ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
'Positive reinforcement' seems a bit ambiguous. What does it mean in practice? Voting them out? Doesn't that just take us back to square one with the same system as now?
Labour leadership
- Thread starter oryx
- Start date
'Positive reinforcement' seems a bit ambiguous. What does it mean in practice? Voting them out? Doesn't that just take us back to square one with the same system as now?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Lawyers don't determine the law, legislators do. Lawyers merely administrate and interpret.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It means "carrot and stick". The plain and evident fact that if they misbehave, they'll be punished. if they apply their guidance even-handedly, they won't be punished.
That's not really what you are proposing, to be frank.
It's simply a solution to how to dilute the opinions of people who disagree with you.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
So you'd replace elected representatives with administrators chosen by lot, who would operate according to the advice of clerks, who would act as elected representatives?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Why "go down" at all?
The "Blairite nobs" (a kind name for the treacherous, self-serving vermin) have shown themselves for what they are in the same way Blair did when he ignored 2 million marchers against the Iraq war. The likes of Benn and Cooper etc have provided those who desire the power to de-select with some killer ammunition for doing so, and I suspect that Corbyn will remain leader long enough to see the re-democratisation of constituency parties come to fruition.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
I think he should do the exact opposite; have no whipped votes at all and remove those tools by which the centre dictates to the local parties.
The Chief Whip has shown her unreliability, he doesn't have the strength in the PLP to kick off with and if this vote proves anything, it is that there is no issue that that the faction will not seek to embarrass him over. If he lets them vote with what they claim is their conscience, they will not be able to resist voting with the government (indeed they don't have anyone else to vote with) which will make getting rid of them locally that much easier; plus he can keep chirping on about the new politics, localization and the importance of honestly representing constituents.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Because, of course, you know better than me,what I'm proposing.
No, that's what you assume it is, because your arrogance permits no other explanation.
Anyway, whichever view you take on the political spectrum, that was a fantastic speech from Benn - one of the greatest that I have ever seen and I've already watched it several times already today.
I'm not necessarily persuaded. It is fundamentally a speech for some kind of total war and that is, obviously, a very big deal and the idea that air strikes in addition to the US, France, Jordan, the UAE etc might make a material difference is not convincing at all.
But what it does do is frame the situation in a manner that has not been commonly understood. My opinion is that the threat of ISIS has mainly been understood through the lazy and gratuitous viewing of their videos showing all the things that they want us to see but Benn has got to the heart of the matter now.
They hold us in contempt - that was his argument.
They are fascists - that was his argument.
We stand up to fascists who hold us in contempt - that was his argument.
I'm not necessarily persuaded. It is fundamentally a speech for some kind of total war and that is, obviously, a very big deal and the idea that air strikes in addition to the US, France, Jordan, the UAE etc might make a material difference is not convincing at all.
But what it does do is frame the situation in a manner that has not been commonly understood. My opinion is that the threat of ISIS has mainly been understood through the lazy and gratuitous viewing of their videos showing all the things that they want us to see but Benn has got to the heart of the matter now.
They hold us in contempt - that was his argument.
They are fascists - that was his argument.
We stand up to fascists who hold us in contempt - that was his argument.
Because, of course, you know better than me,what I'm proposing.
No, that's what you assume it is, because your arrogance permits no other explanation.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodies?
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Repeating a phrase over and over as a rhetorical device to woo those who are easily-swayed - that was his argument.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
there is no need to parade your ignorance.
from the remainder of the post it seems you are very easily persuaded
is it?
your opinion is as ever facile and ill-formed.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
It was a great speech, the sad thing is that (as you recognize) it was nothing to do with whether or not what was being voted on was sensible. It was probably similar to the Athenians hearing Demosthenes argue brilliantly, successfully and idiotically for war with Alexander.
Because, of course, you know better than me,what I'm proposing.
No, that's what you assume it is, because your arrogance permits no other explanation.
Anyway, shall we circle back to the stare decisis point - I assume you know what it means when proposing basic changes to English and Welsh public law...?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it will be over when there is a 'banned' next to diamond's name. until that point occasional contretemps are inevitable.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
yes everyone was just whacking off to beheading videos and hadn't spotted the paralels with fascism. Thank god killary benn stepped up to inform us all of the blindingly obvious.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
'they are fascists' has for many years generally meant 'we don't like them'.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
like die-a-monde.
If Corby has the fortitude to stick with it (and many wouldn't) then good luck to him.
my guess is that the combination of attacks from contemptible right wing Labour shites and the equally grotesque free market media creatures will ultimately overwhelm both him and the project to establish Labour as a serious anti capitalist organisation.
i recognise that this is both distressing and pessimistic, if not defeatist. But given Labour's history, it is surely realistic.
my guess is that the combination of attacks from contemptible right wing Labour shites and the equally grotesque free market media creatures will ultimately overwhelm both him and the project to establish Labour as a serious anti capitalist organisation.
i recognise that this is both distressing and pessimistic, if not defeatist. But given Labour's history, it is surely realistic.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
what has he accomplished then?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yes, for one thing there's only one 'l' in hilary
He has been a significant trade union official and a Labour MP of some standing.
A damn sight more than I guess anyone on these boards have accomplished.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
you had a wood on during his speech and so did he
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
no, what has he accomplished, not what posts has he held.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
he's been shaking hands with the unemployed watching that speech again today i expect.
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