The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I'm off here early next month
Lisbon
- Thread starter Proper Tidy
- Start date
Oh! Is it? You are going to try and tell U75 all about relationships and a city you know fuck all about now? This is Pickman's - the fountain of miss-knowledge.
Hey, fuck wit - you have no chance of a relationship and probably will never visit Lisbon. Fuck off you pathetic little cunt. You want to mess with me?
TBH, Sintra is all a lot of hype. Beautiful for an afternoon. Shit for anything more. Unless you have Three nights to walk in the hills - if you like a good hike it is fabulous. However, everything closes at 7PM.
As far as beaches go, just hit the coast and meander. It is very beautiful in an Atlantic way - don't expect to be able to laze on a beach and bask, it is a little more vigorous than that, but very beautiful in an Atlantic way! Just ride your moped and you will find the wilderness beaches.
Mountain type places are a little too far for a moped trip. I would suggest you don't waste your time on that. Obidos is well worth a scooter ride. Very quaint and all that
Sintra.
For those who have never been...
It is a fabulous collection of palaces and rich peoples homes built around a very lush bay. Most people who visit don't even see the 'real' town of Sintra. It is a fantasy park basically. You walk up the hill past all the art and stuff looking at the marvelous houses the rich built in their time. That is about it. And, some of the palaces, grand houses are actually ugly as fuck.
The 'real' town itself is down to the right from the train station/bus. It is OK. Very unexceptional. Stupidly over-priced for Portugal, but there is an excellent Indian resto'. That is about the best I can offer for Sintra. It is sort of an 'Isle of Mann' without the worthwhile ferry day trip. Possibly worse than that actually. I really don't get what other people get from the place.
For those who have never been...
It is a fabulous collection of palaces and rich peoples homes built around a very lush bay. Most people who visit don't even see the 'real' town of Sintra. It is a fantasy park basically. You walk up the hill past all the art and stuff looking at the marvelous houses the rich built in their time. That is about it. And, some of the palaces, grand houses are actually ugly as fuck.
The 'real' town itself is down to the right from the train station/bus. It is OK. Very unexceptional. Stupidly over-priced for Portugal, but there is an excellent Indian resto'. That is about the best I can offer for Sintra. It is sort of an 'Isle of Mann' without the worthwhile ferry day trip. Possibly worse than that actually. I really don't get what other people get from the place.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yes it is, stan. i got to lisbon rather before you - back in the september of '07 in fact. and as for relationships, i've been in one the last ten years; when was the last time you had one last more than ten weeks?
I've been here long enough now to get some real insiders top tips.
So, for football and food lovers - top tip for a day in Belem...
Belem has already been mentioned here. It is good for a) a tram ride, b) the monastery, c) the custard tart shop, d) fab museums and galleries including the museum of contemporary art, (find the secret garden in the cultural centre - good quiet drinking/smoking spot with cool views), and e) a bloody good meal whilst enjoying the football.
Officially I am supposed to be a Sporting supporter, because the President has supported me and I am a man who's loyalty is easily bought. However, I think my heart is actually with Benfica. There is a Third team here. C.F. Os Belenenses - Wikipedia is the team of Belem. They have a very nice stadium just a Five minute walk from the tram stops. And, Restaurante Naranda Azul serves great traditional Portuguese food with a panoramic view across the stadium and pitch. No need to pay to enter the stadium, just pay for your meal and get what the locals who know enjoy here. Book a table on a match day. 25,000 or, so stadium. Obviously going to be chocker when entertaining the big guys (Sporting, Benfica and Porto), but surprisingly quiet for most games. You probably wouldn't even have to book a table in advance.
So, for football and food lovers - top tip for a day in Belem...
Belem has already been mentioned here. It is good for a) a tram ride, b) the monastery, c) the custard tart shop, d) fab museums and galleries including the museum of contemporary art, (find the secret garden in the cultural centre - good quiet drinking/smoking spot with cool views), and e) a bloody good meal whilst enjoying the football.
Officially I am supposed to be a Sporting supporter, because the President has supported me and I am a man who's loyalty is easily bought. However, I think my heart is actually with Benfica. There is a Third team here. C.F. Os Belenenses - Wikipedia is the team of Belem. They have a very nice stadium just a Five minute walk from the tram stops. And, Restaurante Naranda Azul serves great traditional Portuguese food with a panoramic view across the stadium and pitch. No need to pay to enter the stadium, just pay for your meal and get what the locals who know enjoy here. Book a table on a match day. 25,000 or, so stadium. Obviously going to be chocker when entertaining the big guys (Sporting, Benfica and Porto), but surprisingly quiet for most games. You probably wouldn't even have to book a table in advance.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh. giving the club money is a traditional part of supporting a football team. getting shirt or scarf and wearing it. finding out a bit about the team and how they play. maybe even going to a game now and again, especially as it's cheaper - and easier to get tickets - than it would be with premiership clubs here.
I think Belenese FC is my favoured shirt. They will be my local team even if Villa and Granada still come first. It is a great day out in any foreign city. If you like football you are always amongst others who understand, yet surrounded by cultural differences in the common ground. The resto is owned by the club. If you pay for a meal, you don't have to pay for a match ticket.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I was there a couple of weeks ago, though I didn't go out of the city as it was pouring down every day apart from the first. I know there are loads of boat tours though, of all lengths.
The old town is actually quite pleasant, even for someone like me who's not really very touristy like that (I didn't like Prague's old town for instance) and has loads of restaurants of all sorts. It's hilly, so you need to be reasonably mobile. The walk west along the coast from the Luís I bridge - which is very impressive, you should see that, you can walk across both the top and the bottom - was very relaxing when the weather was good.
I enjoyed the place - I felt it had an arty and modern feel to it but without Lisbon's more big city vibe. Even in the rain, I enjoyed the galleries, public parks, hanging around the riverside bars and just wandering generally. The only problem I had was that half of the buildings are under construction, the streets are narrow in the centre of town and nobody seems to give a shit about parking; they'll quite happily block off the whole of one side of the street with a van, or block traffic completely. This must really piss off the locals.
Oh and I don't advise trying the tripe. I thought I'd give it a shot, I'm not an offalphobe, but I wished I'd had something else.
Rail options could be a day trip to Aveiro, or even Coimbra. Aveiro has some really nice bars and eateries around the old market hall. The tourist thing to do is take a gondola type boat ride. It is small, but worth a day visit. I loved Coimbra. It is an old historic university city. Beautiful praças for enjoying a drink and people watching. Both are straightforward on a train from Porto's very ornate central station.
Depends how long you plan to stay. Porto itself is a very nice city for simply chilling on cafe terraces and wasting time. It is very much about cafe society - good for just lazing hours away. I would sooner be in Porto than Lisbon. More than enough to keep young adults happy for a week, or more. Very lively by night in the summer. Head up town to find the cooler bars and clubs. Most younger people are more than happy to speak English on social evenings.
Highly recommend a day trip to Coimbra.
If you rent a car, or don't mind buses, then Santa Maria da Feira is well worth a day trip also. Small mountain village surrounded by parkland with a fabulous castle. They have a large 'olde worlde' type festival in late summer.
Lifts and elevators.
I am actualluy going to give 30 minutes of my valuable time for free here. Introduce you to the subtle outskirts of Portugal Secreto - don't tell anyone I told you
Lisbon is built on Seven hills. Almost everywhere you walk you walk uphill, or downhill. However, there are elevators to save time and effort. Normally, you have to pay to use them.
Free elevator Nº1.
From the 24 hour car park in Baixa Chiado, Walk down the steps. Across the ground floor (at the level you are). Turn left. The lift will take you up Nine levels to exit at the front of the Art School at the top of Chiado. Free. Bargain.
Not sure why I am bothering. I was going to do Google maps stuff as well, but hey... no-one is going to be interested.
The Metro entrance from Baixa Chiado takes you to Chiado. Four escalators undercover - no rain. Free. Bargain.
On Rua do Carmo, walk just 20 Meters from BK at the bottom corner. There is a very discrete entrance to a tourist quiosque with a lift entrance behind it! Go up Three levels and exit at a terrace just below the convent remains. Free. Bargain.
I think I've already told you few of the locals pay for buses. That's just the way it used to be back in the day. I do pay when I use buses and trams, but the free uplifts are a fucking bargain. They are everywhere. I mention just a couple. It is not just about being lazy, it is about saving valuable time
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OK. Gave you Five minutes
I am actualluy going to give 30 minutes of my valuable time for free here. Introduce you to the subtle outskirts of Portugal Secreto - don't tell anyone I told you
Lisbon is built on Seven hills. Almost everywhere you walk you walk uphill, or downhill. However, there are elevators to save time and effort. Normally, you have to pay to use them.
Free elevator Nº1.
From the 24 hour car park in Baixa Chiado, Walk down the steps. Across the ground floor (at the level you are). Turn left. The lift will take you up Nine levels to exit at the front of the Art School at the top of Chiado. Free. Bargain.
Not sure why I am bothering. I was going to do Google maps stuff as well, but hey... no-one is going to be interested.
The Metro entrance from Baixa Chiado takes you to Chiado. Four escalators undercover - no rain. Free. Bargain.
On Rua do Carmo, walk just 20 Meters from BK at the bottom corner. There is a very discrete entrance to a tourist quiosque with a lift entrance behind it! Go up Three levels and exit at a terrace just below the convent remains. Free. Bargain.
I think I've already told you few of the locals pay for buses. That's just the way it used to be back in the day. I do pay when I use buses and trams, but the free uplifts are a fucking bargain. They are everywhere. I mention just a couple. It is not just about being lazy, it is about saving valuable time
---
OK. Gave you Five minutes
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Quiosque is the best rendering of kiosk I have ever seenLifts and elevators.
I am actualluy going to give 30 minutes of my valuable time for free here. [...]
On Rua do Carmo, walk just 20 Meters from BK at the bottom corner. There is a very discrete entrance to a tourist quiosque with a lift entrance behind it! Go up Three levels and exit at a terrace just below the convent remains. Free. Bargain.
I think I've already told you few of the locals pay for buses. That's just the way it used to be back in the day. I do pay when I use buses and trams, but the free uplifts are a fucking bargain. They are everywhere. I mention just a couple. It is not just about being lazy, it is about saving valuable time
---
OK. Gave you Five minutes
But you said you were going to give 30 mins but only gave 5. Poor.
Summer has happened. This is Praça do Sau Paulo - my favourite place to hangout and chill during the evening. It has been very quiet during Winter, but the warm weather is waking the place.
Unfortunately, someone has got control of an entire building along one side of the praça. He has closed all the cool bars and plans to turn the place into a posh hotel. It isn't going to have quite the same vibe as it did last Summer, but it will still be lively. I love the place for the mix of people you find there. Everyone from street bums to super models and media types to CEO's. Tourists, students, locals. It is a very cool place to just turn up with a drink and a smoke and share. A very, very social place! Everybody is welcome.
24/7 Summer is almost back.
Unfortunately, someone has got control of an entire building along one side of the praça. He has closed all the cool bars and plans to turn the place into a posh hotel. It isn't going to have quite the same vibe as it did last Summer, but it will still be lively. I love the place for the mix of people you find there. Everyone from street bums to super models and media types to CEO's. Tourists, students, locals. It is a very cool place to just turn up with a drink and a smoke and share. A very, very social place! Everybody is welcome.
24/7 Summer is almost back.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Dia de Liberdade today , the annual holiday celebrating the Carnation Revolution in !974 that began the process of introducing democracy.
Yep. I got caught out. All the art shops were closed.
For those who don't know...
The Carnation Revolution is so named, because the story goes that when the last shot was fired from the last gun, a florist stuck a red carnation in the barrel of the gun. That is the story, and it has since been adopted by other countries - a red carnation is not just a symbol of unrequited love, it also represents the fall of a dominating monarchy in some countries. Which is a little confusing. Portugal had the revolution. Won. And, yet today under the control of a few rich business families rather than a single monarchy they are the lowest paid people of Western Europe. They do however, enjoy much more freedom. You make your choices and take your chances.
Summer has arrived. Possibly a few more rainy days to get through, but this is definitely Summer. My favourite praça now looks like this:
Lisbon is filling up with the money grabbers. The 20 year old Fords and VW's have been replaced by Mercedes and Ferraris'. New businesses will open for a few months, then vanish.
I met an American women (originally from Goa) earlier today. She is here to take advantage of the 'Golden Visa'. She wants to buy Three apartments. One to live in. One to rent long term. One to stick on AirBnB.
I am very glad I made my contacts last year. The winter was very 'cool' and financially stable. Extremely good support from local people who appreciated what I was trying to do. Summer is going to be a different ball game. My minimum price for a sketch from now on is €200.
This is Lisbon today.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
According to my Portuguese mates there was little or no shooting , the carnation thing came from the almost spontaneous appearance of thousands of people on the street supporting the military coup by the MFA. Carnations were in season, they are very common, and putting them down the guns was saying the people are with the MFA.They said the only shots fired were by the Police(who were pro Caetano) at one station who the army stormed and arrested.
Ah! OK. Carnation revolution just because it was carnation season? Probably fuschia season also, and daffodil season, and...
The carnation as a symbol and name represents a peaceful revolution. The story of a florist sticking a flower down the barrel of a gun as a sign of 'no more' guns, or 'we are not afraid of your guns' has been adopted by other countries.
Thanks for correcting
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Been reading too much Robert Fisk.
Speak to the people who were there.Ah! OK. Carnation revolution just because it was carnation season? Probably fuschia season also, and daffodil season, and...
The carnation as a symbol and name represents a peaceful revolution. The story of a florist sticking a flower down the barrel of a gun as a sign of 'no more' guns, or 'we are not afraid of your guns' has been adopted by other countries.
Thanks for correcting
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
eye witness account I. The First Week
You should have read that before posting a link...
"I feel helpless and decide to leave. Later we learnt that a PIDE had fired into th'e crowd from a window, killing 5 and wounding 50."
"We remembered Prague 1968, when people had placed flowers in the gun barrels of tanks, in gentle irony. But now people were giving carnations to the
soldiers, like one gives to one's loved one on the night of Santo Ant6nio,
the patron saint of Lisbon."
Rossio is where the florist quiosques were (and still are). The version of the story I received first hand from a native in his 70's was that a florist placed a carnation in a soldiers gun barrel, then everyone started to hand out red carnations from the florists. Red (traditionally being a colour representing Socialism, and a carnation, or rose the symbol). This all makes perfect sense to me, especially after reading your very useful link.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Good. Keep talking to your natives.
Trams.
Many tourists ask me what the deal is with the trams. So, just for U75...
There are tourist trams (mostly red), and municipal trams (yellow, operated by a company called Carris). I have no idea how much the guided tours cost on the tourist trams. Bus tours are about €40, so I guess a day ticket for a guided tram tour is about the same.
Municipal trams...
Carris operate almost all of the city public transport. You can buy a travelcard from machines in any bus, or metro station. €0.50 Cents deposit. €1.45 minimum for a single journey. That is a journey on a bus, tram, or some of the elevators (not the main tourist attraction elevator). If all you want to do is take a single trip, this is the cheapest way to do it. If you pay on the spot for a tram, or elevator it will be almost Twice the cost.
I recommend a ride from start to finish on a number 25, 28, or 15. 28 goes through the historic centre to terminate (or, start) at Estrella by the Basillica and park. 25 does similar, but sticks to a down town route until it passes Sao Paulo. 15 takes you all the way out to Belem.
A 24 hour day pass cost €6 and can be bought from many tourist outlets. 24 hour, unlimited buses, metro, elevators and trams. Good value if you want to spend a day just trolleying around town, and still save time for your bus back to the airport next morning.
If you go for municipal tram rides bare in mind it is public transport here. For your own comfort and to help regular commuters avoid peak times. You won't get a seat, and locals will be well pissed off. Take a trip from Porto de Sol to Estrella on a number 28 at about 11AM is my suggestion.
Many tourists ask me what the deal is with the trams. So, just for U75...
There are tourist trams (mostly red), and municipal trams (yellow, operated by a company called Carris). I have no idea how much the guided tours cost on the tourist trams. Bus tours are about €40, so I guess a day ticket for a guided tram tour is about the same.
Municipal trams...
Carris operate almost all of the city public transport. You can buy a travelcard from machines in any bus, or metro station. €0.50 Cents deposit. €1.45 minimum for a single journey. That is a journey on a bus, tram, or some of the elevators (not the main tourist attraction elevator). If all you want to do is take a single trip, this is the cheapest way to do it. If you pay on the spot for a tram, or elevator it will be almost Twice the cost.
I recommend a ride from start to finish on a number 25, 28, or 15. 28 goes through the historic centre to terminate (or, start) at Estrella by the Basillica and park. 25 does similar, but sticks to a down town route until it passes Sao Paulo. 15 takes you all the way out to Belem.
A 24 hour day pass cost €6 and can be bought from many tourist outlets. 24 hour, unlimited buses, metro, elevators and trams. Good value if you want to spend a day just trolleying around town, and still save time for your bus back to the airport next morning.
If you go for municipal tram rides bare in mind it is public transport here. For your own comfort and to help regular commuters avoid peak times. You won't get a seat, and locals will be well pissed off. Take a trip from Porto de Sol to Estrella on a number 28 at about 11AM is my suggestion.
I'm back out in the suburbs.
Sold out to a well known gourmet burger chain, so next week I am working in Alameda just 5 stops on the metro from the centre of town. I like it. Established in the 1930'3 and 40's the architecture has a distinct Art Nouveau flavour. There is also lots of BIG OPEN green spaces - something lacking from Lisbon central. The city was rush designed on a rebuild programme after the big earthquake by someone who should have known better. The lack of open space, or anywhere to escape the noise is a big issue for me in Lisbon. You probably wouldn't notice as a visitor, but if you live here...
I shall be socialising with the locals next week and reporting back with tips on fun nights away from the tourist centre of Lisbon. Alameda looks to be a very interesting place to get better value holiday accommodation also. Buses and Metro run into the early hours.
Sold out to a well known gourmet burger chain, so next week I am working in Alameda just 5 stops on the metro from the centre of town. I like it. Established in the 1930'3 and 40's the architecture has a distinct Art Nouveau flavour. There is also lots of BIG OPEN green spaces - something lacking from Lisbon central. The city was rush designed on a rebuild programme after the big earthquake by someone who should have known better. The lack of open space, or anywhere to escape the noise is a big issue for me in Lisbon. You probably wouldn't notice as a visitor, but if you live here...
I shall be socialising with the locals next week and reporting back with tips on fun nights away from the tourist centre of Lisbon. Alameda looks to be a very interesting place to get better value holiday accommodation also. Buses and Metro run into the early hours.
shambler
Well-Known Member
I would recommend a train to Matisinhos or similar for a surfing lesson. Great fun.
There are probably even better beaches for it, but the teacher there was fantastic and the fish restaurants by the harbour were brill.
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Words coming...
A pic for atmospherics rather than technical fab. Phone experimentation.
A pic for atmospherics rather than technical fab. Phone experimentation.
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This is Sao Antonio. A 30 Day festa through June. It is beautiful. Specifically, this is one of my favourite corners of Lisbon, but the fiesta is a national event. Main weekend has just passed
This barrio is special. Airbnb and hostels are encroaching, but it remains very real. Families who have been here for generations. Immigrants from old colonies and Brazil. New immigrants from all over. It is a fabulous little barrio where all are welcome. Especially for Sao Antoni. It is very gentle. Few people are out to get wasted. Drift from corner to corner, praca to praca. Take a drink. Have a dance to Angolan, Latin, or Senegalese beats. Eat grilled fish from the street BBQ' s. Then drift on to meet new people. Enjoy traditional Portuguese rhyhms. Meander and mingle. This is heaven to my mind. All ages. All backgrounds. Fun. Beautiful fun.
Get here for June. It is special.
This barrio is special. Airbnb and hostels are encroaching, but it remains very real. Families who have been here for generations. Immigrants from old colonies and Brazil. New immigrants from all over. It is a fabulous little barrio where all are welcome. Especially for Sao Antoni. It is very gentle. Few people are out to get wasted. Drift from corner to corner, praca to praca. Take a drink. Have a dance to Angolan, Latin, or Senegalese beats. Eat grilled fish from the street BBQ' s. Then drift on to meet new people. Enjoy traditional Portuguese rhyhms. Meander and mingle. This is heaven to my mind. All ages. All backgrounds. Fun. Beautiful fun.
Get here for June. It is special.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
sounds grand: but brazil was an auld colony. the portuguese court went there to sit out the napoleonic wars.
davesgcr
Reading books
My daughter was there last week , saw the Fiesta and had a superb week , with glorious weather. Attended big screen football , and complimented on how enjoyable and non riotous the attendees were. She brought back some epic food.
