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"Is Man Just Another Animal?" Professor Steve Jones says...

... which, if you think about it, is a pretty juvenile response. It's an intellectual discussion. Anyone who goes red and sputters 'This is an outrage!' if they see the words 'you are a social Darwinist' appear on their screen, is either manufacturing fake umbrage, or needs to examine priorities.

I'm inclined to agree, but it shows he isn't paying attention or giving any thought to anything anybody is saying. It's a nasty accusation in its own right but there is a broader recurring problem and it would be best if we didn't feed it.

Besides he's done something worse now. Oh gorski :(.
 
Except that that isn't really what happened. Just people asking him to explain himself. In my case, I did not believe, and still don't, that he knew what the term meant at the time of posting it, and he's been bluffing furiously ever since.

For what it's worth he said this on the first page:
Isn't that what is naturally done, in a natural world: we dominate one another? Species against species, individual against individual, until there is only one (at the top)?

His logic is that if one were to say that humans are animals then they belong to the natural world and therefore follow this law. He understands what the term means, at least in a rudimentary manner, but he never stops to think. It's not just that he doesn't know he is wrong, but that he assumes nobody has a different understanding.
 
OK, this will be fun, taking you to school... Ready? Here goes...

Thread starts OK, in good humour and no adversarial BS, until... out of the blue, as per usual, one of the usual suspects shows his studs...

You've got a five year olds understanding of ecology and evolution.

More are piling up their shit as high as they can (which is about 0.2 nanometers above ground but hey...):

I think it's that your reasoning is so risibly shallow that makes your pretensions all the funnier. Thickest cunt on the internet because you think you're clever.

Not even the smallest attempt at the issues - just the person. AND WHERE WERE YOU, "THE OUTRAGED MORALISTS", THEN?!? SILENT?!? YES, BECAUSE YOU'RE FUCKING HYPOCRITES!!!

And then, start the lies, more lies, no proof, personal accusations, innuendo, then some more lies, just more lies and then some...

The majority of your posts on this and the other thread are actually you just being rude and putting other people down. Your lack of self insight is one of the most amusing things about them.

There's an 8 and a half year old post on the now sadly binned original thread here: https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/are-human-beings-a-type-of-animal.183442/page-48#post-6335097

All he's done since then is insult people. Oh, and put up a video of a professor (*doff's cap*) and implied strongly that said professor is in agreement with him.

(Btw, in that link one can see how dash, danny and co. make their "feelings" known, not bothering much with any kind of actual thinking, arguments, reasons and suchlike. Who cares for such petty details... As I mentioned earlier, these things have not started in this thread alone, oh no... And I did not start!!! None of those exchanges!!!)

Now, pay attention to this "worthy contribution" to the issues, principles, methodology, notions used, context of importance etc. etc. The erudite, as ever, always steering clear of personal stuff, cultured to the bone and a real "language master", uninvited and out of the blue, Mr MM:

It's fucking not you know. It's loaded with you being really rude to a lot of people and has very little of your actual position on the topic.

'Your specific way' being long angry posts with lots of insults that don't add any content whatsoever. You have truly contributed more of them than anyone else on this forum ever.

Not bothering with any proof, of course - too hard to be fair and objective, go through a thread from the start and see if one's accusations are actually true, well founded, if they mean anything... oh, no, that's... for nerds... where's the fun in that? Much more "cool" to just have a go at somebody and have some mobbing fun...

And MM is not just rude to me - he attacks Johnny, too. No one jumps and states their outrage... :rolleyes:

When I challenge LBJ's lies in post no. 181 - silence! Deafening silence. All he does is "trial by proxy", no evidence needed, we do it "by memory", that's enough... Right...

Another typical arsehole coming with his (most likely) home learnt "cooltcha"...

It's nothing more than another pile of arse dribble from gorski to show us all how clever his is, how much his insight on the world elevates him above all the plebs.

He had to correct his university lecturer, don't you know. That's how clever he is.

WHERE ARE YOU, TO ATTACK THE ATTACKER, NEVER CONTRIBUTING, NEVER WANTING TO CONTRIBUTE, JUST "THROW A STONE AND RUN AWAY" DICKHEAD, PROVOKING and then.... nothing - EH, DEAR HYPOCRITES?!?

Instead of telling other people that they have no idea what this or that is, why not tell us what you think this or that is. You, know, transmit your ideas with grammatically constructed language.

Here are just some longer ones in this thread: no. 32, 151, 217, 236, 252 [Note my P.S. to Danny here: "P.S. I really abhor a debater who comes with a single, dismissive line after a considered lengthy response, hence you effort is appreciated!" - Howzat for being a prick, me, eh? Idiots! Or this post in the other thread: #2346 giving credit and being careful not to attack people who are at least trying to be decent: "Just to clarify, bubble, Knotted etc. don't seem to be amongst those, as anyone can see, unlike Shitmans Model, Trixta or Bitch or..."], 270 [see below!], 301, 335, 382, 395. That is, even though some shorter ones may also have some important parts to the puzzle (like posts no. 48, 77, 94, 118, 139, 146, 178, 220, 282, 289, 303, for instance).

Now, I did express a helluvalot more than anyone on the topic, so many a time, in a manner most here will never be able to equal and yet...

(part II to follow)
 
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If you are not lazy and unfair, which a lot of posters here are, only to do what herd does naturally, mobbing and such, in their "strength and wisdom", then you will check this and the other thread and find my posts like this:

Oh, c'mon, LBJ: which animal is concerned by its own actions which can potentially extinguishing other species (communicating globally and intergenerationally is essential here, when it comes to understanding what we do and then planning to avoid destructive outcomes)? Which animal is concerned with potential consequences of our actions today for umpteen generations to come? Which animal is capable of radically changing its social relations? Where in the Animal Kingdom did you see Revolution happen? Which animal has morals in the Modern sense of the word? Which animal creates legal constructs based on equaliberty? Which animal does what we do, when we are at our best, creative, imaginative, freedom loving, emancipatory leaning, reflective, not acting out of necessity and even against our immediate interest (self-active, I guess is a good word for this) etc. etc.?!?!?!?!?!?

And where in our "genome" is the clear and unambiguous, scientific answer for this?

And NO ONE DARES INTERACT WITH ANY OF THIS!!! You - especially the "one-liner bunch" but also some others who at least try (like LBJ) do not have the specific education and/or knowledge necessary to do this, so you are "heroically" avoiding dealing with it!

And yet...

In the other thread one can find my posts like this (#1471):

Ok...

Dash, you can have a go at me any time, I don't mind, I can defend myself, but dead cannot. Not in this sense, when we take them individually, and we even have no idea what they have done in their lifetime. So, that was really bad, as you couldn't have known if you were utterly unfair, as not even close in your presumptions, simply incorrect!

Attacking Hitler individually, for instance, for whom we have plenty of evidence what he was doing, is one thing, but attacking somebody's family just because they are from somewhere, where in fact they may have stood together with your ancestors, fighting this evil - is very wrong, indeed, on oh so many levels.

Yes, I am from a proud Anti-Fascist family. And an Anti-Fascist country [Yugoslavia is where I was borne and I do feel like a Yugoslav, if pushed, although that is but an accident of History, as Voltaire would put it, so irrelevant to anything that really matters for Humans], if you wish.

I took their values of Humanity and fought against the herd-mentality, as it were, of the sur-real Socialism I lived in and fought for precisely the spirit of their struggle. Mutual recognition and justice and fairness, fairer outcomes for all. Hence I worked with others on abolishing the totalitarian regime I grew up under.

In everything we do we not only have choices which are already there but we can make new ones, if we are Human. That is the quality animals do not have. That is the essence of who we are: the ability to Reason, to think creatively, our imagination, striving for freedom, justice and fairness and so on.

Now, most people do not have a chance to even get close to being well educated and explore their creativity etc. These outcomes must be changed. I do actually want that for all, the good quality education I got, as that - to my mind - lies atthe heart of who we potentially may become. And that is the essence of Humanity: becoming. Not because I feel everyone should be like me but because everybody should have a much better chance to develop their potential in all directions.

Humanism should be at the basis of it all, forget Social Darwinism and reductionism of any and all sorts. That is dangerous! And that means we, all of us, individually and collectively, have to use, among other things, our capacities to Reason and judge, all the time. We actually do not have any other choice. As opposed to this "relativist" argument, all is more or les the same etc. It isn't and it will never be!

The Q is: which principles, which grounds for our judgement will there be at the heart of it all and will most people be aware how they are affected and influenced by their context etc. [Hence CT as one of the best ways into it all.]

Hope that clears it up a bit. I thought your response warranted a clarification, since any - even half - decent apology and an effort to meet "the other" must be met with at least an equal effort from the other side. Only then, with some good will, doing it all in good faith - do we, as Humans, have any chance of getting anywhere and hence this response, even though I really should be writing those damn essays... Really tight now...

Later...:cool:

So, I am trying to be civil and then #1473 etc.

Eventually, curses start... but not from me! I do respond in kind after he starts it, of course. And then some clever dick, full of fairness, conveniently forgets about the beginning, just takes a shot at me, whynot... Echhh...

Or this one:

We've been through this before: we (Humans) can only ever have "a mesh of notions" (as some would put it wrongly) that we have made for ourselves, which are continuously changing, as we know, i.e. every new generation keeps making their own. We are not "God", our Science is not Religion, it does not deal in absolutes, even though some here imply/pre-suppose some such frequently/generally held nonsense, hence our limited (even if we are connected trans-generationally through language etc.) gnosis (Science and technology, Philosophy etc.) always comes up with a partial picture...

But that, again, is missing the point of the difference between us and animals (and we are talking about differences!). The key word in all this, missed by many here, is becoming (for details one must study Hegel and his predecessors, like Fichte but also heirs, like Marx and co. [mind, one could start with Aristotle and his dunamis => poiesis => energeia process])!

Animals are seriously limited (compared to every crucial respect that is defining Humanity). Even if you take Animal Kingdom as one huge body and pile up all their collective capabilities and anthropomorphise them significantly - something LBJ loves doing (which is ridiculous to the bone!) - right there is your essential difference and limitation of 'Kingdom of necessity' versus 'Empire of Freedom', as it were (to use some old ways of expressing the same idea).

In effect, what one is doing here is one is pondering Human Nature versus Animal Nature (pile them all up together or not). I have already mentioned many a characteristic that maketh a Human, whereas Animals do not have such potential and hence their reality is seriously limited to being at one with their environment/habitat - which becomes a serious (to the point of extinction) problem, once that (natural cycle) is disturbed (by other natural phenomena or us, our activity). That is, as opposed to us who continually must keep producing our environment for ourselves, in a variety of ways.

The major one, of course (in spite of beavers and bees :D ), is our potential to foresee the consequences of our actions, not just from today to tomorrow or even for a season or two but for many generations down the line. And we have to, given our capacities/power today...

Of course, for all those searching for absolute certainties, this will be a huge disappointment, as with all things Human - there are none to be had! There is only our potential to Reason - but no guarantee! That depends on us, as (active, Modern) Subjects.

...or #2195 #2236 etc.

So much for me "not saying anything", "not being serious", "not contributing", "not expressing myself properly" (the grammar bit is a real gem, Danny!) - well, on the basis of the evidence above... fuck you!!! Fuck your lies, whatever you were implying, fuck your attitude, your "fairness" (who the heck grew up in the UK here and who is from the Balkans - it is truly sad I have to teach you about the best traditions of the isles!!!), fuck your trials by proxy, fuck you!!!!

Btw, if I were to "encroach" into chemistry and its jargon, for instance, there would be an uproar. How dare you! You must study, qualify, blah-blah. Only in Philosophy this shit happens, where everybody "knows best", doesn't need to learn anything, regardless of any elementary consideration, a minimal self-insight and even a minute self-control... And none of you have any qualifications, not in the "philosophical tradition" I come from, anyway, none of you understand the context properly, have no clue where you got your notions from, heck most of you are arrogant one-liners, most frequently attacking the poster - so scared shitless are you of even trying to contribute - but you then bitch when I return the favour, as it were and insult you back similarly. Sad, sad souls!!!
 
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Completely out of order. Sort yourself out.

WTF are you on? The accusation/implication...

I'd be really impressed if he actually was a Phil Dwyer sockpuppet. It would be his best work ever.

...was ridiculous, as 1) phil and I are 2 separate individuals, 2) we are not thinking the same on any and all subjects, 3) we met in a pub with some other people being present (as mentioned). Hence, the idiotic imputation is worthy of a head-check of the individual who spouts such BS!!!
 
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I'm inclined to agree, but it shows he isn't paying attention or giving any thought to anything anybody is saying. It's a nasty accusation in its own right but there is a broader recurring problem and it would be best if we didn't feed it.

Why? Is there reciprocity? Are you asking the same of others (pay attention to what gorski is saying, pause to think etc.)? If not - go troll elsewhere... And for your information, I do read what others post, I read their links, I respond, hence I obviously do take it into consideration. If you'd only pause to think and consider it a bit...

Besides he's done something worse now. Oh gorski :(.

WTF?!? See above.
 
Do what when who does what when? Are you even capable of writing a sentence of comprehensible English? You're a fraud and a joke. You've been given every chance to explain yourself properly and you've just been a massive arrogant wanker to everyone. I think you're the one that needs to leave this thread.

See above - the only arrogant arseholes and total jokes are people like you, with nothing to contribute, nothing to come out with in the open, since you obviously have no thoughts of your own and if you do - you have no balls to do it! The only thing you and your ilk ever do is personal insults, which brings "my" thesis of our potential and no guarantees that many of us will ever reach it, sadly...

So, back under the rock which you crawled from!!!
 
WTF are you on? The accusation/implication...

"Is Man Just Another Animal?" Professor Steve Jones says...

There is no excuse for using "check into a psychiatric ward" as a causal rebuke. It's a disablist comment, stigmatising people who experience mental ill health and it trivialises their experiences.

You were given the opportunity to apologise and delete and you refused to take it.

You will have no further exchanges with me.
 
Well....
I think you've explained your thoughts very clearly now gorski.
For what it's worth...it is obvious that humans are extremely intelligent....and more, we are equipped with foresight and intuition, imagination and a curiosity to learn everything there is to discover about the world/universe we inhabit.
So, like the universe we are expanding; stretching our limits. We are only beginning to realise that the universe and hence our imagination are limitless. We grasp the concept of infinity. It's pretty obvious that we are not plants and we are not "regular run of the mill" animals. We don't live like animals do anymore. But I also think that we have to realise that our very base instincts are animal. Without law and order the human race would turn to animal law. Many would loot, assault, rape and kill. We seem to fear admitting that the animal in us is still there...

Just look at what's going on in Brazil this past week...the police are on strike and murder rates have shot up. Looting ... assaults...all up. People are terrified to leave their homes.
My point is this.....
The higher order thinking that humans uniquely have, relies on a social construct that interacts and at the same time protects. Otherwise, higher order thinkers would have to live as hermits or in some isolation and then they would not stretch their thinking enough because they are not relating to others with ideas and knowledge.
One of the reasons humans are where we are is our capacity and willingness to share knowledge. Yet, one of the reasons humanity is where it is, is our lack of willingness to share certain knowledge fairly ..equally...freely.
 
If you are not lazy and unfair, which a lot of posters here are, only to do what herd does naturally, mobbing and such, in their "strength and wisdom", then you will check this and the other thread and find my posts like this:

"Oh, c'mon, LBJ: which animal is concerned by its own actions which can potentially extinguishing other species (communicating globally and intergenerationally is essential here, when it comes to understanding what we do and then planning to avoid destructive outcomes)? Which animal is concerned with potential consequences of our actions today for umpteen generations to come? Which animal is capable of radically changing its social relations? Where in the Animal Kingdom did you see Revolution happen? Which animal has morals in the Modern sense of the word? Which animal creates legal constructs based on equaliberty? Which animal does what we do, when we are at our best, creative, imaginative, freedom loving, emancipatory leaning, reflective, not acting out of necessity and even against our immediate interest (self-active, I guess is a good word for this) etc. etc.?!?!?!?!?!?

And where in our "genome" is the clear and unambiguous, scientific answer for this?"

And NO ONE DARES INTERACT WITH ANY OF THIS!!! You - especially the "one-liner bunch" but also some others who at least try (like LBJ) do not have the specific education and/or knowledge necessary to do this, so you are "heroically" avoiding dealing with it!

And yet...

In the other thread one can find my posts like this (#1471):

"Ok...

Dash, you can have a go at me any time, I don't mind, I can defend myself, but dead cannot. Not in this sense, when we take them individually, and we even have no idea what they have done in their lifetime. So, that was really bad, as you couldn't have known if you were utterly unfair, as not even close in your presumptions, simply incorrect!

Attacking Hitler individually, for instance, for whom we have plenty of evidence what he was doing, is one thing, but attacking somebody's family just because they are from somewhere, where in fact they may have stood together with your ancestors, fighting this evil - is very wrong, indeed, on oh so many levels.

Yes, I am from a proud Anti-Fascist family. And an Anti-Fascist country [Yugoslavia is where I was borne and I do feel like a Yugoslav, if pushed, although that is but an accident of History, as Voltaire would put it, so irrelevant to anything that really matters for Humans], if you wish.

I took their values of Humanity and fought against the herd-mentality, as it were, of the sur-real Socialism I lived in and fought for precisely the spirit of their struggle. Mutual recognition and justice and fairness, fairer outcomes for all. Hence I worked with others on abolishing the totalitarian regime I grew up under.

In everything we do we not only have choices which are already there but we can make new ones, if we are Human. That is the quality animals do not have. That is the essence of who we are: the ability to Reason, to think creatively, our imagination, striving for freedom, justice and fairness and so on.

Now, most people do not have a chance to even get close to being well educated and explore their creativity etc. These outcomes must be changed. I do actually want that for all, the good quality education I got, as that - to my mind - lies atthe heart of who we potentially may become. And that is the essence of Humanity: becoming. Not because I feel everyone should be like me but because everybody should have a much better chance to develop their potential in all directions.

Humanism should be at the basis of it all, forget Social Darwinism and reductionism of any and all sorts. That is dangerous! And that means we, all of us, individually and collectively, have to use, among other things, our capacities to Reason and judge, all the time. We actually do not have any other choice. As opposed to this "relativist" argument, all is more or les the same etc. It isn't and it will never be!

The Q is: which principles, which grounds for our judgement will there be at the heart of it all and will most people be aware how they are affected and influenced by their context etc. [Hence CT as one of the best ways into it all.]

Hope that clears it up a bit. I thought your response warranted a clarification, since any - even half - decent apology and an effort to meet "the other" must be met with at least an equal effort from the other side. Only then, with some good will, doing it all in good faith - do we, as Humans, have any chance of getting anywhere and hence this response, even though I really should be writing those damn essays... Really tight now...

Later...:cool:"

So, I am trying to be civil and then #1473 etc.

Eventually, curses start... but not from me! I do respond in kind after he starts it, of course. And then some clever dick, full of fairness, conveniently forgets about the beginning, just takes a shot at me, whynot... Echhh...

Or this one:

"We've been through this before: we (Humans) can only ever have "a mesh of notions" (as some would put it wrongly) that we have made for ourselves, which are continuously changing, as we know, i.e. every new generation keeps making their own. We are not "God", our Science is not Religion, it does not deal in absolutes, even though some here imply/pre-suppose some such frequently/generally held nonsense, hence our limited (even if we are connected trans-generationally through language etc.) gnosis (Science and technology, Philosophy etc.) always comes up with a partial picture...

But that, again, is missing the point of the difference between us and animals (and we are talking about differences!). The key word in all this, missed by many here, is becoming (for details one must study Hegel and his predecessors, like Fichte but also heirs, like Marx and co. [mind, one could start with Aristotle and his dunamis => poiesis => energeia process])!

Animals are seriously limited (compared to every crucial respect that is defining Humanity). Even if you take Animal Kingdom as one huge body and pile up all their collective capabilities and anthropomorphise them significantly - something LBJ loves doing (which is ridiculous to the bone!) - right there is your essential difference and limitation of 'Kingdom of necessity' versus 'Empire of Freedom', as it were (to use some old ways of expressing the same idea).

In effect, what one is doing here is one is pondering Human Nature versus Animal Nature (pile them all up together or not). I have already mentioned many a characteristic that maketh a Human, whereas Animals do not have such potential and hence their reality is seriously limited to being at one with their environment/habitat - which becomes a serious (to the point of extinction) problem, once that (natural cycle) is disturbed (by other natural phenomena or us, our activity). That is, as opposed to us who continually must keep producing our environment for ourselves, in a variety of ways.

The major one, of course (in spite of beavers and bees :D ), is our potential to foresee the consequences of our actions, not just from today to tomorrow or even for a season or two but for many generations down the line. And we have to, given our capacities/power today...

Of course, for all those searching for absolute certainties, this will be a huge disappointment, as with all things Human - there are none to be had! There is only our potential to Reason - but no guarantee! That depends on us, as (active, Modern) Subjects."

...or #2195 #2236 etc.

So much for me "not saying anything", "not being serious", "not contributing", "not expressing myself properly" (the grammar bit is a real gem, Danny!) - well, on the basis of the evidence above... fuck you!!! Fuck your lies, whatever you were implying, fuck your attitude, your "fairness" (who the heck grew up in the UK here and who is from the Balkans - it is truly sad I have to teach you about the best traditions of the isles!!!), fuck your trials by proxy, fuck you!!!!

Btw, if I were to "encroach" into chemistry and its jargon, for instance, there would be an uproar. How dare you! You must study, qualify, blah-blah. Only in Philosophy this shit happens, where everybody "knows best", doesn't need to learn anything, regardless of any elementary consideration, a minimal self-insight and even a minute self-control... And none of you have any qualifications, not in the "philosophical tradition" I come from, anyway, none of you understand the context properly, have no clue where you got your notions from, heck most of you are arrogant one-liners, most frequently attacking the poster - so scared shitless are you of even trying to contribute - but you then bitch when I return the favour, as it were and insult you back similarly. Sad, sad souls!!!
tl;dr
 
If you are not lazy and unfair, which a lot of posters here are, ... Social Darwinism and reductionism of any and all sorts. ... I return the favour, as it were and insult you back similarly. Sad, sad souls!!!

This is such crap, stop pretending you only came here for a serious discussion of serious issues. You post, make your points (for what they're worth) then some posters respond substantively while others respond dismissively. You engage with the dismissive ones pointlessly, but even the substantial answers get no more response than a rude restatement of your opinion, no actual evidence just claims, claims and restated claims. And so the substantive replies become more dismissive ones as posters previously happy to engage intelligently feel their contributions are being ignored.

Present something new and stop pretending all the other posters are missing something novel and profound. They aren't, because there is none of that coming from you. Just saying.

tl;dr - You only have yourself to blame.
 
"Is Man Just Another Animal?" Professor Steve Jones says...

There is no excuse for using "check into a psychiatric ward" as a causal rebuke. It's a disablist comment, stigmatising people who experience mental ill health and it trivialises their experiences.

You were given the opportunity to apologise and delete and you refused to take it.

You will have no further exchanges with me.

So, never attack the attacker but the attacked has no right to give him what he deserves, eh?

In other words, no balls and no spine, no fair play lives here!

Au revoir! And good riddance!
 
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This is such crap, stop pretending you only came here for a serious discussion of serious issues. You post, make your points (for what they're worth) then some posters respond substantively while others respond dismissively. You engage with the dismissive ones pointlessly, but even the substantial answers get no more response than a rude restatement of your opinion, no actual evidence just claims, claims and restated claims. And so the substantive replies become more dismissive ones as posters previously happy to engage intelligently feel their contributions are being ignored.

Present something new and stop pretending all the other posters are missing something novel and profound. They aren't, because there is none of that coming from you. Just saying.

tl;dr - You only have yourself to blame.

This is the worst crap yet, because I just proved that I have always wanted just the exchange on the issues and I have proven who started the below the belt, usual BS. So, GO AWAY, as you also have no balls and no spine to do the right thing and be OUTRAGED at suchlikes who CAUSE this!!! Instead, you have a go at victims and think that this is "noble" or summat? If police did this you'd be all over the nasty buggers...

Show me that I attacked anyone who didn't attack me here or elsewhere first - I never had a go at Johnny, for instance, or as long as Bubble was trying, so was I and so on - so, you are LYING!!! In other words, you teamed up with a-holes such as your good self, without any moral compass and not much upstairs!

Now, to the point!

My stance was NEVER actually dealt with in any meaningful way!!! There are only a few people on this forum, mostly not here, sadly, who can even begin understanding what is being said here, on its own terms. Which is why I started the thread, with a good lead, showing that in Science there are limitations and that good, intelligent and careful scientists can come to certain conclusions but no more. The good bit was their strength, that they are not insecure to have problem admitting it. That was the reason for this. Alas, no proper either sociological or philosophical debate was to follow... Just the same old bollockless "Yes, we are"!
 
So, never attack the attacker but the attacked has no right to give him what he deserves, eh?

In other words, no balls and no spine, no fair play lives here,.

Au revoir! And good riddance!
That's really all we needed to know. You're a cunt of the highest order and you can do one.
 
Thank you for trying, Bubble!!! ;)

Btw, I hope all went well with the health issue... :)

OKI, let me try...

Well....
I think you've explained your thoughts very clearly now gorski.
For what it's worth...it is obvious that humans are extremely intelligent....and more, we are equipped with foresight and intuition, imagination and a curiosity to learn everything there is to discover about the world/universe we inhabit.
So, like the universe we are expanding; stretching our limits. We are only beginning to realise that the universe and hence our imagination are limitless. We grasp the concept of infinity. It's pretty obvious that we are not plants and we are not "regular run of the mill" animals. We don't live like animals do anymore.

OK, thanx a good start!

But I also think that we have to realise that our very base instincts are animal. Without law and order the human race would turn to animal law. Many would loot, assault, rape and kill. We seem to fear admitting that the animal in us is still there...

I think we have to be very careful here. First of all, we already had a debate on this forum, at length, with similar results, re. the nature of instincts and so on. It showed that many people had no clear idea of the difficulties there are with that notion. And that impacts on our understanding of both Animal and Human Nature, highly complex notions and highly debated issues. This is the essence of 'biologism' in Social Science.

I already mentioned that one must be careful how one paints Human Nature, for the darker the start, the grimmer the outcome, ending with a Leviathan of state, as opposed to "dismantling" and "taking over" of state functions by society itself, i.e. "overcoming" of state. I know where I stand but many have no clue about all sorts of implications...

Just look at what's going on in Brazil this past week...the police are on strike and murder rates have shot up. Looting ... assaults...all up. People are terrified to leave their homes.

I happen to know a few things more about Brazil than your average Joe, since I have a special interest, not only in the opposite side of the spectrum (Sweden) but this, too (my wife being Brazilian).

Brazil is following a Social Darwinistic paradigm, espoused by the US and as long as they are in that frame of mind - ouch, indeed! But one can argue that it is socially engineered. Perhaps you have come across such ideas, whereby everywhere in the world not only the "Left" but also the "Right" creates norms and customs etc. So, just as Sweden can create a very different set of outcomes within the capitalist framework, having a co-operative, Social Democratic paradigm they created at the basis of their society - equally, the very nasty version of Social Darwinistic capitalism can create terrible outcomes at the other end of the scale. And at the basis of that are very different versions of Human Nature. Which is THE issues here.

My point is this.....
The higher order thinking that humans uniquely have, relies on a social construct that interacts and at the same time protects. Otherwise, higher order thinkers would have to live as hermits or in some isolation and then they would not stretch their thinking enough because they are not relating to others with ideas and knowledge.
One of the reasons humans are where we are is our capacity and willingness to share knowledge. Yet, one of the reasons humanity is where it is, is our lack of willingness to share certain knowledge fairly ..equally...freely.

Indeed, I would go as far as to say, together with Habermas and co that, at the end of the day, in the long run, it is all down to what we teach our kids in kindergartens and so on...
 
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Have you no shame, no self-reflection, you poor sods?!?

You must be the worst teacher ever, if you're like this in real life too.

What would you know? No one could teach you anything with that shitty attitude of yours, since you already know everything, without ever studying anything at all, in the area that is discussed. Blimey!

That's really all we needed to know. You're a cunt of the highest order and you can do one.

No, you are and I have proven it, beyond any doubt! So, FUCK OFF!!!

"I'm just too clever for you plebs".

This is literally all you have. You're the worst kind of idiot.

See above. Moron!!!

It's worse than that.

'You're not clever enough to see the truth of what you're saying. Only I'm clever enough to see that.'

Get over yourself, at least you should be able to see that much: you are NOT educated in this area and yet you insist and insist, without opening your mind.

I am much more qualified to speak on the issues than you. So, what? When we discussed "instincts" Jonti had no idea, just like you - but he kept embarrassing himself, mistaking reflexes for instincts and whatnot. ABC. And then he got angry with me, for pointing it out. Turn the finger to yourself, if you dare!!!

I, on the other hand, had no problem asking Jonti for advice in IT and suchlike, his neck of the woods. Give credit where credit is due. Except to philosophers. Yeah, right... Great attitude!!!

So, in short, go sort yourself out!
 
So, never attack the attacker but the attacked has no right to give him what he deserves, eh?

In other words, no balls and no spine, no fair play lives here,.

Au revoir! And good riddance!
For the last time:

Do you really not understand what you did? Insult maomao if you want. That's between you and him. But you used vile disablist language to do it. This was explained very clearly to you. You refused to retract.

That you still see nothing wrong with what you've said and continue to defend your use of disablist slurs says a lot about you. You said someone "deserves" disablist slurs. Openly and with full cognisance of the facts.

If it was my decision you'd be banned.
 
Keep digging that hole.

WTF are you still doing here? you were shown through. Beat it!

This thread, and its instigator, is more tragic than annoying i think. No point trying to argue with him.

No brains, no brawns. Madre mia.

For the last time:

Are you a man of your word?:p If you are - thank fook! I really don't need hysterical hypocrites trying to "engage me"... :rolleyes: (We'll see...:hmm:)

Do you really not understand what you did? Insult maomao if you want. That's between you and him. But you used vile disablist language to do it. This was explained very clearly to you. You refused to retract.

That you still see nothing wrong with what you've said and continue to defend your use of disablist slurs says a lot about you. You said someone "deserves" disablist slurs. Openly and with full cognisance of the facts.

If it was my decision you'd be banned.

In my neck of the woods none of this would have been allowed. You and your lot would have long been banned.

I don't start this shit, I defend myself - and I am the only one attacked, you are ALWAYS silent when I am attacked, so FUCK YOU!!!!!
 
For fuck sake. Post reported. And that's something I never do. You are utterly vile.

Petty and nasty, shrivelled up soul - YOU are utterly disgusting!!! You have no idea what FAIR PLAY MEANS!!!

WHEN YOU STAND UP IN DEFENCE OF THE ATTACKED, ONLY THEN DO YOU HAVE ANY MORAL VALUE!!!!

Get a load of that, if you can and dare!!!
 
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