Whatever else can be said, and to take the OP title at its most literal, for certain, yes Jesus is a Myth - the Jesus story is pure mythologising, from start to finish. Practically defines myth.
Which does not mean it isn't true.
Whatever else can be said, and to take the OP title at its most literal, for certain, yes Jesus is a Myth - the Jesus story is pure mythologising, from start to finish. Practically defines myth.
CFYWhich does not mean it isn't partly true.
Where did he come from? I'm pretty sure there was no such place as Nazareth in the first century AD and was only built up a few hundred years later.
Also in reference to what we might expect to find in archeological terms, his empty tomb would be great. Archeologists have scoured the deserts in the Middle East hoping to find evidence of Biblical prophecies and have found pretty much nothing. I think that says a lot too.
There probably was a Nazareth but it was too small to even appear on a map. There are contemperaneous documents that simply refer to this figure as 'The Nazarene' because he was literally the only person who came from there that anyone had heard of.
I'm not sure your expectations of archeological evidence are realistic given the amount of time that has elapsed, the conditions at the time in the area and since etc (reminds me of Robert Tombs' stuff about hardly anyone being massacred during bloody week in the Paris Commune because he's done an exhaustive search and can only find records of deaths and burials for a couple of thousand so that's all it was - and that's not a good thing). Also, wouldn't the tomb only be empty if Jesus was the son of God risen again, which I don't think anyone here has claimed of him.
I think I read somewhere that it may be a case of lost in translation and that it may be a reference to the word
Nazirite which means being bound by a vow to God. The Nazirites are mentioned a lot in the OT for example.
Yeh I accept your second point all right.
Good point.
Israel Antiquities AuthorityI don't pretend to be completely up to date with the historiography and debates surrounding this - most of what I know is taken from Reza Aslan's Zealot and for me at least he makes a persuasive case for there having been a nazareth at the time (there certainly was something there, some kind of settlement) and for the nazarene referring to Jesus of Nazareth.
If you're interested I found a pdf of it here
Jesus almost certainly didn't have a tomb empty or otherwise. Crucifixion victims were typically left on the cross for several days to be fed on by scavengers before being buried in unmarked pits. The earliest account of people encountering Jesus post death from Paul suggests people had visions of him, with the stuff about Jesus emerging from tomb only coming later in the gospels. In particular the later gospels embellish the story to emphasise that it was the physical flesh and blood body which came back to life.Also in reference to what we might expect to find in archeological terms, his empty tomb would be great. Archeologists have scoured the deserts in the Middle East hoping to find evidence of Biblical prophecies and have found pretty much nothing. I think that says a lot too.
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
— Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158[8]
BUMP
Excellent lecture here, fact filled....includes some early christian and pre-chrisitan history which makes the case the jesus didnt exist at all very convincingly. the fact that there was already a Jesus that existed in Jewish angelography, and an angel in direct opposition to Satan at that, I found particularly interesting. Too much here to summarise at this time of the morning
tldw theres a summary here, but tis not a very good read, whilst the lecture is crystal clear
Richard Carrier - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
woke up too earlyInteresting
You are just getting up - so good morning
I'm off to bed
BUMP
Excellent lecture here, fact filled, peer-reviewed....includes some early christian and pre-chrisitan history which makes the case the jesus didnt exist at all very convincingly. the fact that there was already a Jesus that existed in Jewish angelography, and an angel in direct opposition to Satan at that, I found particularly interesting. Too much here to summarise at this time of the morning
tldw theres a sort of summary here, but its not a very good read, whilst the lecture is crystal clear
Richard Carrier - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
i'll check the link in due course but of course he is currently in a minority in academia, where through centuries of scholarship the gravity has been drawn to an existing jesus - it cant be denied that christian culture, including within universities, has had a sway on that formation of study.The Wikipedia article, which may have been rewritten since you posted, says that he isn't taken very seriously.
And here is Bart Erhman putting the boot into him.
BUMP
Excellent lecture here, fact filled, peer-reviewed....includes some early christian and pre-chrisitan history which makes the case the jesus didnt exist at all very convincingly. the fact that there was already a Jesus that existed in Jewish angelography, and an angel in direct opposition to Satan at that, I found particularly interesting. Too much here to summarise at this time of the morning
tldw theres a sort of summary here, but its not a very good read, whilst the lecture is crystal clear
Richard Carrier - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
His work is peer reviewed. The main disagreement between the two is the Erhman is adamant that there must’ve been some guy called Jesus whereas Carrier says it is unlikely anyone existed.The Wikipedia article, which may have been rewritten since you posted, says that he isn't taken very seriously.
And here is Bart Erhman putting the boot into him.
His work is peer reviewed. The main disagreement between the two is the Erhman is adamant that there must’ve been some guy called Jesus whereas Carrier says it is unlikely anyone existed.
His work is peer reviewed. The main disagreement between the two is the Erhman is adamant that there must’ve been some guy called Jesus whereas Carrier says it is unlikely anyone existed.
Is he not saying 'some guy named jesus' as in a guy named jesus that is featured in the bible and was a real person. Not, 'nobody was called jesus'.There were loads of guys in First Century Palestine called Jesus. It's like claiming there are no guys called Josh in the Borough of Kensington and Chelsea.
Is he not saying 'some guy named jesus' as in a guy named jesus that is featured in the bible and was a real person. Not, 'nobody was called jesus'.
The Wikipedia article, which may have been rewritten since you posted, says that he isn't taken very seriously.
And here is Bart Erhman putting the boot into him.