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Johnny Depp Libel Case

cesare said:
Aladdin what makes you think they weren't having therapy?
Click to expand...


They saw a psychotherapist towards the end of their marriage who stated that they were mutually abusive..

Maybe if they had startes therapy much earlier things might've been better?

I dont know all the ins & outs.
 
Aladdin said:
They saw a psychotherapist towards the end of their marriage who stated that they were mutually abusive..

Maybe if they had startes therapy much earlier things might've been better?

I dont know all the ins & outs.
Click to expand...
AH (for example) has been having therapy for years. They've also had couples therapy. They've also had nurses looking after them as well as other medics.
 
cesare said:
And people with Histrionic Personality Disorder. And people with PTSD.
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Absolutely but BPD is already really, really stigmatised, way more than PTSD in my experience. HPD would probably be more stigmatised in the public eye if it was more well known. Also I’m not sure if people with HPD often come to the attention of physical and mental health service quite to the degree that people with BPD do.

And it’s also not very well understood. There is a push to have BPD recognised more as Complex PTSD, and also suggestions that at least part of the presentation may be linked to how Autism and Pathological Demand Avoidance tends to present in undiagnosed young women. It’s been accused of being a diagnostic dumping ground for some time and also previously seen as “untreatable”.

Basically I have more concerned feelings of how the understanding of BPD could be shaped by this trial than the other two.
 
cesare said:
AH (for example) has been having therapy for years. They've also had couples therapy. They've also had nurses looking after them as well as other medics.
Click to expand...


Ah ok.. I didnt know.this. thanks

Its all the more sad then that they ended up in court, having the world poke at them. Its extremely sad that there was no other way open to them to try to resolve things.
I cant see JD feeling good about "winning" this. And AH is pretty much destroyed in every way. She will need so much help now just to not end up shattered as a human being.
 
Aladdin said:
They saw a psychotherapist towards the end of their marriage who stated that they were mutually abusive..

Maybe if they had startes therapy much earlier things might've been better?

I dont know all the ins & outs.
Click to expand...
Tbf it’s often a no no to offer couple therapy when there is existing abuse. I know a very skilled family therapist who offered it but it was in a very specific context with a lot of external support structures.

Basically the concern is the therapy can worsen the abuse.

Oops I’m still here :oops:
 
My personal take is that JD won because he's a better actor.
He remained aware of the cameras the whole time he was in court as well as entering and leaving court. He is more charming, funny and presents more emotionally stable, calm and confident. He is as a result, much more likeable than AH (and has more fans) and he and his legal team were fully aware of those facts. The cult of celebrity and personality, both of which rely heavily on mainstream public opinion and beliefs around 'how good people present' which are in turn heavily influenced by patriarchal standards, gender roles and expectations.

He played the role of a confident, collected, amused man who would get off with this. His legal team were equally sure of themselves.
Filming it all was key. He knew AH would not come over well having her every move and facial expression scrutinised. And he was right.

I'm not even going to comment on guilt etc as tbh we weren't there and in trials of personality and celebrity like this...it's meaningless.
 
His texts to friends were pretty nasty.

"In text messages to friends, Johnny Depp fantasized about murdering his then-wife, the actress Amber Heard. “I will fuck her burnt corpse afterwards to make sure she’s dead,” Depp wrote. In other texts, he disparaged his wife’s body in luridly misogynist terms. “Mushy pointless dangling overused floppy fish market,” he called her."


Not sure that side of JD was shown to full effect in the trial. I mean that's really nasty stuff.
There's no doubt JD kept his act together in court. You would think he was a total gentleman.
Just shows how good an actor he is.
 
Aladdin said:
His texts to friends were pretty nasty.

"In text messages to friends, Johnny Depp fantasized about murdering his then-wife, the actress Amber Heard. “I will fuck her burnt corpse afterwards to make sure she’s dead,” Depp wrote. In other texts, he disparaged his wife’s body in luridly misogynist terms. “Mushy pointless dangling overused floppy fish market,” he called her."


Not sure that side of JD was shown to full effect in the trial. I mean that's really nasty stuff.
There's no doubt JD kept his act together in court. You would think he wad a total gentleman.
Just shows how good an actor he is.
Click to expand...
Yes AH's lawyers absolutely made sure everyone knew how awful those texts about her were. But the defamation was about physical and sexual abuse, and obv the jurors preferred his evidence. And preferred hers in one count against Adam Waldman.
 
I wonder what Depp's financial situation is like.
From what I understand his levels of splashing the cash make Elton look like a spendthrift.

Since all this has been going on he has hardly worked, and certainly not since the UK trial.

I think he's one of those rich people who has bought so much and employ so many people they need to earn a shocking amount to keep it all rolling.
He has an island for gawd's sake. He used to have a fully manned yacht but sold it to JK Rowling.
He reportedly spent $200k a month on wine. That's a lot of Zinfandel.

He's gonna have to start doing Hollywood blockbusters again or radically downsize
 
D'wards said:
I wonder what Depp's financial situation is like.
From what I understand his levels of splashing the cash make Elton look like a spendthrift.

Since all this has been going on he has hardly worked, and certainly not since the UK trial.

I think he's one of those rich people who has bought so much and employ so many people they need to earn a shocking amount to keep it all rolling.
He has an island for gawd's sake. He used to have a fully manned yacht but sold it to JK Rowling.
He reportedly spent $200k a month on wine. That's a lot of Zinfandel.

He's gonna have to start doing Hollywood blockbusters again or radically downsize
Click to expand...
Sorry just fact checked myself - its a mere $30k a month on wine.
$200k was on his private jet
 
Aladdin said:
Having watched the Swoop video...
I think Heards responses are very abnormal.. ...not just "guilty"...they're very odd. At one stage she started eating something while being asked very serious questions. It just doesn't seem real. Its as if she is trying to disassociate or something?

It's nearly as if she has some real difficulties with social cues too. Watching her .. she doesn't react the way we expect.

Her need to not be abandoned seems to be overwhelmingly strong and she definitely controlled or attempted to control JD.

It's quite a mess. They both should have gone to couples and individual therapy. I'm not a psychiatrist but AH does come across as very unstable and in need of help. Not to excuse her behaviour towards JD but she does seem to have instigated arguments? Demanding JD do things and then getting into a loop of arguing with him. Communication is taking a backseat to high emotions. In the recordings she seems to be very emotionally driven. To the detriment of understanding or even acknowledhing that JD is offering/ seeking some space.

JD is clearly well able to control himself in court. Maybe he should have taken a massive step away from the relationship. .but he had his own demons with drink drugs etc ..

Nothing about their relationship looks like "normal ".
But someone must have seen this trainwreck coming. Its sad that nobody seems to have stepped in to advise them to get help.

After watching some more videos...I just cant call the truth.
I think the UK verdict was correct. JD hit AH. But AH caused a hell of a lot of fighting and the cogarette burned on his face...is despicable.

Was she reliving past abuse and afraid JD would abandon her? Possibly. She does seem to have had a rough time pre JD.

I hope they both get help. And that they can live their lives now. But I suspect AH will not find it very easy and will need help with her mh. JD will too.
Click to expand...


Not arguing with the main thrust of your post but I'm going to counter two of your points because they seem to come from not understanding the dynamics of abusive relationships.

You suggest that Depp should have taken a huge step back. Regardless of who the main instigator is or where the balance of power lies, this is hugely massively monumentally difficult for both the abuser and their victim. And it's more difficult for the victim than for the abuser.

Second, people outside often find it fantastically difficult to intervene and even if they do manage to somehow get a word in, it's still incredibly unlikely that it would make a material difference.

This is one if the most tricky aspects of abusive relationships: once they're up and running they're like a perpetual motion machine and it needs to be broken and dismantled in order to stop.
 
Aladdin said:
His texts to friends were pretty nasty.

"In text messages to friends, Johnny Depp fantasized about murdering his then-wife, the actress Amber Heard. “I will fuck her burnt corpse afterwards to make sure she’s dead,” Depp wrote. In other texts, he disparaged his wife’s body in luridly misogynist terms. “Mushy pointless dangling overused floppy fish market,” he called her."


Not sure that side of JD was shown to full effect in the trial. I mean that's really nasty stuff.
There's no doubt JD kept his act together in court. You would think he was a total gentleman.
Just shows how good an actor he is.
Click to expand...


I confess to ugly murderous fantasies that now appall me. The vengeful fantasies I shared with friends were lurid and grotesque. Even as I was saying them, to an audience of horrified awkward laughter, I was aware and ashamed of how corrupted I had become by what was being done to me.

ETA
It was gallows humour. It was an effort to find some sense of autonomy, agency.
 
Last edited:
Clair De Lune said:
My personal take is that JD won because he's a better actor.
He remained aware of the cameras the whole time he was in court as well as entering and leaving court. He is more charming, funny and presents more emotionally stable, calm and confident. He is as a result, much more likeable than AH (and has more fans) and he and his legal team were fully aware of those facts. The cult of celebrity and personality, both of which rely heavily on mainstream public opinion and beliefs around 'how good people present' which are in turn heavily influenced by patriarchal standards, gender roles and expectations.

He played the role of a confident, collected, amused man who would get off with this. His legal team were equally sure of themselves.
Filming it all was key. He knew AH would not come over well having her every move and facial expression scrutinised. And he was right.

I'm not even going to comment on guilt etc as tbh we weren't there and in trials of personality and celebrity like this...it's meaningless.
Click to expand...
It was down to the evidence in the end, not the performances in court.
 
D'wards said:
I wonder what Depp's financial situation is like.
From what I understand his levels of splashing the cash make Elton look like a spendthrift.

Since all this has been going on he has hardly worked, and certainly not since the UK trial.

I think he's one of those rich people who has bought so much and employ so many people they need to earn a shocking amount to keep it all rolling.
He has an island for gawd's sake. He used to have a fully manned yacht but sold it to JK Rowling.
He reportedly spent $200k a month on wine. That's a lot of Zinfandel.

He's gonna have to start doing Hollywood blockbusters again or radically downsize
Click to expand...


If it's true that he has now finally gotten out of an abusive trap he's probably going to want to keep things as simple and as safe as possible. It takes a long time to recover from an abusive relationship.

Chances are that it's only now that he can feel some sense of validation that he'll start feeling like the whole thing is behind him.

In terms of safety I'm more worried about her. I think she must be a truly terrible place right now. I hope she has good kind sensible people around her.
 
Agent Sparrow said:
Maybe but then how much of it do you need to watch? It surely needs to be the whole thing to not risk cherry picking.

I also don’t think it’s a bad thing to have more wide angle views alongside the narrow focus, but as it’s going the way of the latter that’s cool, I’ll just step back again.
Click to expand...

I think we're all able to zoom in and out. But in a trial, the evidence is what is presented in that trial.
 
Agent Sparrow said:
Absolutely but BPD is already really, really stigmatised, way more than PTSD in my experience. HPD would probably be more stigmatised in the public eye if it was more well known. Also I’m not sure if people with HPD often come to the attention of physical and mental health service quite to the degree that people with BPD do.

And it’s also not very well understood. There is a push to have BPD recognised more as Complex PTSD, and also suggestions that at least part of the presentation may be linked to how Autism and Pathological Demand Avoidance tends to present in undiagnosed young women. It’s been accused of being a diagnostic dumping ground for some time and also previously seen as “untreatable”.

Basically I have more concerned feelings of how the understanding of BPD could be shaped by this trial than the other two.
Click to expand...
Thanks for taking the time to explain your views on this. It also signalled the BPD v complex PTSD debate which is very interesting (to me). I found this video a good short summary of the various views:
 
There seems to have been suppression of evidence that has been entered into the Uk case?

I wonder how they got away with that..
 
Clair De Lune said:
He played the role of a confident, collected, amused man who would get off with this. His legal team were equally sure of themselves.
Filming it all was key. He knew AH would not come over well having her every move and facial expression scrutinised. And he was right.
Click to expand...
I agree he came across as more believable from the bits I've watched (I'm aware they're sped up though) but to me he didn't seem confident at all, he looked like a wreck during parts of it.
 
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