, as “another rather bitty housing measure”.

London’s housing estates were built in three waves. The first was led by philanthropists such as George Peabody and the Guinness family following Victorian clearances of those slums; and by the London County Council, which, with its 1890 demolition of the Old Nichol slum in east London’s Shoreditch, created in the Boundary estate the world’s first big municipal social housing project.

The next two waves were created by the decline of the great private landed estates, often through punitive postwar death duties, and the break-up of their grounds around London (Roehampton’s pioneering 1958 Alton estate for instance) and by the gaps left in the centre by bombing.

In the 1950s, when it was assumed London would continue to shrink, they were built according to modernist ideals, demanding natural light, space and parkland. There was an element of social engineering to their placement in prime areas such as Chelsea, the City of London, Westminster and Pimlico to prevent segregation of the working or middle classes. Singapore has used a similar policy of maintaining mixed social and ethnic populations in what is often seen as one of the world’s most successful public housing policies.

Singapore has used a similar policy of maintaining mixed social and ethnic populations

Back in London recent redevelopments replacing, for example, south London’s ambitious but poorly maintained 1960s Aylesbury estate, have met fierce resistance from residents, most of whom would never be rehoused in such a central area. The problem is that redevelopment involves properties at full market rents alongside a small proportion at “affordable” rents. In a city where “affordable” can be defined as up to 80 per cent of market rents, the phrase becomes meaningless. In central London this could mean about £650 a week for a three-bedroom property. Working 40 hours at the minimum wage, meanwhile, earns you £260. There is, incidentally, no proposal to study the occupancy of Belgravia properties — which have become a preferred safe deposit of the global super-rich — to gauge the effect of a lack of density.

The plan to rid London of its central social housing is short-sighted. It would rob the streetscapes of the bustle of everyday life and accelerate a slide into an empty vehicle for investment — the difference between a city that has the flexibility to adapt and absorb change, and one that stagnates as a luxury enclave.
 
I haven't paid! :D

But sure...
I've worked in social housing for about 20 years - mostly in Central London boroughs - there are very few areas without an element of Social Housing and one of the few positives of high London prices is that it makes it more difficult for tenants in these areas to exercise their Right To Buy - if you are in a block in Kensington, even the £100k discount is not going to make it affordable to most people. The Tories would have to basically give the flats away to make them affordable (and I'm sure there is some Tory Policy wonk considering this right now :facepalm:)

I like the mix of tenures in areas , clearly something the Tories don't like, and it smells of gerrymandering if they want to reduce social housing in an area and replace it with owner occupiers :hmm:
 
I've worked in social housing for about 20 years - mostly in Central London boroughs - there are very few areas without an element of Social Housing and one of the few positives of high London prices is that it makes it more difficult for tenants in these areas to exercise their Right To Buy - if you are in a block in Kensington, even the £100k discount is not going to make it affordable to most people. The Tories would have to basically give the flats away to make them affordable (and I'm sure there is some Tory Policy wonk considering this right now :facepalm:)

I like the mix of tenures in areas , clearly something the Tories don't like, and it smells of gerrymandering if they want to reduce social housing in an area and replace it with owner occupiers :hmm:
yes. but what if they don't just want to do it in an area of london but across london?
 
yes. but what if they don't just want to do it in an area of london but across london?
Demolishing and rebuilding all the estates in London - that is an enormous job - they''d get opposition from all the councils about that I'd have thought - it takes an age to demolish a estate and rebuild it - I was working on one small scheme a few years ago - demolishing 2 small blocks and an industrial estate - that has taken about 4 years so far - and won't be finished for another 6 months or so. There is all the moving tenants out and rehousing them for a start - that can take an age. The redevelopment Woodberry Down up in Manor House has been going on for decades, I was involved with it in 2003 and it is still not completed.
 
Demolishing and rebuilding all the estates in London - that is an enormous job - they''d get opposition from all the councils about that I'd have thought - it takes an age to demolish a estate and rebuild it - I was working on one small scheme a few years ago - demolishing 2 small blocks and an industrial estate - that has taken about 4 years so far - and won't be finished for another 6 months or so. There is all the moving tenants out and rehousing them for a start - that can take an age. The redevelopment Woodberry Down up in Manor House has been going on for decades, I was involved with it in 2003 and it is still not completed.
i don't think you'd need a ton of demolition, people are being forced out of london by other means and the people replacing them are, in the auld euphemism, 'well-heeled'
 
i don't think you'd need a ton of demolition, people are being forced out of london by other means and the people replacing them are, in the auld euphemism, 'well-heeled'
I think I'd prefer to take on those homes in London with massive gardens - if you want a massive garden - move out of London - we could build on those - Buckingham Palace has a massive garden - and they have to move out anyway to get their works done - whilst Maj is slumming it in her temporary castle - we could build a few estates in the grounds of Buckingham Palace:thumbs: She'd have to have smaller garden parties - we are all in it together maj:thumbs:
 
Demolishing and rebuilding all the estates in London - that is an enormous job - they''d get opposition from all the councils about that I'd have thought <snip>
You forget that you're a halfway rational human being, whereas councils can't be relied upon to either think or behave like you.

Lambeth council at least seems to have fully embraced the idea. As far as they're concerned, rehousing during the work isn't a problem as the demolition and rebuilding can be done piecemeal, 'decanting' people into the newly completed bit before you empty their homes to demolish and rebuild. Of course, this doesn't solve the question of where you move the first blockful of people, but we really must stop being boringly practical and crashing their dreams. :facepalm:
 
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