Knife crime, what's to be done?

[nightowl]

The latest teenage murderer in London appears to have been involved in an argument over a sodding teddy bear.

Elianne Andam: Teenager found guilty of murdering 15-year-old girl

A jury rejects Hassan Sentamu's defence of diminished responsibility over Elianne Andam's stabbing.

www.bbc.com

In the 25 years I've lived in London it's the same every time - candlelit vigils, emotional mothers making 'don't let this happen to anyone else's child' appeals, media reports on well-meaning community intervention programmes... and yet it happens again and again and again.
So what's the answer? Eradicating poverty in deprived communities is a long-term one but I doubt it's ever going to truly happen. Stop and search obviously pisses off whole communities. I'm very far from right-wing but sometimes think knife-carrying gang members should immediately be taken out of society for a period.

 

[Sue]

The latest teenage murderer in London appears to have been involved in an argument over a sodding teddy bear.

Elianne Andam: Teenager found guilty of murdering 15-year-old girl

A jury rejects Hassan Sentamu's defence of diminished responsibility over Elianne Andam's stabbing.

www.bbc.com

I don't think it's right to distil it down to being over a teddy bear. According to that article:

'The teenager had left home carrying a knife after feeling "disrespected" by the group of girls the day before, who had thrown water at him because they did not like the way he had treated their friend, his ex-girlfriend.'

 

[emanymton]

I don't think it's right to distil it down to being over a teddy bear. According to that article:

'The teenager had left home carrying a knife after feeling "disrespected" by the group of girls the day before, who had thrown water at him because they did not like the way he had treated their friend, his ex-girlfriend.'

Ah so good old misogyny then.

 

[Eric Jarvis]

An awful lot of it boils down to there being practically zero mental health support for thousands of kids suffering from PTSD.

 

[newme]

previously been cautioned for taking a knife to school, and, while awaiting trial for Elianne's murder, threatened to "do it again", the court heard.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

So what's the answer? Eradicating poverty in deprived communities is a long-term one but I doubt it's ever going to truly happen.

Yes, of course. And more than that communities need to empower themselves to demand better resources, faciltiies and social spaces for all sections of the community.

Stop and search obviously pisses off whole communities. I'm very far from right-wing but sometimes think knife-carrying gang members should immediately be taken out of society for a period.

Yes. The reality is that some are 'in the game' through choice and not just material circumstances. They do need to be taken out of society, but more than that they need taking on by the wider community for the benefit of the wider community.

 

[nightowl]

Proof that some people are just scum who cannot be rehabilitated. They should not be walking the streets.

Prison recall for Jake Fahri after 'shameless' Jimmy Mizen murder boast

Jake Fahri, who served 14 years in jail for murdering schoolboy Jimmy Mizen, breached licence conditions.

www.bbc.com

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Proof that some people are just scum who cannot be rehabilitated. They should not be walking the streets.

Prison recall for Jake Fahri after 'shameless' Jimmy Mizen murder boast

Jake Fahri, who served 14 years in jail for murdering schoolboy Jimmy Mizen, breached licence conditions.

www.bbc.com

parole statements said Fahri had "done all the programmes" but that "doesn't seem to have made a blind bit of difference".

So why did they let him out?

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Proof that some people are just scum who cannot be rehabilitated. They should not be walking the streets.

Prison recall for Jake Fahri after 'shameless' Jimmy Mizen murder boast

Jake Fahri, who served 14 years in jail for murdering schoolboy Jimmy Mizen, breached licence conditions.

www.bbc.com

Or is it just proof that our rehabilitation services are not up to scratch?

The answer is probably a mixture of both but I don't think anyone here would argue that our system is great, or even good.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

So why did they let him out?

Was he let early?

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Actually reading about it I'm guessing that guy was in a bit of a rock and a hard place.

If he was a drill rapper by profession I'm not sure what his next single would be if not braggadochio about his crimes.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Was he let early?

You can't be let out early from a life sentence. What you get is a minimum term before you can be considered for parole. Parole should only be granted if the parole board are certain you will no longer be a danger to the public, the parole board's own statements show that was very, very far from the case with this person.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Actually reading about it I'm guessing that guy was in a bit of a rock and a hard place.

If he was a drill rapper by profession I'm not sure what his next single would be if not braggadochio about his crimes.

His profession, fucking give over!

If is profession was hitman would he also be between a rock and a hard place?

 

[petee]

Or is it just proof that our rehabilitation services are not up to scratch?

i think this is idealistic, as if everyone should be able to be rehabilitated.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

His profession, fucking give over!

If is profession was hitman would he also be between a rock and a hard place?

I'm not saying it was right but I am saying it's not a surprise.

And if you are an ex offender looking to make money what are your options?

You are going to go back to what you did before unless you have a pathway out.

Was going back to being an artist in a genre linked with crime a good idea? Ethically no but financially yeah probably.

 

[nightowl]

Was he let early?

He got out after 14 years which is a bit of a joke in itself.

 

[toblerone3]

What is an acceptable murder rate? Should we aim to become more like Sweden or New Zealand? List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I'm not saying it was right but I am saying it's not a surprise.

And if you are an ex offender looking to make money what are your options?

You are going to go back to what you did before unless you have a pathway out.

Was going back to being an artist in a genre linked with crime a good idea? Ethically no but financially yeah probably.

They shouldn't be letting you out if you can't go about life without doing what you did when you offended, that's the whole point of it.

 

[toblerone3]

Or would should we be aiming to become more like Spain Ireland or Italy

 

[toblerone3]

Or like Japan and Singapore

 

[Ax^]

new government policy anyone caught with a knife will be stabbed with said weapon by the arrest police officer with a doctor present to advise knife placement...

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Or like Japan and Singapore

View attachment 459921

All those countries have the death penalty for murder. Maybe Spymaster is right after all...

 

[nightowl]

We need harsher, earlier penalties. You read about too many convicted knife criminals already having 'dealings' with the police. Don't wait until they stick that knife in someone because the first time they carry one there is clearly the intention to do so. Get them off the streets there and then.

 

[Spymaster]

Massive mandatory sentences.

5 years for a first offence of possession, 10 years for using one. And none of this parole bollocks.

Same with illegally held firearms.

 

[Flavour]

harsher sentences won't work.

this has to start in school. this has to start in communities. this has to start with antiracism. the perpetrators almost always come from marginalized families, communities. no social safety nets or support.

 

[Spymaster]

harsher sentences won't work.

I disagree. It hasn't been tried.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

We need harsher, earlier penalties. You read about too many convicted knife criminals already having 'dealings' with the police. Don't wait until they stick that knife in someone because the first time they carry one there is clearly the intention to do so. Get them off the streets there and then.

Having worked in a PRU I would say that if that means prison I don't think that's a great choice.

Certainly getting them out of the situation would be good but I think it needs to be something constructive.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Having worked in a PRU I would say that if that means prison I don't think that's a great choice.

Certainly getting them out of the situation would be good but I think it needs to be something constructive.

Such as?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

If he was a drill rapper by profession I'm not sure what his next single would be if not braggadochio about his crimes.

He could have recorded one about the gullability of liberals?

 

[nightowl]

It's harsh to think that someone is a lost cause when they're in their teens but the harsh reality is that some individuals probably already are. They're scumbags as kids and they'll continue being scumbags until the day they die.