Is America burning? (Black Lives Matter protests, civil unrest and riots 2020)

[8ball]

I don't know how far it will go. You could very well be right. I do know that the burden of proof is lower in civil courts than in criminal courts. It probably comes down to who the judge turns out to be. They pulled a really nasty judge with the criminal case.

The idea that justice is better settled by setting a lower burden of proof strikes me as more than a little dodgy.

 

[Raheem]

The idea that justice is better settled by setting a lower burden of proof strikes me as more than a little dodgy.

A lower burden of proof when it's money rather than life and liberty at stake might not be unreasonable.

 

[8ball]

A lower burden of proof when it's money rather than life and liberty at stake might not be unreasonable.

So the less there is at stake, the more shaky we should be about veracity?

Maybe sue someone for a few meals at a restaurant and get someone to roll a dice, whereas for a prize of, say, a car, it gets settled with a few bouts of arm wresting?

 

[Nylock]

The idea that justice is better settled by setting a lower burden of proof strikes me as more than a little dodgy.

Civil court burden of proof is less pedantic than criminal. That doesn't mean that it's non existent though. It's still tough going pursuing a civil case.

 

[Raheem]

So the less there is at stake, the more shaky we should be about veracity?

Absolutely. We cross the road casually everyday, but we'd behave differently if we knew if were mined.

And it's also not really that "balance of probabilities" is shaky, it's that "beyond reasonable doubt" is a high bar.

 

[8ball]

Absolutely. We cross the road casually everyday, but we'd behave differently if we knew if were mined.

And it's also not really that "balance of probabilities" is shaky, it's that "beyond reasonable doubt" is a high bar.

This makes less than no sense.

But since the discussion is of no consequence anyway I am willing to accept two slices of pizza and a Cornetto in recompense.

 

[8ball]

Civil court burden of proof is less pedantic than criminal. That doesn't mean that it's non existent though. It's still tough going pursuing a civil case.

Will def be tough going in this case.

 

[Raheem]

This makes less than no sense.

But since the discussion is of no consequence anyway I am willing to accept two slices of pizza and a Cornetto in recompense.

I'll give you the food. But it's pity, not recompense.

 

[8ball]

I'll give you the food. But it's pity, not recompense.

Done, so long as there’s no pineapple.

 

[Raheem]

Done, so long as there’s no pineapple.

There's pineapple. Sorry, but the jury found reasonable doubt that you'd be opposed to fruit on a pizza. Would have been different in a civil trial, but hey-ho.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

The idea that justice is better settled by setting a lower burden of proof strikes me as more than a little dodgy.

I probably could have better phrased that. The burden of proof is different because they don't have to prove criminal intent in a civil case. They have to prove "reckless disregard for life." There's really no dispute that he killed two people. The dispute in the criminal case was if he showed up with the intent of murdering someone. They don't have to prove that here, only that he showed a reckless disregard. If you watched any of the criminal case, IMHO the judge committed misconduct when he directed the jury what verdict to come back with. That strikes me as more than a little dodgy.

 

[8ball]

I probably could have better phrased that. The burden of proof is different because they don't have to prove criminal intent in a civil case. They have to prove "reckless disregard for life." There's really no dispute that he killed two people. The dispute in the criminal case was if he showed up with the intent of murdering someone. They don't have to prove that here, only that he showed a reckless disregard. If you watched any of the criminal case, IMHO the judge committed misconduct when he directed the jury what verdict to come back with. That strikes me as more than a little dodgy.

That’s entirely normal procedure.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

That’s entirely normal procedure.

You'll have to elaborate on that a bit more for me.

 

[8ball]

You'll have to elaborate on that a bit more for me.

Maybe I misinterpreted.
Can you elaborate on why you think the judge committed misconduct?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Maybe I misinterpreted.
Can you elaborate on why you think the judge committed misconduct?

When he sent the jury off to deliberate, he basically said that they should come back with an acquittal, and if they didn't, he'd throw out the verdict and impose his own. That's really irregular and usually only happens for serious misconduct either in the jury or by the lawyers. During the trial, he was really hostile to the prosecution and threw out a lot of their evidence, but it was within the usual standards. That last bit wasn't.

 

[8ball]

When he sent the jury off to deliberate, he basically said that they should come back with an acquittal, and if they didn't, he'd throw out the verdict and impose his own. That's really irregular and usually only happens for serious misconduct either in the jury or by the lawyers. During the trial, he was really hostile to the prosecution and threw out a lot of their evidence, but it was within the usual standards. That last bit wasn't.

Ah, right. I wasn’t sure whether you just meant he committed misconduct by virtue of directing the jury.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Ah, right. I wasn’t sure whether you just meant he committed misconduct by virtue of directing the jury.

Giving instructions to the jury is normal and expected. Telling them what verdict to come back with isn't.

 

[8ball]

Giving instructions to the jury is normal and expected. Telling them what verdict to come back with isn't.

The latter is normal in cases where the judge perceives the facts to match the charge precisely (or otherwise). Threatening to throw out the jury’s verdict sounds unusual.

 

[yield]

Dunno where to put this, but cops just killed someone at the Atlanta forest:

Georgia trooper stable after being shot, protester killed near controversial 'Cop City' police facility site

A Georgia State Patrol trooper was shot and a protestor was killed during a confrontation near the site of the controversial "Cop City" Atlanta Police Department training facility on Wednesday, the Georgia Department of Public Safety confirmed.

www.fox5atlanta.com

It's Going Down (@igd_news@kolektiva.social)

Attached: 3 images "Today the police shot and killed a protester in Weelaunee Forest. Dozens of heavily armed DeKalb Police, Atlanta Police and Georgia State police shut down Weelaunee People’s Park and nearby streets before entering the tree line with guns drawn and heavy machinery poised to...

kolektiva.social

Environmentalist Manuel Esteban Paez Terán’s death is part of a disturbing trend | Steven Donziger

What happened in Atlanta is clearly part of a dangerous trend of US law enforcement attacking climate leaders

www.theguardian.com

More info

 

[hitmouse]

Environmentalist Manuel Esteban Paez Terán’s death is part of a disturbing trend | Steven Donziger

What happened in Atlanta is clearly part of a dangerous trend of US law enforcement attacking climate leaders

www.theguardian.com

More info

Wait, I just realised who the author of that article is - for those who don't recognise the name Steven Donziger:

This lawyer should be world-famous for his battle with Chevron – but he’s in jail | Erin Brockovich

Chevron is accused of polluting the Amazon for 26 years. The only people who’ve paid the price are a human rights lawyer and those whose land was poisoned

www.theguardian.com

Natasha Lennard is usually good as well:

The Crackdown on Cop City Protesters Is So Brutal Because of the Movement's Success

Protesters against the construction in Atlanta of a giant police training facility dubbed Cop City are facing police attacks and terrorism charges.

theintercept.com

(paywall-busting version)
eta, from that Intercept article:

The 19 protesters are being charged under a Georgia law passed in 2017, which, according to the Republican state senator who introduced the bill, was intended to combat cases like the Boston Marathon bombing, Dylann Roof’s massacre of nine Black churchgoers in Charleston, South Carolina, and the Orlando Pulse nightclub shooting.
“During legislative debate over this law, the concern was raised that as written, the law was so broad that it could be used to prosecute Black Lives Matter activists blocking the highway as terrorists. The response was simply that prosecutors wouldn’t do that,” Kautz told me. “There are similar laws passed in many other states, and we believe that the existence of these laws on the books is a threat to democracy and the right to protest.”
The Georgia law is exceedingly broad. Domestic terrorism under the statute includes the destruction or disabling of ill-defined “critical infrastructure,” which can be publicly or privately owned, or “a state or government facility” with the intention to “alter, change, or coerce the policy of the government” or “affect the conduct of the government” by use of “destructive devices.” What counts as critical infrastructure here? A bank branch window? A police vehicle? Bulldozers deployed to raze the forest? What is a destructive device? A rock? A firework? And is not a huge swathe of activism the attempt to coerce a government to change policies?

Police affidavits on the arrest warrants of forest defenders facing domestic terror charges include the following as alleged examples of terrorist activity: “criminally trespassing on posted land,” “sleeping in the forest,” “sleeping in a hammock with another defendant,” being “known members” of “a prison abolitionist movement,” and aligning themselves with Defend the Atlanta Forest by “occupying a tree house while wearing a gas mask and camouflage clothing.”

 

[hitmouse]

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

View attachment 362060

It sounds like SA Long fell down and go boom.

That's some serious overcharging there. I doubt if it'll make it to court.

 

[hitmouse]

It sounds like SA Long fell down and go boom.

That's some serious overcharging there. I doubt if it'll make it to court.

Yeah, definitely seems like charging as a method of intimidation/getting scary headlines more than with the expectation of actually getting a conviction.

 

[hitmouse]

Crossposting here:
Atlanta PD originally said there was no body camera footage, but have now released some:

Officer in Cop City Bodycam Footage Suggests Fellow Cop Was Shot by Friendly Fire

Footage from the aftermath of a deadly police raid on anti-Cop City protesters shows an Atlanta cop asking, “They shoot their own man?”

theintercept.com

The footage appears to show officers asking whether the state trooper who had been shot was wounded by one of his own.

“You fucked your own officer up,” one Atlanta Police Department officer is heard saying in the footage released Wednesday. He later walks up to two other officers and asks, “They shoot their own man?”

 

[DaveCinzano]

Crossposting here:
Atlanta PD originally said there was no body camera footage, but have now released some:

Officer in Cop City Bodycam Footage Suggests Fellow Cop Was Shot by Friendly Fire

Footage from the aftermath of a deadly police raid on anti-Cop City protesters shows an Atlanta cop asking, “They shoot their own man?”

theintercept.com

It's just thirty-pounds-and-a-packed-lunch bullshit dragged out to its inevitable conclusion - full spectrum piggy press office ‘weapons cache (i.e. party poppers & craft scissors) seized’ pork pies, with extreme prejudice

 

[krtek a houby]

Past and present about to collide

Emmett Till relative’s lawsuit seeks to serve white woman’s arrest warrant

This will, undoubtedly, inflame current tensions. Is it the right thing to do?

Reckon so. The ultimate "Karen", you could argue, deserves to be finally brought to justice. At her advanced age, probably wouldnt be calling for a harsh sentence. But it would be healing if she could acknowledge her actions, at the least.

 

[emanymton]

Crossposting here:
Atlanta PD originally said there was no body camera footage, but have now released some:

Officer in Cop City Bodycam Footage Suggests Fellow Cop Was Shot by Friendly Fire

Footage from the aftermath of a deadly police raid on anti-Cop City protesters shows an Atlanta cop asking, “They shoot their own man?”

theintercept.com

Can see why they need that training facility then.

 

[hitmouse]

Activists from the Altanta forest campaign are expecting to be hit with racketeering charges:

Atlanta Activists Say Prosecutors Plan to Indict them on RICO Charges - UNICORN RIOT

Atlanta, GA – Community organizations involved in the ongoing campaign to defend the South River Forest outside Atlanta, Georgia and ‘Stop Cop City’ say state prosecutors are planning on releasing indictments in the coming weeks charging them as a “criminal organization” under RICO statutes. The...

unicornriot.ninja

 

[Yossarian]

Black Lives Matter protesters kettled by the NYPD in June 2020 are getting $21,500 each

New York City Said It Will Pay $21,500 Each To Protesters Who Were Kettled And Beaten By Police During Black Lives Matter Demonstrations

Human Rights Watch said the NYPD's violent conduct during the June 4, 2020, protest in the Bronx amounted to "serious violations of international human rights law."

www.buzzfeednews.com

 

[hitmouse]

Filth raided the Atlanta forest again last night, 30 people detained:

Police Raid Atlanta Forest After 'Cop City' Opponents Overrun Security Post - UNICORN RIOT

Dekalb County, GA — At least 30 people were arrested on Sunday evening in the South River Forest during a ‘week of action’ music festival taking place near the location of the proposed controversial ‘Cop City’ facility. UPDATE: 3/6/23 — According to the Atlanta Police Department press release...

unicornriot.ninja

eta blimey, the activities that led up to the raid do seem quite full-on tbf:

Cop City Finds Out

On March 5th, during the week of action in defense of the Weelaunee Forest and against cop city, activists held forest defense workshops and a music festival attended by over 800 people. That evening a large crew of forest defenders gathered and marched to the cop city construction site. Forest...

kolektiva.media