Is America burning? (Black Lives Matter protests, civil unrest and riots 2020)

[Cid]

Good. Then we agree. Food and exercise in general is necessary, but not to excess.

I honestly couldn’t give a toss how ripped they get or what they eat. It’s the tiniest aspect of the problems with US prisons.

 

[NoXion]

I honestly couldn’t give a toss how ripped they get or what they eat. It’s the tiniest aspect of the problems with US prisons.

Part of the problem being that US federal prisons have been allowed to become fitness and recruitment centres for racist gangs. They wouldn't have fucking Olympic-rated equipment otherwise.

 

[Cid]

Part of the problem being that US federal prisons have been allowed to become fitness and recruitment centres for racist gangs. They wouldn't have fucking Olympic-rated equipment otherwise.

I know what the problems are. Go back and read your original post in this string... it reads like you think the solution is just telling prisoners to stick to push-ups and eating less.

 

[petee]

Yes, it's quite clear why the Police were so quick to put the body cam footage out there.
I suppose the question remains; what no-lethal options to stopping the stabbing were open to the cop in that very fast moving situation?

this is where you would use the tazer. full disclosure, i know nothing of how accurate they are nor at what distance they're accurate.

 

[Yossarian]

Part of the problem being that US federal prisons have been allowed to become fitness and recruitment centres for racist gangs. They wouldn't have fucking Olympic-rated equipment otherwise.

Where do they have Olympic-rated equipment? A 1996 law banned the federal Bureau of Prisons from buying weightlifting equipment after scare stories spread about muscular super-prisoners. Most states brought in similar bans of their own, so any remaining weight equipment in prisons is usually decrepit.

The lack of free weights and weight machines hasn’t completely prevented prisoners from packing on “intimidating muscles,” as Justice Scalia calls them. In the absence of iron to pump, they turn to whatever heavy items they can find. Resourceful prisoners check out books from the library for the sole purposes of lifting them. Those who work in the mess hall can hoist large pots full of water. They do pull-ups from the rails of their bunk beds, which are sometimes stacked three- or even four-high in the crowded California penitentiaries.

State prisons, which typically have tighter budgets, sometimes have no exercise equipment at all. Most facilities do, however, stock a selection of yoga and meditation videos.

Do prison inmates spend all their time lifting weights?

The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that crowding at California prisons constitutes cruel and unusual punishment, and ordered the state to reduce the...

slate.com

 

[Mation]

I couldn't bear to look at news of the Chauvin verdict, only hearing about it on another thread on here. The whole thing. That he can appeal. That I wasn't at all sure that he'd be convicted. It's too much.

Good. Then we agree. Food and exercise in general is necessary, but not to excess.

This is a really weird angle.

Do you need to pursue it here?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

And for some bonkers reason they're all allowed heavy enough exercise equipment that some prisoners are bigger than the guards (I also wonder what the hell they're eating; other prisoners' rations?!). That's always seemed so fucking crazy to me; it's one thing to allow convicts to exercise, but it's quite another to let them bulk up into Mr frigging Universe. Why can't they just do push ups and jog around the yard?

In most prisons the food is that grey, institutional fare that you have to either be criminal or insane to eat. If you have enough money in your account, you can shop the commissary, but its mostly long shelf-life junk food like ramen and chips. This leads to a whole genre of prison food combinations you'd never see in the wild, except for people who have been in prison. Things like mashed potatoes made from potato chips, and nachos made out of Fritos, canned tuna and olives and Velveeta, and burritos made out of Doritos and beef jerky. None of it is what you'd call "healthy."

 

[Cid]

In most prisons the food is that grey, institutional fare that you have to either be criminal or insane to eat. If you have enough money in your account, you can shop the commissary, but its mostly long shelf-life junk food like ramen and chips. This leads to a whole genre of prison food combinations you'd never see in the wild, except for people who have been in prison. Things like mashed potatoes made from potato chips, and nachos made out of Fritos, canned tuna and olives and Velveeta, and burritos made out of Doritos and beef jerky. None of it is what you'd call "healthy."

Anyone who wants to know how prison food can form a part of prisoner mistreatment should google ‘nutraloaf’.

 

[Serge Forward]

Part of the problem being that US federal prisons have been allowed to become fitness and recruitment centres for racist gangs. They wouldn't have fucking Olympic-rated equipment otherwise.

Admit it, you're just shilling for Dynamic Tension in prisons, aren't you

 

[AmateurAgitator]

This is what I was referring to regarding Nancy Pelosi:

 

[Orang Utan]

Thank you for serving us

 

[David Clapson]

it's quite another to let them bulk up into Mr frigging Universe.

I unignored you to read your latest bit of cluelessness. Gym equipment is unnecessary for bulking up. The weight of the body provides ample resistance. Prisoners in solitary with no gym access have demonstrated this a million times. Instead of posting nonsense, why not spend your time googling 'prison workout'?

 

[Yossarian]

lf it wasn't for the 17-year-old who videoed the incident, George Floyd's death might have been recorded as just another case of an intoxicated forger who was assisted by officers after suffering an unfortunate medical emergency while resisting arrest, as the initial statement from police claimed.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

lf it wasn't for the 17-year-old who videoed the incident, George Floyd's death might have been recorded as just another case of an intoxicated forger who was assisted by officers after suffering an unfortunate medical emergency while resisting arrest, as the initial statement from police claimed.

View attachment 264315

Darnella Frazier, a brave, heroic person.

 

[David Clapson]

The tasing of Carl Andersen is going viral again. In 2019 he was in hospital at his baby daughter's bedside. A detective demanded his phone without explaining why. He refused, so he was tased. The shocker is that he's white.

Video shows unarmed Marine veteran tased by police in his daughter's hospital room

'You guys are out of control'

taskandpurpose.com

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

This case is getting some attention too:

Colorado district attorney calls for criminal review after police arrest 73-year-old woman with dementia and break her arm - CBS News

This woman weighed 80s pounds and plainly didn't understand what was going on.

 

[8ball]

I unignored you to read your latest bit of cluelessness. Gym equipment is unnecessary for bulking up. The weight of the body provides ample resistance. Prisoners in solitary with no gym access have demonstrated this a million times. Instead of posting nonsense, why not spend your time googling 'prison workout'?

Didn’t California get rid of all the weights from their prison gyms a couple of decades ago? Not sure how it panned out...

 

[Cid]

Didn’t California get rid of all the weights from their prison gyms a couple of decades ago? Not sure how it panned out...

See Yossarian 's post a little upthread.

Where do they have Olympic-rated equipment? A 1996 law banned the federal Bureau of Prisons from buying weightlifting equipment after scare stories spread about muscular super-prisoners. Most states brought in similar bans of their own, so any remaining weight equipment in prisons is usually decrepit.

Do prison inmates spend all their time lifting weights?

The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that crowding at California prisons constitutes cruel and unusual punishment, and ordered the state to reduce the...

slate.com

 

[8ball]

See Yossarian 's post a little upthread.

Yeah, hadn’t got that far. Though still haven’t got as far aa seeing how it panned out. California’s decision was a bit after the quoted Federal changes.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

This case is getting some attention too:

Colorado district attorney calls for criminal review after police arrest 73-year-old woman with dementia and break her arm - CBS News

This woman weighed 80s pounds and plainly didn't understand what was going on.

And all she was accused of was minor shoplifting.

 

[David Clapson]

And she put the goods back when the staff asked her to.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

And all she was accused of was minor shoplifting.

$13 and change.

 

[David Clapson]

Whenever the US has a big race relations story, the African-American community fields a huge number of very impressive commentators and spokespeople and leaders. They're so articulate and balanced and professional and effective. Where are their counterparts in the UK? With just a handful of exceptions, they're hopeless, IMHO. I don't know whether anyone else will agree with me. But if I'm right, what are the root causes? I've met lots of heavyweight intellectuals and deep thinkers in the Black-British community. Maybe our media sabotages them, or there's too much racism for them to challenge it....

 

[Duncan2]

Are the other cops involved accessories to murder?

just catching up with this thread.Re Brogdale's question even one of Chauvin's colleagues suggested to him (four minutes or so into the 9.27) hat it might be a good time to roll him (George Floyd) on his side now.To which Chauvin replied " let him be ".Apart from that I did wonder myself why only Chauvin was arrested and processed.


Having now caught up with Ann O Neemus' post it looks like the other two cops are in fact facing charges of some kind.

 

[A380]

None. Tasers are only effective around 50% of the time, and with so many gun carriers in the US, police procedures generally require that they're only used to try and stop deadly force when the perpetrator is covered by a second officer with a gun.

A UK cop would not have been able to stop the girl in pink being fatally stabbed. There was about 3 seconds to react and deploy a weapon. Neither a baton nor pepper spray would have been effective.

Depends what kind of rozzer turned up.

Standard response officer no taser. Their pepper spray wouldn’t work quickly enough and in a close in stabbing like that temporarily removing eyesight from the subject wouldn’t mitigate the immediate risk of injuries to the injured party. Baton strikes ( hitting the girl with a big lump of metal several times) might work, but not if she stayed focused on stabbing the other girl; most people in the subject's position would stay focused on their initial target for the first strike or two. ‘Best option’ maybe a big spray of pepper spray as the cowardly pig goes for a body check to move the subject away from the victim. done hoping that the stabbing the cop would take would land on the body armour rather that neck face or femoral artery. The officer would know they were going to get cut but would hope their body weight would move the subject away from the victim. My guess 8/9 out of 10 uk cops (even the racist ones) would go for that option in an immediate threats to life job like this. I’d guess this tactic would have maybe a 70% chance of saving the victim’s life.

Taser only old bill ( 1 in about 10 now depending on where you are). Give the taser a go. It will hit effectively about 60 % of the time outdoors and the subjects clothes don’t look too bulky. It will stop her if it works but dibble still will need to be ready to follow up with a body check if it doesn’t work.

UK ARV turns up with authority to arm- the victim would be very lucky in timings but it does happen sometimes and people have been saved from death by stabbing occasionally. Disregard taser given the uncertainty. Most likely option the fat pig with the baton gun ( attenuated energy projectile) would probably try and peg the girl with the knife with a 70:80 % ? chance that would stop her and save the other girl’s life, and if it didn’t the one with the G36 would shoot her with a live round. However even with the advanced trauma equipment and training the ARV rozzers would then deploy the chances are that if you get shot with a 5.56 round you will die.

So in the UK more likely the girl being attacked would have died. The UK rozzers in all but the ARV case would also have most likely taken injuries, but that’s what they get paid for. And of course there would be video of a cop hitting the girl with a baton, body checking a child, tasering her, shooting her with a rubber bullet or shooting her dead.

 

[Cid]

I’m not really sure about the shooting situation. I mean 100% seems justifiable in the context of how US policing works... but not sure about these counterfactuals. An attack with a knife is really not guaranteed to do what the attacker intends, and if it does hit it is very, very far from being a 100% chance of death.

The second issue is that it’s a really fucking risky situation to be shooting in. This is a residential area and the attacker is almost on top of her victim. Role of the dice/less skilled officer and this is ‘two teens shot’.

I dunno - I suppose in the UK a... er... good? Effective? Officer would have moved in much more quickly rather than maintaining distance as this guy does. Different approaches. But it is undoubtedly a hellish scenario to find yourself having to respond to.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I’m not really sure about the shooting situation. I mean 100% seems justifiable in the context of how US policing works... but not sure about these counterfactuals. An attack with a knife is really not guaranteed to do what the attacker intends, and if it does hit it is very, very far from being a 100% chance of death.

If someone you care about is being attacked by someone stabbing a knife with such ferocity as this girl was, and there was a cop with a gun aimed at her and they didn't fire cos it's not 100% the knife would kill, doesn't sound particularly acceptable to me.

 

[Yossarian]

Having now caught up with Ann O Neemus' post it looks like the other two cops are in fact facing charges of some kind.

The other three cops at the scene are charged with aiding and abetting second-degree murder and aiding and abetting second-degree manslaughter and are expected to go on trial together in August.

Convictions for all three now seem very likely. J. Alexander Kueng, a 26-year-old Black officer who working his third-ever shift, was largely trained by Chauvin and might get the lightest sentence, but as his own sister says, "I don’t care if it was his third day at work or not. He knows right from wrong.”

The Black Officer Who Detained George Floyd Had Pledged to Fix the Police (Published 2020)

Alex Kueng is one of four former officers accused of crimes in the killing of Mr. Floyd, which happened on his third shift. His decision to join the force had frayed friendships.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Cid]

If someone you care about is being attacked by someone stabbing a knife with such ferocity as this girl was, and there was a cop with a gun aimed at her and they didn't fire cos it's not 100% the knife would kill, doesn't sound particularly acceptable to me.

Again, I don’t think I really have any problems with how this cop reacted. I’m just saying I think the counterfactuals with how it would play out in the UK are making some major assumptions. And as I said in the next paragraph this is an extremely risky way of taking out someone who’s basically on top of someone else. Though I think hollow points are pretty standard in US policing which would mitigate that somewhat (definitely not without their own issues mind).

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Again, I don’t think I really have any problems with how this cop reacted. I’m just saying I think the counterfactuals with how it would play out in the UK are making some major assumptions. And as I said in the next paragraph this is an extremely risky way of taking out someone who’s basically on top of someone else. Though I think hollow points are pretty standard in US policing which would mitigate that somewhat.

Fair enough. In the UK the chances of a rozzer having a gun in such a situation is near-enough zero, so fairly moot points anyway.