Loads of profs and docs dissent from Darwinian "consensus"

[Aldebaran]

Because, despite it all, max really does talk complete shite, Gorski doesn't. So while we might disagree, and G dismiss those disagreements, it's still better and more progressive than debating with Mr Freakout. In fact I think you're doing G a disservice in that comparison Alde.

I don't know. I'm not a fan of the tactics of Max to throw around insults, but he has a decently functioning brain, nevertheless.

gorski can't do anything else but throwing around insults. It must be an addiction

salaam.

 

[Knotted]

Yep, me not English... And me not sorry, either... well, seeing most of yous...

Well talk about your praxis tradition then. I'm genuinely interested in it. You go on and on about 'your tradition', yet you have nothing to say about it.

 

[Aldebaran]

Edit: Actually scratch that. Its not my peculiarities. Gorski is now pretending that scientists don't understand the danger of nuclear weapons if they have not had a philosophical/humanist education. Sorry, gorski talks more shit than max. End of.

mmm... Don't know your education system, but everywhere I studied every first year student no matter the field got at least one full semester and more often than not a full academic year introduction courses in philosophy on his plate. To translate that in "credits" that would count for 5 to 8 on a total of 60 the first year.

salaam.

 

[Knotted]

mmm... Don't know your education system, but everywhere I studied every first year student no matter the field got at least one full semester and more often than not a full academic year introduction courses on philosophy on his plate.

salaam.

I did a semester of philosophy (1/6th of my first year), but it was at such a basic level I quit going to the lectures. It included some stuff about ethics in science. That was particularly useless. Its just not the sort of stuff that you sit down and learn, its stuff you either care about or you don't.

 

[gorski]

Well talk about your praxis tradition then. I'm genuinely interested in it. You go on and on about 'your tradition', yet you have nothing to say about it.

Search and ye shall find... [on this very forum, maybe even this very thread... ]

 

[Knotted]

Search and ye shall find... [on this very forum, maybe even this very thread... ]

Yes I know you've mentioned it. But what relevance is it to this particular question? What have you learnt that enlightens you on this?

Not that I think it isn't relelvant, its just you haven't said anything yet. I almost thought you were going to say something interesting about Polanyi. It didn't happen. I thought maybe you might use some of that critical theory you keep banging on about. It didn't happen. Now its Praxis, and as a philosophy student from FRY, you should be able to say something interesting. I would love to learn something. To be honest it would surprise me if they were coming up with such an extreme radical all-embracing "agnosticism", but if this tradition is so important to your outlook then they must surely have been saying something quite unusual and unusual is interesting to me.

 

[Aldebaran]

I did a semester of philosophy (1/6th of my first year), but it was at such a basic level I quit going to the lectures. It included some stuff about ethics in science. That was particularly useless. Its just not the sort of stuff that you sit down and learn, its stuff you either care about or you don't.

No, ethics was separate courses and second year stuff

salaam.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

When I was an impoverished postgrad at Sussex, I got involved in teaching philosophy to a bunch of extremely hostile first year scientists, chemists mostly, who were being made to do some arts courses as part of their degree. It was pretty unrewarding. In the end I gave up on the fluffy stuff and took them through Godel's incompleteness theorem, very, very slowly and painfully ...

 

[8ball]

In the end I gave up on the fluffy stuff and took them through Godel's incompleteness theorem, very, very slowly and painfully ...

You have my sympathies, dude.

 

[gorski]

Yes I know you've mentioned it. But what relevance is it to this particular question? What have you learnt that enlightens you on this?

Not that I think it isn't relelvant, its just you haven't said anything yet. I almost thought you were going to say something interesting about Polanyi. It didn't happen. I thought maybe you might use some of that critical theory you keep banging on about. It didn't happen. Now its Praxis, and as a philosophy student from FRY, you should be able to say something interesting. I would love to learn something. To be honest it would surprise me if they were coming up with such an extreme radical all-embracing "agnosticism", but if this tradition is so important to your outlook then they must surely have been saying something quite unusual and unusual is interesting to me.

SFRY!

Search and ye shall find... [on this very forum, maybe even this very thread... ]

 

[revol68]

Gorski's hilariously niave and idealist claim that scientists wouldn't work on nasty things if they had a better philosophical/ethical education tickles me greatly. As someone who bangs on about Critical Theory it seems odd that he would but such faith in such a narrowly individualistic and niavely rationalistic notion of simple 'better education', as if social realations and a complex web of discursive pratice can be overturned by a few lectures on continental philosophy. Like the Frankfurter's he wanks on about he has reverted back to an idealism, instead of a materialist analysis of social relations and historical dynamics we get some vague philosophical wank like 'instrumental reason' that becomes responsible for the sins of the West.

 

[Knotted]

Search and ye shall find... [on this very forum, maybe even this very thread...]

This is all the mentions of "praxis" in this forum:
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=7034002

That's seven, of which four are yours. Two of these do not refer to the praxis school. The other two are replies to me quoting me quoting "praxis".

So I was wrong to even say that you had even mentioned praxis in this forum. You have just mumbled something or other about your tradition being different to what the English are used to. I jumped to the conclusion that you were talking about the praxis school.

Perhaps you are thinking of a different forum?

On the "Are human beings a type of animal?" thread you link to a piece by Marcuse. Is this what you are talking about?

On the evolutionary stategies thread you say:
"Sure. One is yours. Between a Marxian [say, Ernst Bloch] or Critical Theory [the development from Horkheimer/Adorno/Benjamin and co. to Habermas and co.] or Praxis Philosophy [the Zagreb School] and yours - I know which one I'm opting for and why..."

And I'm afraid that seems to be the most detail that you have given.

 

[Knotted]

OK, against my better judgement, I've spent 45 minutes trawling through gorski's old posts. Nothing's showing up.

Gorski, can you answer me a simple question? Can you name a critical theorist or a praxis school theorist who has anything similar to your line on Darwinism and its relation to social Darwinism?

Argument from authority is bad enough, but if there isn't even an authority (and I'm afraid it looks that way at the minute!) then that's just dishonest. Indeed its grossly dishonest considering how often you do it.

Of course if you can answer my question then I'll take that back.

 

[gorski]

AaaaaaaaaaaaaaHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!!!!

Gorski's hilariously niave and idealist claim that scientists wouldn't work on nasty things if they had a better philosophical/ethical education tickles me greatly.

See, this is the best proof pro philosophical education for your ilk - no idea about thinking...

Otherwise, it would have been laughable, if it weren't sad...

As someone who bangs on about Critical Theory it seems odd that he would but such faith in such a narrowly individualistic and niavely rationalistic notion of simple 'better education', as if social realations and a complex web of discursive pratice can be overturned by a few lectures on continental philosophy.

Yep, see above. You really are a slob...

Like the Frankfurter's he wanks on about he has reverted back to an idealism, instead of a materialist analysis of social relations and historical dynamics we get some vague philosophical wank like 'instrumental reason' that becomes responsible for the sins of the West.

You have no idea just what that is, to begin with, so... spout on some more shit, won't you... show us just how arrogant, ignorant and probably even quite stupid you really are...

[A better spelling might be a good start...]

 

[revol68]

See, this is the best proof pro philosophical education for your ilk - no idea about thinking...

Otherwise, it would have been laughable, if it weren't sad...



Yep, see above. You really are a slob...



You have no idea just what that is, to begin with, so... spout on some more shit, won't you... show us just how arrogant, ignorant and probably even quite stupid you really are...

[A better spelling might be a good start...]

if you're gonna bitch about typos i'd imagine it's best not to do so in a sentence like "A better spelling might be a good start".

Muppet.

now fuck off and wank over marcuse you one dimensional fuckmuppet.

 

[revol68]

Oh and for the record Gorski I did philosophy and politics at uni, I'm not a scientist and my interests are generally in utopian and post marxian thought, yet it would still appear that this was insuffieicent in raising my ability to "think" to a standard you deem acceptable, which rather ironically only serves to further undermine your argument that a grounding in philosophy is the remedy.

epic lulz!

 

[gorski]

In that case you're the worst "philosopher" [and I use the term very loosely, with apologies to the real ones!!!] I have ever "heard"!!!!

And that makes you a stupid fucking cunt!!! Now, back under the bloody stone you crawled from!

 

[Crispy]

And that makes you a stupid fucking cunt!!! Now, back under the bloody stone you crawled from!

Moderator hat ON

I know condescention and arrogance is part of your debating 'technique' but you've been taking it too far recently. Please refrain from using abuse as an argument.

That goes for both of you, really.

 

[revol68]

In that case you're the worst "philosopher" [and I use the term very loosely, with apologies to the real ones!!!] I have ever "heard"!!!!

And that makes you a stupid fucking cunt!!! Now, back under the bloody stone you crawled from!

well i'd never claim to be a 'philosopher' and have little time for the sort of gobshites that do (as if critical thinking is some sort of specialised profession). Infact in so much as i'm interested in philosophy it is in the kind of (anti) philosophy of Marx, y'know the big grand daddy of all the 'critical theory' stuff you mouth off about.

Still i'd like you to make some moves towards an actual argument, what do you disagree with and why in my posts, have I misrepresented you etc?

Shouldn't be hard for a "philosopher"

 

[gorski]

Moderator hat ON

I know condescention and arrogance is part of your debating 'technique' but you've been taking it too far recently. Please refrain from using abuse as an argument.

That goes for both of you, really.

I never started it! If you must - start from the bastard!

Or is defending oneself suddenly not on?

Like your hat, when it should be...

 

[gorski]

well i'd never claim to be a 'philosopher' and have little time for the sort of gobshites that do (as if critical thinking is some sort of specialised profession). Infact in so much as i'm interested in philosophy it is in the kind of (anti) philosophy of Marx, y'know the big grand daddy of all the 'critical theory' stuff you mouth off about.

Still i'd like you to make some moves towards an actual argument, what do you disagree with and why in my posts, have I misrepresented you etc?

Shouldn't be hard for a "philosopher"

Like you "debate" a la "gorski speaks nothing but shit", right? Argument? Fuck off, you pompous bastard, who attacks people when completely unprovoked!!!

 

[Bernie Gunther]

If you've got anything to say, just say it so people can understand it, don't posture, get aggressive and bullshit. It's really not that difficult. If what you have to say is worth anything, if you say it clearly, then people will see it is.

 

[gorski]

A "critically minded philosopher" who jumps on a bandwagon and plays herd psychology - oh, yes, missus...

 

[gorski]

If you've got anything to say, just say it so people can understand it, don't posture, get aggressive and bullshit. It's really not that difficult. If what you have to say is worth anything, if you say it clearly, then people will see it is.

People = all too frequently - do have this weird idea that they know everything and they don't need to ask questions, like presume who started it etc.

Ace!

 

[phildwyer]

Like the Frankfurter's he wanks on about he has reverted back to an idealism, instead of a materialist analysis of social relations and historical dynamics we get some vague philosophical wank like 'instrumental reason' that becomes responsible for the sins of the West.

Far from indulging in "vague wank," the Frankfurters precisely and specifically identify "instrumental reason" with Baconian empiricism. Would you dispute that Baconian empiricism bears a heavy burden of responsibility for the sins of the West, and most especially for capitalism?

 

[888]

Oh and for the record Gorski I did philosophy and politics at uni, I'm not a scientist and my interests are generally in utopian and post marxian thought, yet it would still appear that this was insuffieicent in raising my ability to "think" to a standard you deem acceptable, which rather ironically only serves to further undermine your argument that a grounding in philosophy is the remedy.

epic lulz!

Gorski thinks everyone is an ignorant science worshipper apart from him.

 

[888]

Would you dispute that Baconian empiricism bears a heavy burden of responsibility for the sins of the West, and most especially for capitalism?

Capitalism would have arisen regardless of whether Bacon lived or was aborted as a fetus.

 

[gorski]

Another fair-minded genius...

 

[888]

I imagine all the smileys represent the weird facial twitches Gorski goes through as he posts...

 

[gorski]

Might pain you to find out this is a "flat" = one dimensional medium, so... But brains like you... Echhhhhhh...