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Ian Tomlinson CPS verdict: "no realistic prospect of conviction"

Its also important to remeber that this was not a one off event. The aggresive police tactics that day and on countless other demos in recent years meant it was only a matter of time before someone was killed.
The copper who killed ian tomlinson was behaving exactly as hed been instructed and enouraged to behave.
 
the state killed him. the state prevented any kind of criminal trial taking place.

it's not rocket science.

The state didn't. Parts of the criminal justice apparatus of the state have, depending on whether you attribute incompetence or malice to them, either:
1) Fucked up really badly, or
2) engineered an outcome whereby a policeman has been able to walk away unpunished after causing a death through his actions.

Either way, the criminal justice system comes out of this looking like it's just wallowed in a dungheap.
 
Actually its far from impossible that that either could have passed Tomlinson without recognizing him (as the man who had been hit by the PC earlier) - after all, they had had no dealings with Tomlinson on the first occasion and do not appear to have been amongst the officers who treated him after he collapsed.
As was noted at the time Simon Harwood immediately after attacking Ian Tomlinson went to speak to one of the FIT, this is on video.

They're not the only officers who went down Cornhill after the incident, the other FIT and the dog handlers also did, as they formed part of the moving cordon that cleared it - including all the non-police witnesses to the attack on Tomlinson.

They could have seen a man collapsed, but to say its impossible that they did not recognize him is some way far off the mark.
I didn't. I said it's impossible for them not to have seen him, so it only requires them to have been observant, not psychic.
 
If it is, make a formal complaint about them as it is plain that they would have difficulty in explaining why they did not tell anyone that the same person was involved and, if they did tell someone what that person did with the information needs to be investigated.
The information (and more) was given to the IPCC and the Tomlinson family's solicitor last April.
 
Ian Tomlinson ruling: can we trust officers to police protests fairly now?
The decision not to charge the officer who struck Ian Tomlinson casts doubt on our safety at policed demonstrations
by Marc Vallée (NUJ Photographer)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/jul/23/ian-tomlinson-police-protest

"The chilling thing is that for anyone who is thinking about protesting against the enforced transfer of billions of pounds from the public sector to the private sector due to the Con-Dem government's austerity measures will encounter the same police units, training, leadership, methodology and intelligence-lead policing. So watch your back, folks."
 
The other officer in the centre of the second photo is Steven Discombe (2558CO), who Palfrey accompanied throughout April 1st. Discombe is - in his own words - "a Public Order Field Intelligence Officer; this role gives me specific responsibility for several protest areas, one of which is Anti Capitalism. I have responsibility for the monitoring of Anti Capitalist demonstrations within the Metropolitan Police District."

To suggest that PC Discombe was either unobservant of the collapsed person at the demonstration, or unable to communicate what he had seen to more senior officers is nonsense. Again, it is impossible that he could have passed Tomlinson on Cornhill without seeing him. Both officers made statements to IPCC investigators about Tomlinson.

Discombe's a total prick. Just wanted to get that on record.
 
The Guardian has learned that Matthews refused to allow investigators from the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) to attend the first postmortem, two days after Tomlinson's death at the G20 protest in April 2009.

Furthermore, it was alleged today that the coroner did not tell the Tomlinson family of their legal right to attend or send a representative to the postmortem, nor of its time and place.

It's all completely legit and above board though isn't it d-b? Nothing at all stinking about any of that. It's all fine. Nothing to see here, move along now.
 
It's all completely legit and above board though isn't it d-b? Nothing at all stinking about any of that. It's all fine. Nothing to see here, move along now.

mistakes made. lessons learnt. time to move on.



(and make sure not to dawdle as you move on - cos dawdling in front of police officer now gives him the right to sort of accidently kill you)
 
ironically enough the PDF I linked to about deaths in police custody is titled 'learning the lesson'

and they never do.
 
No. Cops use force on someone on film. Then that someone dies a few minutes later. And it is not possible to link the two events.

That is not "killing" someone. People saw the use of force. They did not "see" that that force caused death. It's not the fucking same as seeing someone shot / stabbed / fucking run over.

That'd be for a jury to decide.

Oh.

I can't work out whether you are thick as shit. Or just blinded by prejudice. Or both.
This kind of thing isn't working DB.
 
It's an internet forum, get a grip and stop whinging like a fucking little girl ... :rolleyes:

I'm tempted to report this post for hebegynophobia.

But I wouldn't want to look the same sort of cunt as you do when you report innocuous remarks as homophobic attacks, so I'll just content myself with calling you a maladjusted sexist prick.
 
I'd like to see the statue of Nemesis sheath her sword in Keir Starmer's entrails.

Apparently, the decision was taken by Stephen O'Doherty, a Deputy Director of the CPS Special Crime Division. Who, amazingly, was also the DD who took the decision in the John Charles De Menezes case.
 
He died of internal bleeding, as the only reliable medical evidence tells us.
If you actually bothered trying to understand what the CPS report explains and what I have been trying to explain for pages, you'd know that it is NOT reliable medical evidence because it relies entirely on the observations made by the first pathologist - the ONLY pathologist who actually opened up the body and saw what was there as it was. And that is Freddy Patel (who, by the very nature of your comment, you clearly agree is unreliable).

The two pathologists who conclude that the cause of death was internal bleeding do so despite NOT being able to find any evidence of a rupture in a blood vessel, etc. which would explain such a high level of bleeding (something which Freddy Patel agrees with - he says he didn't find any evidence of any such rupture either). They reach their conclusion, therefore, on the basis of Freddy Patel's original report which stated that he found, in the abdomen, "intraabdominal fluid blood about 3l with small blood clot.". They took this as meaning there was 3 litres of blood which, if correct, would be a legitimate basis for concluding death was caused by internal bleeding (3l is a big proportion of total blood and it's loss would put you into the area where death could well result). Freddy Patel, in a second report, clarified that what he actually found was "intraabdominal fluid WITH blood about 3l with small blood clot." and he clarified in the various meetings that it was effectively blood-stained intraabdominal fluid and so the amount of blood involved was significantly less than the total volume. Because no sample was taken it is impossible to discover the actual amount of blood and it could be anything down to a few millilitres - Freddy Patel seems to be very much suggesting that it was towards the lower end - what he saw was, in his opinion, a bit of blood staining a lot of intraabdominal fluid. If it was significantly less than 3l of blood then the two pathologists who state the cause of death was internal bleeding would (particularly in the absence of any evidence of a rupture consistent with such bleeding) be forced to answer the question "If Freddy Patel is right, and there was considerably less blood than 3l present in the total volume of fluid, would that be consistent with your conclusion that the cause of death was internal bleeding?" with "No. It wouldn't."

As we simply do not know the volume of blood and have no way of finding it out, the ONLY evidence we have is what Freddy Patel say's he saw. It is not that the other two pathologists saw what he saw and disagree with it - they simply did not see it.

Put yourself on a jury with this being played out in front of you. Could you be sure beyond reasonable doubt that the cause of death was internal bleeding? If not, you'd have to acquit (assuming you were doing your job properly and according to law whereas if it actually was you you'd ignore the facts and just convict anyway because "All pigs are cunts and deserve to get done", natch ...).

THAT is the problem. Please try and understand it and if you want to discuss it further, do so from a position which demonstrates that you have actually done so.
 
"it is not possible to link the two events." - not unless you're terminally stupid or bent, like you. makes me sick seeing you trying to justify this lack of action.
I meant evidentially, in that it is not (according to the medical evidence) to link the use of force (and the resulting fall), neither of which would in and of themselves be likely to cause death directly with the death.

You can link them as in suspecting / believing they are linked in some way (which everyone has done, hence the investigation ...)
 
Do you think he would have died there without that cop having attacked him?
I don't know. I suspect not ... but that is the difficulty when there are alternative causes of death available (in this case heart disease and liver disease) ... people can die of them at any time.

What I do know is that we have a criminal justice system which says (in my opinion quite rightly) that for someone to be held criminally liable for someone's death we have to be able to demonstrate, to the point where a jury is sure beyond reasonable doubt, that the actions of the defendant caused the death - i.e. there is a chain of causation between what they did and the death.

I have dealt with dozens of cases over the years in which I have suspected that the actions of defendants have caused death, in many of them with the medical evidence issues being far less obvious than here (One particular case which springs to mind was of an elderly man, helping out in his nephew's shop when three youths started shoplifting. He stood in the door to try and stop them getting away and they ran into him, knocking him backwards out on to the pavement where he fell and hit his head, fracturing his skull. He died some days later in hospital and the PM showed that the brain damage, etc. associated with the fractured skull was not so severe that it would obviously have killed him (though it could have done) and that he had advanced heart disease which also was not such that it could be said that it did kill him (though it could have done) - result, no manslaugher charge). I have been gutted with the decisions and the families involved have been even more upset / annoyed / confused / bewildered.

But that is the law and, as I said, it is right. Otherwise you would be making people criminally liable for a tragic outcome that was absolutely nothing to do with them at all. Do you really want that (bearing in mind that it would impact on far more "workers" / unemployed / people living on benefits / other categories beloved of Urban than it would on police officers)?
 
The state didn't. Parts of the criminal justice apparatus of the state have, depending on whether you attribute incompetence or malice to them, either:
1) Fucked up really badly, or
2) engineered an outcome whereby a policeman has been able to walk away unpunished after causing a death through his actions.
As usual you are conflating the fact that there is an unpalatable outcome with the fact that someone must have fucked up ... :rolleyes:

There is a (3): Had to conclude that no matter how unpalatable / unwelcome the outcome, the evidence simply wasn't there
 
The information (and more) was given to the IPCC and the Tomlinson family's solicitor last April.
In that case they (and the media) would be well advised to concentrate on asking what became of that aspect of the investigation instead of going with the headline issue which (in relation to the manslaughter at least) they will get nowhere with.
 
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