Labour leadership

[SpookyFrank]

Or the central tenet of Christianity would be: Thou shalt behave in all things as befits the end of a bell.

 

[YouSir]

Or the central tenet of Christianity would be: Thou shalt behave in all things as befits the end of a bell.

 

[treelover]

Did anyone submit a question to Corbyn for PMQs? I'd be interested to hear what the follow-up is - the more I think about it, the better an Idea this looks like to me - if he plays it right.

There is definitely something of the Harry Perkins about Corbyn,

 

[magneze]

It is a question of authenticity/methodology - pretending that you are being democratic by executively selecting questions from a raft of your supporters doesn't logically work unless you can demonstrate the way you have gone about it.

Bollocks

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Did anyone submit a question to Corbyn for PMQs? I'd be interested to hear what the follow-up is - the more I think about it, the better an Idea this looks like to me - if he plays it right.

I like the idea, but listening a bit to today's exchanges, the weaknesses of it were also apparent. Cameron did get a soft ride with the absence of specific follow-up questions that disputed Cameron's claims or doubted his explanations.

Dunno how important pmqs are nowadays really, but I'd have thought that at some point Corbyn will have to go into battle at them, to express disgust and anger at the responses to his questions. But then I'm in a bit of a minority in that I used to quite like the spectacle of 'yah-boo' politics in the commons.

 

[redsquirrel]

Re PMQs, no-one other than politics jocks gives a shit about the old format - by canvassing questions from the public, Corbyn will bring much more attention to it - they'll actually have some ownership of the questions. I presume he'll be emailing everyone who submitted a question back with the responses (and presumably some criticisms of the responses). It's a great way of engaging.

Yeah, according to pricks like White and co Hauge always "beat" Blair but who outside them gave a fuck.

 

[kabbes]

Re PMQs, no-one other than politics jocks gives a shit about the old format - by canvassing questions from the public, Corbyn will bring much more attention to it - they'll actually have some ownership of the questions. I presume he'll be emailing everyone who submitted a question back with the responses (and presumably some criticisms of the responses). It's a great way of engaging.

Yeah, this is exactly right. I got this email tonight:

***

Dear kabbes — it's so brilliant to be part of this extraordinary, democratic movement with you.

Since Saturday evening, I have received an incredible 40,192 questions from people across our country to ask David Cameron at PMQs.

I put six of these to David Cameron this afternoon in Parliament.

WATCH: I put your questions to David Cameron at PMQs
READ: Here are the questions that I asked

I am so proud to have had the chance to stand up and put the experiences and questions of ordinary people directly to David Cameron. They need to be heard. We have shown there is a way to bring the people right into the heart of Westminster.

I promise that I am going to keep doing politics differently; and I hope that you will continue on this journey with me.

Thanks,

Jeremy Corbyn


Join us, Kabbes

Thousands of people are joining the Labour Party to support Jeremy Corbyn and Tom Watson. If you believe in Labour values of fairness, justice and social equality then join us now. Every new member makes our movement stronger and it takes just two minutes to join.

Become a member.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's amazing the disconnect between that ^^ and the crap emerging from every media outlet. On World Service today - normally the more sensible branch of the BBC - a reporter described Corbyn as the 'most left-wing Labour leader in 100 years', and went on to detail how Corbyn faced the task of persuading the British people to become more left-wing like him.

 

[eoin_k]

When was this world service. I'd like to have a listen. It would be wrong to complain about something I haven't heard.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

When was this world service. I'd like to have a listen. It would be wrong to complain about something I haven't heard.

It was this evening around 6.30. I was only half-listening. It was just before a section on US politics, if that helps.

 

[treelover]

Yeah, this is exactly right. I got this email tonight:

***

Dear kabbes — it's so brilliant to be part of this extraordinary, democratic movement with you.

Since Saturday evening, I have received an incredible 40,192 questions from people across our country to ask David Cameron at PMQs.

I put six of these to David Cameron this afternoon in Parliament.

WATCH: I put your questions to David Cameron at PMQs
READ: Here are the questions that I asked

I am so proud to have had the chance to stand up and put the experiences and questions of ordinary people directly to David Cameron. They need to be heard. We have shown there is a way to bring the people right into the heart of Westminster.

I promise that I am going to keep doing politics differently; and I hope that you will continue on this journey with me.

Thanks,

Jeremy Corbyn


Join us, Kabbes

Thousands of people are joining the Labour Party to support Jeremy Corbyn and Tom Watson. If you believe in Labour values of fairness, justice and social equality then join us now. Every new member makes our movement stronger and it takes just two minutes to join.

Become a member.

So did I!

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I can't face trawling this thread for quotes, but I think a few people on here (as well as in the media) have not quite grasped what JC's approach to policy is.

He's made it clear that he's not coming in with "this is what I think / say - therefore this is now party policy", he's said he is going to make the party membership more involved with policy making.

To be fair, I think this might be a bit of a strange concept to some of the blairite MPs as well...

 

[agricola]

It's amazing the disconnect between that ^^ and the crap emerging from every media outlet. On World Service today - normally the more sensible branch of the BBC - a reporter described Corbyn as the 'most left-wing Labour leader in 100 years', and went on to detail how Corbyn faced the task of persuading the British people to become more left-wing like him.

This is the same news organization that said people were describing the Germanwings crash as "the darkest day in Germany's history", though - you shouldn't expect that much from them.

 

[Lord Camomile]

I like the idea, but listening a bit to today's exchanges, the weaknesses of it were also apparent. Cameron did get a soft ride with the absence of specific follow-up questions that disputed Cameron's claims or doubted his explanations.

Dunno how important pmqs are nowadays really, but I'd have thought that at some point Corbyn will have to go into battle at them, to express disgust and anger at the responses to his questions. But then I'm in a bit of a minority in that I used to quite like the spectacle of 'yah-boo' politics in the commons.

The thing is, it doesn't have to devolve into yah-boo politics, there could just be a measured "actually Dave, yer wrong there". Except, of course, not in the Commons.

 

[RedDragon]

Sadly It's the 'office' which will hobble him.

 

[teuchter]

Doing the "Jimmy from Norwich wrote in to ask" performance just seems unecessary to me. Ask people to email with their questions, look at them, decide which are the themes you want to concentrate on, formulate your questions and ask them in your own words. That's all that's really happening anyway - attaching the question to a real-but-may-as-well-be-fictional person is just for show. The problem I can see with it is that it gives the impression he's submitting anecdotal evidence - something which the tories are rightly frequently attacked for on here. Pretty sure one of today's was basically that - someone writes in to say they work for an organisation where there are job cuts due to local authority funding cuts. That's anecdotal and weak. The same point could be made much more strongly by saying "nationwide these organisations are cutting X percent of their staff due to funding cuts of Y amount to local authorities". Asking Cameron a question based on one person's particular circumstances just invites him to reply with anecdotes of his own.

 

[miktheword]

I can't face trawling this thread for quotes, but I think a few people on here (as well as in the media) have not quite grasped what JC's approach to policy is.

He's made it clear that he's not coming in with "this is what I think / say - therefore this is now party policy", he's said he is going to make the party membership more involved with policy making.

To be fair, I think this might be a bit of a strange concept to some of the blairite MPs as well...

agreed, and he can vary his approach to keep them guessing..it's one tactic, that's all..mirroring the broader democratic 'bottom up..members will determine policy' point you make about Corbyn's approach, it may come eventually to some in Labour, how easy it was for JC to communicate with ordinary people, in contrast to hearing post election, that their 'machine' couldn't even get in touch with ONE minimum wage worker, when they wanted to.

 

[equationgirl]

Yeah, this is exactly right. I got this email tonight:

***

Dear kabbes — it's so brilliant to be part of this extraordinary, democratic movement with you.

Since Saturday evening, I have received an incredible 40,192 questions from people across our country to ask David Cameron at PMQs.

I put six of these to David Cameron this afternoon in Parliament.

WATCH: I put your questions to David Cameron at PMQs
READ: Here are the questions that I asked

I am so proud to have had the chance to stand up and put the experiences and questions of ordinary people directly to David Cameron. They need to be heard. We have shown there is a way to bring the people right into the heart of Westminster.

I promise that I am going to keep doing politics differently; and I hope that you will continue on this journey with me.

Thanks,

Jeremy Corbyn


Join us, Kabbes

Thousands of people are joining the Labour Party to support Jeremy Corbyn and Tom Watson. If you believe in Labour values of fairness, justice and social equality then join us now. Every new member makes our movement stronger and it takes just two minutes to join.

Become a member.

I got it too. I'm very interested to know how they got my email address seeing as I never gave it to them.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

To me what's really come out of these last few days is the utter contempt that virtually the entire political and media class have for democracy. Of course this has been obvious for years but its really on display at the moment.

The idea that corbyn is going to have a bottom up approach to policy within the party he leads is completely alien to them. All this anthem shit is very telling too. Didn't people who fought in the battle of Britain fight for freedom? Freedom to, I dunno, not sing a fucking song if you don't want to?

 

[eoin_k]

... Freedom to, I dunno, not sing a fucking song if you don't want to?

It is more Orwellian than that. We are only free to elect politicians who gladly express our fealty to a monarch.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Doing the "Jimmy from Norwich wrote in to ask" performance just seems unecessary to me. Ask people to email with their questions, look at them, decide which are the themes you want to concentrate on, formulate your questions and ask them in your own words. That's all that's really happening anyway - attaching the question to a real-but-may-as-well-be-fictional person is just for show. The problem I can see with it is that it gives the impression he's submitting anecdotal evidence - something which the tories are rightly frequently attacked for on here. Pretty sure one of today's was basically that - someone writes in to say they work for an organisation where there are job cuts due to local authority funding cuts. That's anecdotal and weak. The same point could be made much more strongly by saying "nationwide these organisations are cutting X percent of their staff due to funding cuts of Y amount to local authorities". Asking Cameron a question based on one person's particular circumstances just invites him to reply with anecdotes of his own.

I don't think he's going to do 'Jimmy from Norwich' every week tbh. Hopefully he will still listen to people's input on what sort of questions he should be asking, but in the long run he'll want to set his own agenda as well.

But I agree that sometimes big numbers wil be more useful than anecdotes. Talking about the tax credit cut for example, and how many people will be worse off and by how much money. Corbyn did will to quote from the IFS though, when calling bullshit on Hameron's 'living wage' nonsense.

 

[Sprocket.]

This is the same news organization that said people were describing the Germanwings crash as "the darkest day in Germany's history", though - you shouldn't expect that much from them.

And 'Josef Fritzl, the most infamous Austrian monster.'

 

[Hocus Eye.]

The media are still looking for things to criticise Corbyn for. It seems he had an affair with Dianne Abbot in the 70s at a time when he was separating from his wife, so nothing really bad there, it was all open. Abbot looked surpisingly good in the picture.

One 'journalist' upbraids him for wearing a beige suit in PMQs along with a yellow brown tie saying it doesn't go. Well it does go quite well and in any case it wasn't a suit but a jacket with black trousers - sloppy journalism.

They are reporting that he has said in a tv interview that he will not campaign to get out of the EU, so that fox has been shot.

He also did not think the party would not want to leave NATO, thus avoiding another prepared mantrap and showed him deferring to the views of party members rather than being a one-man-band. He has given himself plenty of wriggle room now.

 

[Belushi]

Abbot looked surpisingly good in the picture.

How did Corbyn look?

 

[andysays]

The media are still looking for things to criticise Corbyn for. It seems he had an affair with Dianne Abbot in the 70s at a time when he was separating from his wife, so nothing really bad there, it was all open. Abbot looked surpisingly good in the picture.

One 'journalist' upbraids him for wearing a beige suit in PMQs along with a yellow brown tie saying it doesn't go. Well it does go quite well and in any case it wasn't a suit but a jacket with black trousers - sloppy journalism.

They are reporting that he has said in a tv interview that he will not campaign to get out of the EU, so that fox has been shot.

He also did not think the party would not want to leave NATO, thus avoiding another prepared mantrap and showed him deferring to the views of party members rather than being a one-man-band. He has given himself plenty of wriggle room now.

The media will always be looking for things to criticise Corbyn for, for as long as he's Labour leader.

I don't think they've come up with anything so far which will really hurt him among those who already support him, or even those whose support he's realistically hoping to win. The fact that they're paying so much attention to what he's wearing suggests they haven't got much of any real substance - normally it's women who get comments and criticism for what they wear or what they look like, a tendency your post nicely parodys (it was a parody, right?)

 

[killer b]

Latest Snow interview is worth watching. Seems pretty wry over the clusterfuck of the last few days.

 

[chandlerp]

So far, given the nature of the press attacks, I think he's doing rather well.

 

[brogdale]

So far, given the nature of the press attacks, I think he's doing rather well.

Yes, but given that everything that we've seen thus far has been superficial 'froth'. If Corbyn's leadership is to have any meaning for Labourism he, and his supporters, will have to capture the policy-making machinery and effect change to the party's programme.

 

[killer b]

Yeah, for all the talk of mandate and new members, how are these going to utilised to push through change? Most of the new members are (if my own acquaintance is typical) new to the world of party politics, and it's only going to take a couple of branch meetings before they get fucked off with it all and drop out.

I'm sure there's ways of keeping them enthused and involved, but I've not seen any evidence of them being used yet. Suppose they've been busy the last few days, mind (Althought there's apparently some kind of north-west activist event on Saturday - suppose that might be the start of it)

 

[billy_bob]

If Corbyn's leadership is to have any meaning for Labourism he, and his supporters, will have to capture the policy-making machinery and effect change to the party's programme.

That's a bit of a truism: I can't imagine anyone - supporter, detractor or interested bystander - would argue otherwise.

And it's only Day 5 of this brave new world - any attempt to look like he'd aready done anything significant about 'capturing the policy-making machinery' at such an early stage would look like showboating and I think would rightly engender suspicion.