Lock up your robots! Cashless society is coming!!

[ska invita]

........ the Scandis have stopped printing banknotes and closed heir last mint, such is the take up of e-payments. Also Interesting is the impact upon the black economy

Scandinavia's Disappearing Cash Act

Amazing...the future is coming fast.
The article points out it helps state tax revenue as you cant pay for things cash in hand...It definitely also threatens things like the drug trade.

Theres also the connection with a total surveillance culture that comes with it...every thing you buy is recorded....

I havent thought through the full implications of this...any ideas?

 

[Pickman's model]

Amazing...the future is coming fast.
The article points out it helps state tax revenue as you cant pay for things cash in hand...It definitely also threatens things like the drug trade.

Theres also the connection with a total surveillance culture that comes with it...every thing you buy is recorded....

I havent thought through the full implications of this...any ideas?

incentivises hacking and cyberwar, as bring the banks' systems down and you've defeated that society.

 

[ska invita]

incentivises hacking and cyberwar, as bring the banks' systems down and you've defeated that society.

yeah thats true, but tbh it would have that effect if you managed to pull it off today.

 

[not-bono-ever]

This is slightly dry, but the BoE has done a great deal of work on Digital currencies from a central bank perspective0- this paper sorta touches on the potential impact.

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/research/Documents/workingpapers/2016/swp605.pdf

 

[Pickman's model]

yeah thats true, but tbh it would have that effect if you managed to pull it off today.

i wouldn't.

the russians or chinese, on the other hand, might - especially as the potential for wars between nato and those countries exists.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Any discussion of E-Money invariably falls into a freemen of the land : Fiat money death spiral BTW

 

[bi0boy]

incentivises hacking and cyberwar, as bring the banks' systems down and you've defeated that society.

That's no different to now. Paper money only has value as long as there is confidence in the banking system.

 

[Pickman's model]

That's no different to now. Paper money only has value as long as there is confidence in the banking system.

it is different to now, as at the moment cash circulates in tangible form and so there is some resilence in the system. if all of a sudden it becomes impossible to pay bills, to buy shopping, to use your contactless to travel to work etc then you don't need to do the traffic system as in the italian job. there may still be great confidence in e.g. the pound. but if you can't get anything because the payment systems aren't working and there's no alternative to the mighty machine there'd be riots within a couple of days. at which point, country pretty much paralysed and if country x doesn't stop with fucking the banks but also does the police computer system or hack into infrastructure (which latter i don't imagine would be *too* difficult) then any invasion may be just a matter of strolling in.

 

[mwgdrwg]

...
Theres also the connection with a total surveillance culture that comes with it...every thing you buy is recorded....

It's already happening in the US, everything you purchase online to be recorded by the government:

If you bought a dildo in Denver, the government must legally be told

 

[Pickman's model]

It's already happening in the US, everything you purchase online to be recorded by the government:

If you bought a dildo in Denver, the government must legally be told

not sure that's quite what the article says. for example, if i lived in denver and bought a dildo online from a business in colorado it doesn't appear it would be recorded. but if i lived outside the state and bought from mwgdrwg's dildo emporium in denver then i would.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

The Indians haven't quite done away with cash but removed Notes or any real value due to people not paying tax (apparently)

 

[mwgdrwg]

not sure that's quite what the article says. for example, if i lived in denver and bought a dildo online from a business in colorado it doesn't appear it would be recorded. but if i lived outside the state and bought from mwgdrwg's dildo emporium in denver then i would.

View attachment 97216

As you well know, start off small then gradually increase the probing.

 

[J Ed]

Will street level drug transactions eventually be done in bitcoin?

 

[Pickman's model]

As you well know, start off small then gradually increase the probing.

it's the kind and considerate advice you offer gratis with every purchase which has led to your dildo emporium's success.

 

[ska invita]

This is slightly dry, but the BoE has done a great deal of work on Digital currencies from a central bank perspective0- this paper sorta touches on the potential impact.

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/research/Documents/workingpapers/2016/swp605.pdf

understatement of the year - its drier than the sahara. Any conclusions you can get from it? Ive read the Conclusions and got nothing from that!

 

[teuchter]

Amazing...the future is coming fast.
The article points out it helps state tax revenue as you cant pay for things cash in hand...It definitely also threatens things like the drug trade.

Theres also the connection with a total surveillance culture that comes with it...every thing you buy is recorded....

I havent thought through the full implications of this...any ideas?

Slightly misleading quote in your OP, as all that's happened is that they've outsourced their money printing. It's not like they are stopping using cash yet.

 

[not-bono-ever]

understatement of the year - its drier than the sahara. Any conclusions you can get from it? Ive read the Conclusions and got nothing from that!

Its from a high level monetary policy level really - the general theme is that is we do jump into digital balance sheets full time, it will be easier to keep on top of things from a MP perspective and anticipate shocks or bumps along the way. Everything is trackable in theory. The BoE paper should be read alongside something like this below to see where they are coming from. the conclusion is that the central banks are theoretically in favour of movements in this direction with the usual caveat of robustness to make sure it works.

http://nowandfutures.com/large/SystemicBankingCrisesDatabasewp12163(imf).pdf

 

[not-bono-ever]

Slightly misleading quote in your OP, as all that's happened is that they've outsourced their money printing. It's not like they are stopping using cash yet.

Other way around- coins now all getting minted in finland, and the Denmarks will keep the paper printing in country ( via De la Rue probably ), but they are not bothered about printing anything else at the minute

 

[ska invita]

Other way around- coins now all getting minted in finland, and the Denmarks will keep the paper printing in country ( via De la Rue probably ), but they are not bothered about printing anything else at the minute

...the point being that this change has been driven my the economics of falling need

 

[salem]

Will street level drug transactions eventually be done in bitcoin?

Giftcards?

 

[teuchter]

...the point being that this change has been driven my the economics of falling need

I think we're all fairly well aware that cash is being used less and less. The continuation of a trend that's been going on for a while.

If any country decides to go entirely cash-less, then that will be a significant moment. Doesn't seem like we're approaching that point yet though.

 

[DotCommunist]

street level drug trade inna cashless society. Theres a puzzler. Barter is always one way, but say you sell 11 10 bags of whatever per day, for thirty fags or a bottle of whickey per trade. Just not practicle is it. within the month you'd need a spare room for all your barter. localist/shady scrip is another one but who enforces wether its worth anything and what its worth. I don't want baron scarface to be the one who enforces the value of a currency. Everytime he was skint or coked up he could just devalue it.

 

[bi0boy]

stereet level drug trade inna cashless society. Theres a puzzler. Barter is always one way, but say you sell 11 10 bags of whatever per day, for thirty fags or a bottle of whickey per trade. Just not practicle is it. within the month you'd need a spare room for all your barter. localist/shady scrip is another one but who enforces wether its worth anything and what its worth. I don't wan't baron scarface to be the one who enforces the value of a currency. Everytime he was skint or coked up he could just devalue it.

pay £30 on contactless for my totally handmade plastic model of big ben.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Lots of work being carried out on phone based cashless stuff in Africa- circumventing the normal banking evolution model we have accepted. In some wa6ys, it still needs a level of cash money circulating for obvious cash purchase like in markets and stuff , but more places are getting involved in e-payments via the phones. Obviously registration of phones and suchlike would bring this back into the central bank fold entirely, but it is interesting on a regional level

 

[Pickman's model]

pay £30 on contactless for my totally handmade plastic model of big ben.

i see you've been buying from mwgdrwg's dildo emporium

 

[camouflage]

Amazing...the future is coming fast.
The article points out it helps state tax revenue as you cant pay for things cash in hand...It definitely also threatens things like the drug trade.

Theres also the connection with a total surveillance culture that comes with it...every thing you buy is recorded....

I havent thought through the full implications of this...any ideas?

A boon for crypto.

 

[camouflage]

Will street level drug transactions eventually be done in bitcoin?

More like that sort of street commerce is migrating to Tor networks.

 

[camouflage]

Lots of work being carried out on phone based cashless stuff in Africa- circumventing the normal banking evolution model we have accepted. In some wa6ys, it still needs a level of cash money circulating for obvious cash purchase like in markets and stuff , but more places are getting involved in e-payments via the phones. Obviously registration of phones and suchlike would bring this back into the central bank fold entirely, but it is interesting on a regional level

Yeah, MPESA in Kenya, also crypto is starting up, beachheading in SA and Nigeria I beleive.