Ian Tomlinson CPS verdict: "no realistic prospect of conviction"

[detective-boy]

so how does your stereotyping of urban posters compare to this?

I don't stereotype Urban posters ... I identify a particular subset (The Collective). If you actually bothered to read what I post you would know that I regularly bemoan the fact that the gobbiness and bullying of the members of the Collective causes huge numbers of posters to avoid posting with their own opinions (if they happen not to align with Collective monothought and the views of the Circle Jerk) because they know they'll get flamed ... as evidenced by the PMs I get every time I take them on.

If I really did stereotype ALL Urban posters as the Collective do you really think I'd waste my time here?

 

[detective-boy]

Implying now that those who you were saying last week are homophobic...

It hurts when you realise the truth, doesn't it?

(And where am I implying that you are fucking "racists". Cunt.)

(If you don't want to be called a cunt, don't post like one. Simples.)

 

[tarannau]

I think you're misrepresenting my post there DB. I note that you weren't able to comment on your own defective logic or stupid comparison between police officers and black youth.

Still, I wouldn't want to divert you from your pattern of hypocrisy and general stupidity. Will you at least concede that it's more understandable/justifiable to make generalisations about a group that choose to take up a certain profession rather than generalise about people based solely on skin colour?

I realise this may come difficult to you, but a little honesty and ability to engage with posts correctly would be appreciated. Fucking around with posts like that is a reportable offence you know.

 

[detective-boy]

But they also do alot of bad stuff, you talk like it's a rare occasion, but it's not, not from what I've seen.

I've seen a million times more interactions between the police and citizens than you have. I've partaken in many myself. I have far more data on which to draw a conclusion than you. Why is your conclusion supposed to be more valid than mine? Why will you not accept that the situation may not be as you have seen it on your relatively very limited experience?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

(If you don't want to be called a cunt, don't post like one. Simples.)

tbf, I tend to think of people who end their posts with simples as cun...

 

[detective-boy]

... but where would you draw the line in what you're prepared to do to carry out that job.

At the point where it did not align with the democratically expressed will of the people and where it varied from the UKs oath of allegiance as a police officer. Which is a million miles away from anything we have here.

If you actually walked away from the hyperbole, exaggeration and total lies that are told about policing, and actually engaged with the issues that DO exist then you may actually make a difference. But whilst you portray a situation that is patently untrue you will be treated like the idiots you are and you will be ignored. Sadly that means that you (who are actually motivated to make a difference and to challenge the actions of the State) have no impact on the things that DO need to be addressed.

 

[Citizen66]

If you actually watch the video you'll see that there is a significant difference between the force used by the other two (which basicaly consists of restraining the prisoner on the ground) and by him (which consists of repeated punches to the area of the head). The jury acquitted the other two, presumably on the basis that they found no joint enterprise. I would hope that they will be disciplined for failing to report the excessive use of force as it appears (a) they could not have been unaware of the nature of the force being used and (b) it was so grossly excessive that they could not realisitically argue that it was justifiable in the circumstances.

You've missed out the bit that prior to the footage emerging the three officers told a pack of lies in order to get the victim charged with an offence. Isn't that perjury?

 

[detective-boy]

erm, I've not once mentioned Oxford Street in this thread, nor would I seeing as I wasn't at that particular demo, so feel free to expand on exactly how this photo pwns me?

I'm so terribly sorry ... it was Trafalgar Square, not Oxford Street you referred to ...

Now perhaps you'd care to explain how this post from a "regular legal observer" doesn't pwn you ...

This is easily provably untrue. e.g.

(Yes, there are cops without numbers in that photo, no pedant points available.)

if you want to call me a liar ...

I don't want to call you a liar - I am sure you have seen officers on some occasions without numbers but you are exaggerating, you are extending your own personal experience to a massive generalisation it simply doesn't justify and you are claiming that it is "evidence" of a policy which simply does not exist.

Like I have said dozens of times before: keep it in proportion and people will have to listen to you (eventually). Exaggerate wildly and expect to get treated like a fool and ignored.

 

[detective-boy]

He didn't take firm action because if he had then the officers involved would almost certainly have come out and pointed out that they'd been ordered not to wear their numbers, and that this is a longstanding situation not a one off... or do you have a better explanation?

He didn't take firm action beause he's crap. He was selected by Boris and Kit Malthouse because they wanted someone who'd do what they were told, not because he was likely to deal robustly with the issues that need dealing with (like the issue of a significant minority of officers, particularly, it would appear, amongst the TSG having acquired the habit of not wearing, or obscuring, their numbers - something which I have long acknowledged and suggested should be dealt with).

They could not have pointed to any 'order' not to wear their numbers as (a) there is no written order to that effect (quite the contrary) and (b) any oral order from a supervisor would be unlawful and would render the supervisor liable to disciplinary proceedings too.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I've seen a million times more interactions between the police and citizens than you have. I've partaken in many myself. I have far more data on which to draw a conclusion than you. Why is your conclusion supposed to be more valid than mine? Why will you not accept that the situation may not be as you have seen it on your relatively very limited experience?

Could it not be possible what with having been a senior cop, that the lower ranks behaved themselves in your presence? Even when you started they could have behaved better as they saw that you were ambitious and one day going to be their boss?

You have stated that you haven't worked closely with the TSG, it is this department that seems to cause the most problems. Certainly the only time I have ever been hit by a copper was by a TSG with no numbers showing. I was hit with a shield in a wholly unprovoked attack whilst mooching along very much in the manner of Mr. Tomlinson.

 

[detective-boy]

I think you're misrepresenting my post there DB. I note that you weren't able to comment on your own defective logic or stupid comparison between police officers and black youth.

I wasn't making a "comparison between police officers and black youth" you fucking idiot. I was simply providing another example of what would be a fuckwitted generalisation.

Will you at least concede that it's more understandable/justifiable to make generalisations about a group that choose to take up a certain profession rather than generalise about people based solely on skin colour?

No. Only a prejudiced cunt would attempt to justify ANY stereotyping, on the basis of ANY characteristic is the action.

Will you now at least concede that you are a prejudiced cunt?

Fucking around with posts like that is a reportable offence you know.

As you perfectly well know, the use of strikethorugh to "correct" a post to make a point is commonly used here. If you really think it's a fucking banning offence, go fucking report it.

But expect to be called a "grass" by the rest of the Collective ...

 

[detective-boy]

tbf, I tend to think of people who end their posts with simples as cun...

That is actually a fair point ...

 

[detective-boy]

You've missed out the bit that prior to the footage emerging the three officers told a pack of lies in order to get the victim charged with an offence. Isn't that perjury?

I have far too little information about what led up to the arrest to know whether or not that statement is true. The simple fact that an officer has been convicted (and two others charged but acquitted) in connection with the use of excessive force in making an arrest does not, in and of itself, mean that the actual making of the arrest in the first place was unlawful and, even less, that the person assaulted was not guilty of some offence leading to their arrest.

Perjury is only committed when false evidence is deliberately given on oath. I do not know whether the officers gave evidence on oath in their own defence and, if they did, I do not know what it was.

 

[detective-boy]

Could it not be possible what with having been a senior cop, that the lower ranks behaved themselves in your presence?

So, seeing as Chief Inspectors and Superintendents would be present on the ground, and as they knew officers of at least the rank of Assistant Commissioner were viewing live footage of events, why would officers not be wearing numbers at G20?

There is a valid point about officers, particularly on the TSG, apparently not wearing numbers to a significant extent. And about their supervisors failing to robustly address the issue. But it is nowhere near as widespread as is being suggested. And it is definitely not any sort of official policy.

 

[editor]

Could we have a little less of this all round please?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

So, seeing as Chief Inspectors and Superintendents would be present on the ground, and as they knew officers of at least the rank of Assistant Commissioner were viewing live footage of events, why would officers not be wearing numbers at G20?

Quite possibly because the TSG knew that none of these top bods would step in and tell the sergeants or inspectors to sort their men out whilst in the field. Don't want to knock the moral of the storm troopers prior to the big kick off and all that?

There is a valid point about officers, particularly on the TSG, apparently not wearing numbers to a significant extent. And about their supervisors failing to robustly address the issue. But it is nowhere near as widespread as is being suggested. And it is definitely not any sort of official policy.

It's not that common in everyday situations, where it does seem common is on protests. As many who have been on a protest that has turned ugly can testify, there are regular cops acting in a reasonable manner, easily identifiable. Then something happens and they are replaced with the masked, tooled up cops with no id visible, these are the ones who lay in to the crowds, often creating the disorder that they are there to police.

 

[xes]

But whilst you portray a situation that is patently untrue you will be treated like the idiots you are and you will be ignored. .

What is patently untrue about what i wrote? The police ARE an arm of goverment, a goverment who are hellbent on some form of mass control. I would never be able to uphold these "laws" that the police "uphold" as it is wrong. Pure and simple. You may think that this is the expressed will of the people. But I ask you, what person wants to be controlled to such an extent? I've never met one who agrees with the ammount of "power" the police are given over the people they are supposed to be protecting. The goverment have turned everyone into criminals, and the police are the tool which allows this to be. What is untrue about that? Do let me know.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Quite possibly because the TSG knew that none of these top bods would step in and tell the sergeants or inspectors to sort their men out whilst in the field. Don't want to knock the moral of the storm troopers prior to the big kick off and all that?



It's not that common in everyday situations, where it does seem common is on protests. As many who have been on a protest that has turned ugly can testify, there are regular cops acting in a reasonable manner, easily identifiable. Then something happens and they are replaced with the masked, tooled up cops with no id visible, these are the ones who lay in to the crowds, often creating the disorder that they are there to police.

This ^^

All the time.

 

[Pickman's model]

If I really did stereotype ALL Urban posters as the Collective do you really think I'd waste my time here?

yes. you're that sort of person. do you think you use your time here profitably now?

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

So, seeing as Chief Inspectors and Superintendents would be present on the ground, and as they knew officers of at least the rank of Assistant Commissioner were viewing live footage of events, why would officers not be wearing numbers at G20?

There is a valid point about officers, particularly on the TSG, apparently not wearing numbers to a significant extent. And about their supervisors failing to robustly address the issue. But it is nowhere near as widespread as is being suggested. And it is definitely not any sort of official policy.

A senior officer at G20 not wearing a number....

standing next to another officer not wearing a number....

 

[Pickman's model]

At the point where it did not align with the democratically expressed will of the people and where it varied from the UKs oath of allegiance as a police officer.

so YOU know what the 'democratically expressed will of the people is'? please elaborate on how you know that and how it is not at variance with the swearing allegiance not to the people but to some unelected biddy of german descent.

 

[Pickman's model]

A senior officer at G20 not wearing a number....

standing next to another officer not wearing a number....

oh for fuck's sake. can't you see the chief super has a fucking name badge on?

you may wish to consult this: http://www.met.police.uk/about/ranks.htm

incidently, by his helmet the cop without any numbers should be from haringey & is level 2 not tsg

 

[tarannau]

I wasn't making a "comparison between police officers and black youth" you fucking idiot. I was simply providing another example of what would be a fuckwitted generalisation.


No. Only a prejudiced cunt would attempt to justify ANY stereotyping, on the basis of ANY characteristic is the action.

Will you now at least concede that you are a prejudiced cunt?


As you perfectly well know, the use of strikethorugh to "correct" a post to make a point is commonly used here. If you really think it's a fucking banning offence, go fucking report it.

But expect to be called a "grass" by the rest of the Collective ...

Jesus, you really are more than a little dense aren't you? Every time your defective logic is questioned you turn into a gibbering, aggressive idiot. It's what morons tend to do when they haven't got a decent answer, swearing and jumping up and down to obfuscate

By all means feel free to show me where I stereotype and exhibit prejudice about the police in the fashion you're hysterically going on about. I may have reservations about the general culture of the police and believe that there are far more bad apples than you'll admit, but I'm usually fairly measured - more MCAB (most) than ACAB. That's a view shaped by personal experience and seeing police in action far too often. I'd also say my views are shared by a hefty proportion the BME population - are you always so quick to dismiss those concerns as stereotyped, prejudiced or simply to shout abuse?

I don't think I've ever said all cops are evil, nor come over all Pickmans' about it. Indeed I'll even count a few policemen as my friends over the years. I wouldn't include you in that group mind - because you're an aggressive, jumped up pillock with all the empathy and appeal of a skunk's gonads. it's the way that you win hearts and minds that really appeals, oh and the giant hypocrisy and inability to apologise. You're a winning human being for sure.

 

[Pickman's model]

You're a whining human being for sure.

corrected for you

 

[tarannau]

Still, you've got to love the idea that if you're placing two groups directly next to each other in a sentence contrasting their treatment, you're not effectively 'comparing' them, you're simply providing another example.

Fuck me, with logic like that it's wonder he can tie his shoelaces in the morning. The stunning thing is that he still believes he has a fair point and this is a reasonable thought process, let alone that it gives him a right to swear blue murder at anyone who questions him

 

[ymu]

You have stated that you haven't worked closely with the TSG, it is this department that seems to cause the most problems. Certainly the only time I have ever been hit by a copper was by a TSG with no numbers showing. I was hit with a shield in a wholly unprovoked attack whilst mooching along very much in the manner of Mr. Tomlinson.

The really odd thing is that I've spoken to a few coppers about TSG and they always groan, refer to them as meatheads, and describe their dismay whenever they turned up to make things worse.

But db seems entirely oblivious to this. It's quite strange.

 

[ymu]

Mind you, they were ex-coppers who left for honourable reasons. Maybe that's why.

 

[detective-boy]

Quite possibly because the TSG knew that none of these top bods would step in and tell the sergeants or inspectors to sort their men out whilst in the field.

Which, er, sort of entirely undermines the point that was being made that the reason I never saw any officers without numbers was that I was a senior officer and they would, er, worry that I would step in and tell them to sort it out ...

There's nothing like consistency in a line of argument ... and this is nothing like consistency in a line of argument ...

 

[detective-boy]

What is untrue about that? Do let me know.

The hyperbole and exaggeration. As you know perfectly well.

 

[detective-boy]

A senior officer at G20 not wearing a number....

standing next to another officer not wearing a number....

Officers above the rank of Inspector in the Met do not have shoulder numbers as has been discussed. You fail (typicaly) to note, however, that he is wearing is NAME badge.

Have you used that photograph as the basis for making a complaint about him apparently permitting an officer to fail to display his numbers?

Why not?

(Awaits usual "Cos nothing'd happen ..." shite)