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John-Paul Sartre

Serene said:
Aye, point taken, I really do understand what you are saying. I am a huge fan of biographies of interesting people. I was reading just now that Nausea, according to a reviewer can be depressing reading. I am building up a picture with a view of how much to read and which should be the starting point.
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If you want to read about Sartre rather than read Sartre, don't do it in biographies. The man himself is not the interesting part, it is his ideas. Pick up a book about existentialism and it'll have a chapter on what he wrote.
 
kabbes said:
Serene, do you plan to actually read any Sartre, or just a few out-of-context quotes?

I warn you, he's not the easiest to read. Being and Nothingness is a real slog. But there is a lot of genius in there that revolutionised 20th century thought. You can't just pick it up in soundbites, though.
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A few months ago I decided to read some Dickens. I started with Hard Times, because I thought it sounded really full on seeing as Dickens was titling as such! It was supremely depressing.
 
kabbes said:
If you want to read about Sartre rather than read Sartre, don't do it in biographies. The man himself is not the interesting part, it is his ideas. Pick up a book about existentialism and it'll have a chapter on what he wrote.
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That is a very good idea. Thank you, I think that is what I shall do. I shall order a book on Existentialism. A plan, ty.
 
By the way, I'm no expert, but I would say that within Sartre's revolutionary ideas, the core is that none of us really exist. By which he meant that there is no "you" -- no essential identity that exists in some pure form separate from context. Instead, there is only the story of what you tell yourself that you are (not how he put it, but this is filtered through my own understanding). The story is really seductive -- so much so that you convince yourself that it has concrete form, that there is a "you", indistinguishable from the story of you. However, if you just decide to be different then you are different. The only true freedom people have is the freedom to choose, but this freedom is absolute.
 
"Every existing thing is born without reason, prolongs itself out of weakness, and dies by chance"

I always thought it could work as well as...

"Every existing thing is born without reason, prolongs itself out of chance, and dies by weakness.


And this is one quote I really do like.

"Freedom is what you do with what's been done to you"
 
kabbes said:
By the way, I'm no expert, but I would say that within Sartre's revolutionary ideas, the core is that none of us really exist. By which he meant that there is no "you" -- no essential identity that exists in some pure form separate from context. Instead, there is only the story of what you tell yourself that you are (not how he put it, but this is filtered through my own understanding). The story is really seductive -- so much so that you convince yourself that it has concrete form, that there is a "you", indistinguishable from the story of you. However, if you just decide to be different then you are different. The only true freedom people have is the freedom to choose, but this freedom is absolute.
Click to expand...
For Heidegger, most of the time 'you' are really Them: your desires and beliefs are subsumed to what They desire and believe.
 
kabbes said:
By the way, I'm no expert, but I would say that within Sartre's revolutionary ideas, the core is that none of us really exist. By which he meant that there is no "you" -- no essential identity that exists in some pure form separate from context. Instead, there is only the story of what you tell yourself that you are (not how he put it, but this is filtered through my own understanding). The story is really seductive -- so much so that you convince yourself that it has concrete form, that there is a "you", indistinguishable from the story of you. However, if you just decide to be different then you are different. The only true freedom people have is the freedom to choose, but this freedom is absolute.
Click to expand...
Thank you Kabbes. I enjoyed this passage you wrote, it is efficacious, and it is well intended and a good advice. I am familiar with Buddhism, there is a thinking in Buddhism where nothing exists. I am familiar with such concepts. Also Buddhism is to do with having no delusions. Those Beatniks were into Buddhism also. I am of the mindset that you describe, in that I am able to take it all in. Again, well done on your passage there, it was wonderful reading. You clearly are an Academic, and maybe a teacher / author.
 
Aladdin said:
"Every existing thing is born without reason, prolongs itself out of weakness, and dies by chance"

I always thought it could work as well as...

"Every existing thing is born without reason, prolongs itself out of chance, and dies by weakness.


And this is one quote I really do like.

"Freedom is what you do with what's been done to you"
Click to expand...
Yes!! of all the quotes that I have read of him the last 2 days, that immediately struck me the most. "Freedom is what you do with what's been done to you" It is very to the point truth that quote is.
 
And on his death bed..
according to Pierre Victor he turns away from existentialism..

“I do not feel that I am the product of chance, a speck of dust in the universe, but someone who was expected, prepared, prefigured. In short, a being whom only a Creator could put here; and this idea of a creating hand refers to god.”

Which didnt go down so well with his existentialist friends and Simone.
 
Aladdin said:
And on his death bed..
according to Pierre Victor he turns away from existentialism..

“I do not feel that I am the product of chance, a speck of dust in the universe, but someone who was expected, prepared, prefigured. In short, a being whom only a Creator could put here; and this idea of a creating hand refers to god.”

Which didnt go down so well with his existentialist friends and Simone.
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Did he really say this or did a Priest make it up to make it look like a victory for the organised church?
 
Aladdin said:
..as true as ever, sadly.
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Yes this is true and certainly it is today. When a person is of an Academic and middle-class mindset and is immersed in the streets of criminals and nasty fools, it is so. It is always wise to only choose friends that are nice.
 
While it's an intrinsic part of their work, worth saying that both Sartre and Camus are enjoyable to read if you don't have any interest in their philosophy (or, like me, you have no background or especial interest in philosophy).

The Age of Reason and L'Etranger both stand up as great works of literature.
 
oryx said:
While it's an intrinsic part of their work, worth saying that both Sartre and Camus are enjoyable to read if you don't have any interest in their philosophy (or, like me, you have no background or especial interest in philosophy).

The Age of Reason and L'Etranger both stand up as great works of literature.
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That is an interesting comment.
 
kabbes said:
By the way, I'm no expert, but I would say that within Sartre's revolutionary ideas, the core is that none of us really exist. By which he meant that there is no "you" -- no essential identity that exists in some pure form separate from context. Instead, there is only the story of what you tell yourself that you are (not how he put it, but this is filtered through my own understanding). The story is really seductive -- so much so that you convince yourself that it has concrete form, that there is a "you", indistinguishable from the story of you. However, if you just decide to be different then you are different. The only true freedom people have is the freedom to choose, but this freedom is absolute.
Click to expand...

:hmm:
..,.,
 
Serene said:
Did he really say this or did a Priest make it up to make it look like a victory for the organised church?
Click to expand...


Who knows...
But..

"

Sartre’s Death-Bed Conversion​

Turning to Sartre, Metaxas tells us that the French atheist came into the Church on his deathbed after confessing his sins to a priest. Now let’s be perfectly candid about something. Atheists hate these conversion stories. They really hate the deathbed variety. According to Metaxas, Simone de Beauvoir called her famous lover’s conversion “an act of senility.” Others see “last-breath” conversions as an act of cowardice. When Christopher Hitchens was dying of cancer, he dismissed any possibility of his own deathbed conversion. He said he would never take solace from Christianity’s “false consolations."

stream.org

Eric Metaxas Dances on Atheism's Grave - The Stream

Eric Metaxas's new book, "Is Atheism Dead?" explodes bad arguments, confirms the truth of Scripture, and offers stories of hope.
stream.org stream.org
 
Santino said:
For Heidegger, most of the time 'you' are really Them: your desires and beliefs are subsumed to what They desire and believe.
Click to expand...
And this is an idea that has heavily influenced contemporary sociocultural psychology (directly from Heidegger and also via Vygotsky). It is suggested that humans are the “symbolic animal” — we do not directly experience, but instead have our experience mediated through meaning. And in turn, that meaning is created through the cultural artefacts that we used to learn what the world is. So it is through others that we build our understanding, and it is this understanding that generates our experience, and it is our experience that comprises us.
 
Aladdin said:
Who knows...
But..

"

Sartre’s Death-Bed Conversion​

Turning to Sartre, Metaxas tells us that the French atheist came into the Church on his deathbed after confessing his sins to a priest. Now let’s be perfectly candid about something. Atheists hate these conversion stories. They really hate the deathbed variety. According to Metaxas, Simone de Beauvoir called her famous lover’s conversion “an act of senility.” Others see “last-breath” conversions as an act of cowardice. When Christopher Hitchens was dying of cancer, he dismissed any possibility of his own deathbed conversion. He said he would never take solace from Christianity’s “false consolations."

stream.org

Eric Metaxas Dances on Atheism's Grave - The Stream

Eric Metaxas's new book, "Is Atheism Dead?" explodes bad arguments, confirms the truth of Scripture, and offers stories of hope.
stream.org stream.org
Click to expand...
And there still isnt a single scrap of evidence that there is a God.
 
kabbes said:
And this is an idea that has heavily influenced contemporary sociocultural psychology (directly from Heidegger and also via Vygotsky). It is suggested that humans are the “symbolic animal” — we do not directly experience, but instead have our experience mediated through meaning. And in turn, that meaning is created through the cultural artefacts that we used to learn what the world is. So it is through others that we build our understanding, and it is this understanding that generates our experience, and it is our experience that comprises us.
Click to expand...
Thats another wonderful post. I am inspired! I am going to get a Beret and a pipe and start saying Daddy-o all the time.
 
Serene said:
Yes this is true and certainly it is today. When a person is of an Academic and middle-class mindset and is immersed in the streets of criminals and nasty fools, it is so. It is always wise to only choose friends that are nice.
Click to expand...


I dont actually agree with this.

hellish people can be any class including highly educated types....and some of the nicest people are not waving degrees about the place.
 
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