Ian Tomlinson CPS verdict: "no realistic prospect of conviction"

[audiotech]

JUSTICE FOR IAN TOMLINSON
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http://labs.38degrees.org.uk/wall/justice-ian-tomlinson

 

[detective-boy]

The law is supposed to make sure justice happens when crimes are commited.

Justice includes the acquittal of the innocent as well as the conviction of the guilty.

It is striking how you lot consistently argue that miscarriages of justice in the normal course of events are ONLY wrongful convictions and that wrongful acquittals are not miscarriages of justice at all (whereas I argue that both are as regrettable as each other).

And yet when an allegation is made against a police officer you only ever consider a wrongful acquittal to be a miscarriage of justice and you would proactively ignore all the usual rules of law, designed to ensure that no wrongful convictions occur just to see a copper sacrificed on the alter of your hatred and prejudice (i.e. you would positively argue for a miscarriage of justice in the form of a wrongful conviction. I even suspect you'd go further and argue that if the IPCC took to fitting coppers up that would be a good thing ... (something that some senior officers in the Met's Professional Standards Department tended towards a few years ago, by the way)

What has happened, is that a criminal has got away wigth killing a man, because of stupid little arguments which have detracted away from thge crime which took place. IE a cover up. And this is a big fat smelly cover up.

No. What has happened is that someone has died, which is tragic, but by the application of the normal rules of law, no-one can be held criminally responsible for that death.

 

[Pickman's model]

Please link to how you know that ... or shut the fuck up.

i would expect people at gt to have been watching down, er, cornhill and surrounding streets: and in the most heavily cctv'd part of london - if not the world - it would be somewhat of a surprise if the dozens of cameras hadn't caught something...

and the members of the forward intelligence team present - one alan palfrey and one stephen discombe - who were ita would doubtless have mentioned the incident to those higher up in co11.

and even if that didn't occur, i'm sure that the post-event debriefing would have brought these events to light within the tsg.

isn't that what the police do, report events upwards?[/quote]

 

[Pickman's model]

I even suspect you'd go further and argue that if the IPCC took to fitting coppers up that would be a good thing ... (something that some senior officers in the Met's Professional Standards Department tended towards a few years ago, by the way)

a couple of links wouldn't go amiss

No. What has happened is that someone has died, which is tragic, but by the application of the normal rules of law, no-one can be held criminally responsible for that death.

of course not, cos cops aren't like the rest of us.

 

[detective-boy]

i would expect ...

So you're guessing then ....

isn't that what the police do, report events upwards?

But we're talking about more than simply being aware of the two parts of the incident - we're talking about realising that it was the same person involved in both. And it is by no means obvious that routine activity would have led to that connection being made, at least not in the initial few days though subsequent review of CCTV would have been expected to find it.

 

[Pickman's model]

So you're guessing then ....

quick question, do people at gt watch what's going on via cctv? y/n

 

[Pickman's model]

But we're talking about more than simply being aware of the two parts of the incident - we're talking about realising that it was the same person involved in both. And it is by no means obvious that routine activity would have led to that connection being made, at least not in the initial few days though subsequent review of CCTV would have been expected to find it.

that grinding's not teeth it's goalposts

 

[detective-boy]

everyone else can see it as plain as day.

A few internet warriors, dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy theorists, ACAB-ers and the usual rent-a-crowd suspects is not "everyone" ...

 

[Pickman's model]

A few internet warriors, dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy theorists, ACAB-ers and the usual rent-a-crowd suspects is not "everyone" ...

so it's the entire english speaking world against the met and you.

 

[detective-boy]

quick question, do people at gt watch what's going on via cctv? y/n

Yes.

 

[detective-boy]

so it's the entire english speaking world against the met and you.

Well done! You've managed to absolutely reverse the meaning of what I posted ...

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes.

and they would watch several places y/n

 

[the button]

JUSTICE FOR IAN TOMLINSON
6,815 signatures so far.

Please add your voice by signing.

http://labs.38degrees.org.uk/wall/justice-ian-tomlinson

Signed.

 

[Streathamite]

A few internet warriors, dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy theorists, ACAB-ers and the usual rent-a-crowd suspects is not "everyone" ...

sorry, but no, it's a huge amount more than that, and, i strongly suspect, Mr & Mrs Everyman by now

 

[cesare]

If that is the case then there isn't - as I have said from when I first raised this point.

And it was me that raised it - not one of the ranting fools ...

It is the case. There are a myriad of links (not just the Indy example I gave you) to witnesses' accounts. Look, here's another one: http://www.salfordonline.com/editorschoice.php?func=viewdetails&vdetails=12318

 

[xes]

A few internet warriors, dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy theorists, ACAB-ers and the usual rent-a-crowd suspects is not "everyone" ...

again, your complete and utter dettatchment from reality is ever more apparent.

 

[cesare]

d-b: If we can just skip the past the part where I carry on drip feeding links to support my allegation that there was video footage and witness accounts in the public domain before 3.4.09 ... what, in your opinion, is the best way of raising this issue of the lack of "special post-mortem" in such a way that it would be effective in bringing about a review of the CPS decision?

 

[winjer]

They can't even get the street he died on right:

"Bystanders helped Mr Tomlinson to his feet. He then left Royal Exchange [Buildings] and walked a short distance into Threadneedle Street [actually Cornhill]. He was seen by members of the public to walk up the street and then appeared to bump into a building and slowly collapsed to the floor."

Fair fills me with confidence in their abilities.

"The Crown Prosecution Service has admitted to Channel 4 News it made a mistake about the locations involved in Ian Tomlinson's death during yesterday's announcement"
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/uk/cps+admits+ian+tomlinson+report+mistakes/3721497

 

[cesare]

"The Crown Prosecution Service has admitted to Channel 4 News it made a mistake about the locations involved in Ian Tomlinson's death during yesterday's announcement"
http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/uk/cps+admits+ian+tomlinson+report+mistakes/3721497

Oh good grief. An entire year to reach a decision and they still can't get their facts straight.

 

[Jessiedog]

Oh dear.



Woof

 

[Urbanblues]

isn't that what the police do, report events upwards?

No, they rehearse events. It's all well scripted; no room for any improvisation.

 

[winjer]

There's nothing to suggest that the officers who knew of the incident when force were used knew that the same person was the one who collapsed some minutes later in a different place. They're not fucking psychic

There is. I've even told you about it before. Please stop repeating this lie.

This is PC Alan Palfrey (127EK):


Here he is again in riot gear:


Here, at 7:20pm he's just witnessed Simon Harwood's attack on Ian Tomlinson:

And here he is at 7:33pm outside 77 Cornhill, where Ian Tomlinson had collapsed minutes earlier:


There's no way he could pass along Cornhill without having seen Tomlinson on the ground or being carried away.

The other officer in the centre of the second photo is Steven Discombe (2558CO), who Palfrey accompanied throughout April 1st. Discombe is - in his own words - "a Public Order Field Intelligence Officer; this role gives me specific responsibility for several protest areas, one of which is Anti Capitalism. I have responsibility for the monitoring of Anti Capitalist demonstrations within the Metropolitan Police District."

To suggest that PC Discombe was either unobservant of the collapsed person at the demonstration, or unable to communicate what he had seen to more senior officers is nonsense. Again, it is impossible that he could have passed Tomlinson on Cornhill without seeing him. Both officers made statements to IPCC investigators about Tomlinson.

 

[agricola]

d-b: If we can just skip the past the part where I carry on drip feeding links to support my allegation that there was video footage and witness accounts in the public domain before 3.4.09 ... what, in your opinion, is the best way of raising this issue of the lack of "special post-mortem" in such a way that it would be effective in bringing about a review of the CPS decision?

Not to ignore your skip, but to return to your allegation doesnt it miss the point somewhat?

Shouldnt the question instead be why Patel didnt notice the bruising on Tomlinson (which Cary noted as covering quite a large area), and why he didnt add this to the fact (which must have been known to him) that Tomlinson had died at the same time and in the immediate vicinity of disorder between protestors and police, and flagged it up as requiring a special post-mortem anyway? One would have thought marks of recent violence on a person found near where some violence was going on would have led him to link the two.

 

[the button]

There is. I've even told you about it before. Please stop repeating this lie.

This is PC Alan Palfrey (127EK):


Here he is again in riot gear:


Here, at 7:20pm he's just witnessed Simon Harwood's attack on Ian Tomlinson:

And here he is at 7:33pm outside 77 Cornhill, where Ian Tomlinson had collapsed minutes earlier:


There's no way he could pass along Cornhill without having seen Tomlinson on the ground or being carried away.

The other officer in the centre of the second photo is Steven Discombe (2558CO), who Palfrey accompanied throughout April 1st. Discombe is - in his own words - "a Public Order Field Intelligence Officer; this role gives me specific responsibility for several protest areas, one of which is Anti Capitalism. I have responsibility for the monitoring of Anti Capitalist demonstrations within the Metropolitan Police District."

To suggest that PC Discombe was either unobservant of the collapsed person at the demonstration, or unable to communicate what he had seen to more senior officers is nonsense. Again, it is impossible that he could have passed Tomlinson on Cornhill without seeing him. Both officers made statements to IPCC investigators about Tomlinson.

Well done, sir/madam.

 

[the button]

One would have thought marks of recent violence on a person found near where some violence was going on would have led him to link the two.

One would indeed.

 

[tarannau]

This is of course relies of the dubious logic that you could expect an officer to see anything which could implicate a fellow policeman. How long would they have to get their stories logbooks in order before they were interviewed?

 

[Barking_Mad]

Er, yes, you do ... otherwise you wouldn;t know what was and was not disproportionate, unnecessary or violent ...


Only in your fevered and prejudiced imagination where you see conspiracy and corruption everywhere ...


Excellent. I won't have to waste any more time addressing arrant nonsense then.

Thanks the lord we have you to set us all straight!

No one forces you to reply to my "arrant nonsense" just as no one forces you to spit your internet dummy and resort to calling me names and insulting me. It's an internet forum, get a grip and behave like an adult.

 

[i_got_poison]

I will eat my virtual internet hat if they bring any charges agasint any copper with regards to the manslaughter of ian tomlinson.

BTW- according to the article in the guardian, the city of london police intially suggested to Ian Tomlinsons family that the copper who assualted him 'could have been a member of the public dressed up' !!! how fucking desperate is that?

it's stuff like this that makes me want to go out there and do a raoul moat (minus the gf).

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

is anyone really that surprised either by the CPS lack of abilities to discern what is blindingly obvious to anyone else or about the usual suspects cheer leading of the police on this thread?

 

[agricola]

There's no way he could pass along Cornhill without having seen Tomlinson on the ground or being carried away.

To suggest that PC Discombe was either unobservant of the collapsed person at the demonstration, or unable to communicate what he had seen to more senior officers is nonsense. Again, it is impossible that he could have passed Tomlinson on Cornhill without seeing him. Both officers made statements to IPCC investigators about Tomlinson.

Actually its far from impossible that that either could have passed Tomlinson without recognizing him (as the man who had been hit by the PC earlier) - after all, they had had no dealings with Tomlinson on the first occasion and do not appear to have been amongst the officers who treated him after he collapsed. They could have seen a man collapsed, but to say its impossible that they did not recognize him is some way far off the mark.