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Is the future real?

Information, in this instance, is previous experience. Otherwise, where else would information come from?

the only information you can base predictions on is previous experience, but this is inductive logic, which is logically fallacious

Coherent summary: Experience is illogical

all information as experienced by humans isnt logically fallacious

Coherent summary: Experience is logical

Really wish I understood philosophy as well as you.
 
Information, in this instance, is previous experience. Otherwise, where else would information come from?

you can experience me making the following argument now, in the present:

Socrates is a man
AND
all men are mortal

therefore Socrates is mortal

therefore you are experiencing logically valid information right now, you are not predicting something in the future
 
the only information you can base predictions on is previous experience, but this is inductive logic, which is logically fallacious

Coherent summary: Experience is illogical

that is not a coherent summary, it is an unrelated statement which does not follow from the first statement

a coherent summary is:

making future predictions on the basis of past experience is inductive logic, which is fallacious
 
Example: I can look at a list of horses in a race, say 'that one will win'. I have no knowledge of how to study form, or indeed horses, but I can still make a prediction with 1/nh chace of being correct.


this example is not about 'predicting' a horse, but rather randomly selecting one horse
 
therefore you are experiencing logically valid information right now, you are not predicting something in the future

First off, if we cut out the communication middle man I'm not experiencing information, I'm experiencing your experience - you experienced information that led you to believe that Socrates was a man. It's only logical from your experience summation, and not neccesarily from mine. Brain process does not equate to predicting things in the future. Where did that even enter this particular argument?

Secondly you're changing your definition of what constitutes information. In my previous case I was using it to refer to that which we are exposed to and process directly. You are now equating your statment of the understanding of your experience as information that I don't use to predict something? Does not parse.

a coherent summary is:

making future predictions on the basis of past experience is inductive logic, which is fallacious

Please explain your logic. If we take your assumptions as read:
Inductive logic = fallacy
Therefore making a prediction based on experience is unsound reasoning
Since we only have our experiences to go on (seeing as every sense receives information that is processed to form experiences, at least if we assume that a human is a single informational entity), all predictions are fallacious
Seeing as our perceptions of our experiences are themselves based on successive processing of information related to all of our previous experiences as recalled by our brains, literally everything we comprehend is fallacious, making thought an illusionary by-product of itself.

Exactly what is it you're saying, other than "human brains aren't 100% guaranteed to be perfect"?

The whole argument is academic because, if you proved the future wasn't real it would therefore not exist and time would stop, since the concept of time as experienced by humans is dependant on there being a delta between one abstract unit of measurement and the next. If you did prove it existed and didn't want to use inductive reasoning, your conclusion would only have been valid for the probability distribution present in your current perception of the universe, and you would have to repeat your reasoning for every other femtosecond that your universe existed for, otherwise be forced to accept that your arguments were fallacious since the quantum state of matter is in constant flux. Hence it is a question that is literally impossible to answer within the confines of a three-dimensional plane moving through four-dimensional space because we lack a reference frame with which to compare and/or quantify our hypothesis, reasoning or conclusions. Ergo, the future may exist as an observable state, but it can't exist within the confines of our universe or be experienced by us, but since that hinges on the concept of dimensional information which can only be observed through direct information exposure to humans, to posit that the current universe exists would be a false assumption.

Your brain, I presume, must act on inductive reasoning every second, otherwise it would spend all its time processing information from your senses based on first principles and it would be literally impossible to learn since we can only be exposed to and process finite amounts of information within a given reference frame.

this example is not about 'predicting' a horse, but rather randomly selecting one horse

Please quantify the distinction between random singular and predictive singular, and please specify how that makes a difference to kyser's argument. Whilst you're at it, can we GOTO 10 and find out what your definition of "real" is please? Real as in a form of matter, a condensed, unravelling informational string, what? Since we seem to have strayed into the area that nothing the brain is exposed to can be proven to exist (unless you can demonstrate how the human brain doesn't use fallacious assumptions), since such a process would involve apparently fallcious inductive reasoning, is asking the question "is XYZ real?" not an illogical question in the first place?
 
all predictions are fallacious

in a sense, but it is better to say that any prediction could turn out to be wrong, you could pick the wrong horse


there is presumably a difference between picking one horse at random, and actually making an informed prediction of which horse will win
 
The present NOW exists, it is the realm of the actual, of all actions and reactions.

The past is the memory of previous NOW moments, recollected or recorded for various reasons but mostly forgotten.

The future does not exist, when it becomes the now it exists but then it is NOW.

What are you doing now?

What you are doing now is what is most important to you at this moment, reading a piece of text on an internet forum. Nothing right now is more important to you or, you would be doing it!

If you accept that time might be like a piece of string travelling from the past towards the future and along which we travel in step by step moments. Then identifying one end to the piece of string that is time strongly suggests that there will be another end. That time is not infinite.

The suggestion that the future does not exist suggests that the thread of time travels from the past (which we know used to exist) up to this moment and no further. Thus there is one end to time. That suggests that there is also a beginning, because if a piece of string has one end then it certainly usually has another.

What this does not explain however is if there is only one thread of time. Perhaps there are many threads and perhaps it is possible to jump from one to another.
 
What you are doing now is what is most important to you at this moment, reading a piece of text on an internet forum. Nothing right now is more important to you or, you would be doing it!.


the way i like to imagine it is that every moment experiences itself as the present moment, there is no real 'order' to time in a sense

Rudy rucker wrote some great sci-fi about time as the 4th dimension of space
 
you can experience me making the following argument now, in the present:

Socrates is a man
AND
all men are mortal

therefore Socrates is mortal

therefore you are experiencing logically valid information right now, you are not predicting something in the future

Been reading your logic 4 dummiez book?

:D
 
Maybe you should flick a few pages in.

It gets more interesting and complex than the kind of beginners logic that you are expressing.
 
It's a work-in-progress, one that's emerging from the dreamtime into actuality. 'The matter of the universe', talked about, is the total information of the universe. That's different at different times, but the sequence of information-spaces coheres in a systematic way.

Apparently :p

:cool:
 
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