I'd watched some before but found it quite difficult to follow the detail, and Depp's speech is so slow. I watched the swoop story linked to and I watched the cross-examination by his lawyer, who was impressive, he had a powerful team. Heard lies consistently throughout and accuses everyone else - the other witnesses - of lying when her lies are exposed. She was entirely uncredible. The recordings were very disturbing, more disturbing was that she responded to recordings of occasions when Depp tried to leave the argument by accusing him of going to begin the drug cycle all over again - that came over as gaslighting, On the basis of the evidence available at the trial, from what I've seen so far, I don't see how the jury could've come to any other conclusion.
Johnny Depp Libel Case
- Thread starter savoloysam
- Start date
I'd watched some before but found it quite difficult to follow the detail, and Depp's speech is so slow. I watched the swoop story linked to and I watched the cross-examination by his lawyer, who was impressive, he had a powerful team. Heard lies consistently throughout and accuses everyone else - the other witnesses - of lying when her lies are exposed. She was entirely uncredible. The recordings were very disturbing, more disturbing was that she responded to recordings of occasions when Depp tried to leave the argument by accusing him of going to begin the drug cycle all over again - that came over as gaslighting, On the basis of the evidence available at the trial, from what I've seen so far, I don't see how the jury could've come to any other conclusion.
Yeh spring-peeper, remove that eh? It just makes it harder to judge and argue from the evidence when you stick misogynistic shit like that up.
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
Yep, particularly jarring given both the thoughtful analysis that was going on at the time and the previous conversations about how women in general are vilified in these cases, and even if Heard was predominately the one at fault would it still justify the sheer amount of misogynistic crap that’s been thrown in her direction?
Yossarian
⏭️
From what I saw of the Swoop stuff, it mainly seems to be her agreeing with whatever Johnny Depp says and attacking whatever Amber Heard says. I thought this writer made some good points about all the body language going on, there's an air of "trial by TikTok" about it.
As the Depp v. Heard case – a defamation dispute over allegations of domestic abuse and sexual violence between the pair – unfolds, videos like these, dissecting body language in the court case, have been amassing millions of views. They focus overwhelmingly on Heard, citing examples of her demeanour, posture, tics, and gestures as evidence of her deception ... As with the deluge of trial memes, body language analysis decontexualises and obscures the truth. But instead of using jokes, it peddles pseudoscience to present her guilt as an incontrovertible fact.
i-d.vice.com
As the Depp v. Heard case – a defamation dispute over allegations of domestic abuse and sexual violence between the pair – unfolds, videos like these, dissecting body language in the court case, have been amassing millions of views. They focus overwhelmingly on Heard, citing examples of her demeanour, posture, tics, and gestures as evidence of her deception ... As with the deluge of trial memes, body language analysis decontexualises and obscures the truth. But instead of using jokes, it peddles pseudoscience to present her guilt as an incontrovertible fact.
i-D
A global platform for emerging talent, i-D celebrates fashion, culture, individuality and youth.
i-d.vice.com
I thought the swoop vid was focused on what she said and not her body language. She mainly points out what she thinks is gaslighting, which is interpreted through her own experience and might not be evident to those who have no experience of it. But the trial itself, the evidence presented, the credibility of witnesses, and what comes out under cross-examination, that's there to view without having to watch anyone's commentary about it.
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frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
The AH's friends freeloading on Depp and moving into his house etc is something that's happened in a lot of abuse and murder cases, especially involving drugs and alcohol, and it obviously means the abuse can escalate to even more horrific levels once more people are introduced. I had no idea about this aspect of his allegations tbh. If it's true it makes me feel really sad and really uncomfortable because this case has been used so much by incel types but watching the trial testimony i can't help feeling some sympathy towards him. I hope they're both able to get the help they need.
story
Changing the facts
From what I saw of the Swoop stuff, it mainly seems to be her agreeing with whatever Johnny Depp says and attacking whatever Amber Heard says. I thought this writer made some good points about all the body language going on, there's an air of "trial by TikTok" about it.
As the Depp v. Heard case – a defamation dispute over allegations of domestic abuse and sexual violence between the pair – unfolds, videos like these, dissecting body language in the court case, have been amassing millions of views. They focus overwhelmingly on Heard, citing examples of her demeanour, posture, tics, and gestures as evidence of her deception ... As with the deluge of trial memes, body language analysis decontexualises and obscures the truth. But instead of using jokes, it peddles pseudoscience to present her guilt as an incontrovertible fact.
i-D
A global platform for emerging talent, i-D celebrates fashion, culture, individuality and youth.
As I said, Swoop brings her own context and opinion to bear. I’m not offering it as unbiased reporting. But she seems to me to be thoughtful and considered.
As for body language, while it is, as I said, not science, we all, every one of us, use it to some extent in our own interactions and it informs our own conscious or unconscious conclusions. I’ve been looking at videos that break down JD’s body language more even than AH’s , because I’ve found hers to be so comic book villain, almost like pantomime charicature. I’ve tried to find something to balance my own reading of her.
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
The more I read I have no idea where the true balance of power was in that relationship, who lashed out first etc, and I’m not sure if any of us on here can. But I can definitely feel empathy and sympathy for both of them as troubled individuals stuck in a toxic pattern, whilst also thinking that many of their actions towards each other are never justifiable. Real life can be nuanced and complicated.
And to make a more general and difficult point, some domestic abusers do so because they are deeply troubled and have had extremely difficult (if not always abusive) backgrounds themselves, and it can be possible to view their actions as absolutely unacceptable but also have a degree of empathy for where those actions have come from. It’s a tricky balance to walk for professionals and I imagine the centre of that balance must shift in some areas compared to others, e.g. prisoner rehabilitation work compared to family work within child protection.
I also both hope from here they can get the support they they both need.
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story
Changing the facts
If you look at their respective body language during playback of various events, their recordings of rows etc. he shrinks and she preens.
They’re both actors so we may decide not to trust anything they do, but his demeanour seems to me to be consistent with the smaller more apparently unconscious reactions.
Edit: post taken down so this post edited
They’re both actors so we may decide not to trust anything they do, but his demeanour seems to me to be consistent with the smaller more apparently unconscious reactions.
Edit: post taken down so this post edited
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frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
No it wouldnt but surely there's a case that some of the meme creators have committed contempt of court or something.
story
Changing the facts
One of the things that made me feel really uncomfortable was the many many examples of recordings during rows in which he is saying “let me go, I want to go, let me leave” and she’s saying “no, you always want to leave, stay and fight, I won’t let you leave”.
For me, that shows the balance of power. Does anyone act during rows? Even actors and histrionics, it seems to me, will be true to themselves during rows and fights.
Athos
Well-Known Member
It's a very high bar, because of the first amendment right to free speech.
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
I don’t feel remotely comfortable analysing things, at that level, at this distance tbh.
But more generally the pattern of one partner wanting to stay and discuss/argue/fight and the other wanting to retreat is a very common relationship pattern in non abusive relationships. And in abusive relationships it’s not always the stayer who is the abusive one. Withdrawing in some contexts can be emotionally abusive.
I think you're talking around the case because you haven't watched it.
story
Changing the facts
Yes. And I think Swoop makes the same point.
Every time I listened to or watched anything, I’d be working to be objective and balanced. And every time I came away with the view, opinion and feeling that AH is the abuser.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Because AH claimed that Depp had caused her PTSD she was required to have evaluations by both Depp's side and her own. Depp's expert diagnosed her with two concurrent personality disorders - and some of the behaviours and very real fear of abandonment seemed to explain why she would prefer to fight than risk being left. Unfortunately Depp's own abuse in childhood resulted in his way of coping being to retreat rather than fight. An impossible situation for both of them.
D'wards
IT'S YOUR DECISION DANIEL
I think the audio tapes of Heard admitting to hitting Depp and mocking him for being a male DV victim went a long way to losing her case for her.
That was very nasty stuff.
Plus even if you watch the full tape of him raging about slamming doors in the kitchen at the end you can see Heard's face and she has a mocking smirk.
She doesn't look scared at all
That was very nasty stuff.
Plus even if you watch the full tape of him raging about slamming doors in the kitchen at the end you can see Heard's face and she has a mocking smirk.
She doesn't look scared at all
D'wards
IT'S YOUR DECISION DANIEL
I think this has been an interesting discussion.
A lot of participants just went with the party line that women don't lie about abuse from men amongst certain political persuasions and sent Depp to the gallows.
Now you've actually looked into the evidence some of ya'll have had a rethink.
That's a plus, shows people are willing to examine their own views rather than doggedly stick to something cos its the ideological thing to do
A lot of participants just went with the party line that women don't lie about abuse from men amongst certain political persuasions and sent Depp to the gallows.
Now you've actually looked into the evidence some of ya'll have had a rethink.
That's a plus, shows people are willing to examine their own views rather than doggedly stick to something cos its the ideological thing to do
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story
Changing the facts
Patronising much?
Some of us had opinions that we didn’t air on here when it was so clamorous and partisan.
D'wards
IT'S YOUR DECISION DANIEL
D'wards
IT'S YOUR DECISION DANIEL
But you are right, look at the abuse Ann got when she stuck up for Depp, then she got angry and fed the trolls
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
Maybe but then how much of it do you need to watch? It surely needs to be the whole thing to not risk cherry picking.
I also don’t think it’s a bad thing to have more wide angle views alongside the narrow focus, but as it’s going the way of the latter that’s cool, I’ll just step back again.
story
Changing the facts
Why step back though? If your view is valid - as you say wide angle is also good - then why not share it.
Having watched the Swoop video...
I think Heards responses are very abnormal.. ...not just "guilty"...they're very odd. At one stage she started eating something while being asked very serious questions. It just doesn't seem real. Its as if she is trying to disassociate or something?
It's nearly as if she has some real difficulties with social cues too. Watching her .. she doesn't react the way we expect.
Her need to not be abandoned seems to be overwhelmingly strong and she definitely controlled or attempted to control JD.
It's quite a mess. They both should have gone to couples and individual therapy. I'm not a psychiatrist but AH does come across as very unstable and in need of help. Not to excuse her behaviour towards JD but she does seem to have instigated arguments? Demanding JD do things and then getting into a loop of arguing with him. Communication is taking a backseat to high emotions. In the recordings she seems to be very emotionally driven. To the detriment of understanding or even acknowledhing that JD is offering/ seeking some space.
JD is clearly well able to control himself in court. Maybe he should have taken a massive step away from the relationship. .but he had his own demons with drink drugs etc ..
Nothing about their relationship looks like "normal ".
But someone must have seen this trainwreck coming. Its sad that nobody seems to have stepped in to advise them to get help.
After watching some more videos...I just cant call the truth.
I think the UK verdict was correct. JD hit AH. But AH caused a hell of a lot of fighting and the cogarette burned on his face...is despicable.
Was she reliving past abuse and afraid JD would abandon her? Possibly. She does seem to have had a rough time pre JD.
I hope they both get help. And that they can live their lives now. But I suspect AH will not find it very easy and will need help with her mh. JD will too.
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
Tbf I think I’ve said most of what’s in my head right now. I’ll come back if I have any new hot takes
I will be upfront that even if I deliberately was trying to not publicly make assumptions and judgements based on the snippets I was getting from both “sides” (I have since found what seemed to be a pretty good run down of the main evidence from both perspectives), I have of course noticed them in my own head and have felt I’ve needed to challenge some.
I think for now I’m mainly left hoping that, again in the wider context, that this doesn’t lead to the further stigmatising of people with Borderline Personality Disorder.
story
Changing the facts
While I was trapped in extreme distress my drinking went up to alcoholic levels. I also relied on drugs more, and in a more unstable way, than at any other time in my life.
Not to excuse drug addled behaviour or problems arising from addiction but it strikes me that Depp may have been using drugs and alcohol in a similar way.
Not to excuse drug addled behaviour or problems arising from addiction but it strikes me that Depp may have been using drugs and alcohol in a similar way.
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cesare
shady's dreams ♥
And people with Histrionic Personality Disorder. And people with PTSD.Tbf I think I’ve said most of what’s in my head right now. I’ll come back if I have any new hot takes
I will be upfront that even if I deliberately was trying to not publicly make assumptions and judgements based on the snippets I was getting from both “sides” (I have since found what seemed to be a pretty good run down of the main evidence from both perspectives), I have of course noticed them in my own head and have felt I’ve needed to challenge some.
I think for now I’m mainly left hoping that, again in the wider context, that this doesn’t lead to the further stigmatising of people with Borderline Personality Disorder.
story
Changing the facts
Tbf I think I’ve said most of what’s in my head right now. I’ll come back if I have any new hot takes
I will be upfront that even if I deliberately was trying to not publicly make assumptions and judgements based on the snippets I was getting from both “sides” (I have since found what seemed to be a pretty good run down of the main evidence from both perspectives), I have of course noticed them in my own head and have felt I’ve needed to challenge some.
I think for now I’m mainly left hoping that, again in the wider context, that this doesn’t lead to the further stigmatising of people with Borderline Personality Disorder.
It‘s never good to stigmatise those with MH issues.
One of the good things I see on YouTube is content makers with diagnosed disorders embracing their full whole selves and demonstrating that you can be kind, decent, creative, industrious, successful, confident, with plenty of good social relationships etc and so forth despite having those diagnoses. Given that youngsters get a lot of their social cues from places like YouTube these days, I think this stigma bullshit will look very old fashioned quite soon.
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