Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Their wiki page gives their inglorious history quite succinctly:
en.wikipedia.org
Hundreds of Post Office workers ‘vindicated’ by High Court ruling over faulty Post Office IT system
- Thread starter two sheds
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Books, not bombs
There was a letter or two shown in yesterdays enquiry from the NFSP which agreed with Bate's dismaiisal.
I cannot find the letter, but there is this
"Many postmasters remain angry in their belief they were not supported by their union, the National Federation of SubPostmasters (NFSP), which was partly funded by the Post Office.
Bates told the hearing: “The federation was absolutely useless, I believe they are just another department of the Post Office. I attended one federation meeting where a SPM started saying: ‘I’ve just had my Post Office taken off me and I’ve had problems with Horizon …’ The federation people who were there escorted him out of the back of the place.
“When my contract was terminated, I went to a federation meeting and I tried to speak, and there was one of the national executive federation members and he tried to drop me speaking. If it hadn’t been for the local chairman, Noel Thomas, moving this chap out of the way, I’ve never have been able to get over what had happened from me.”
I cannot find the letter, but there is this
"Many postmasters remain angry in their belief they were not supported by their union, the National Federation of SubPostmasters (NFSP), which was partly funded by the Post Office.
Bates told the hearing: “The federation was absolutely useless, I believe they are just another department of the Post Office. I attended one federation meeting where a SPM started saying: ‘I’ve just had my Post Office taken off me and I’ve had problems with Horizon …’ The federation people who were there escorted him out of the back of the place.
“When my contract was terminated, I went to a federation meeting and I tried to speak, and there was one of the national executive federation members and he tried to drop me speaking. If it hadn’t been for the local chairman, Noel Thomas, moving this chap out of the way, I’ve never have been able to get over what had happened from me.”
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Sub-postmistress jailed while pregnant rejects ex-Post Office boss' apology
Seema Misra was pregnant when she was wrongly jailed after being prosecuted by the Post Office.
www.bbc.com
A former sub-postmistress who was wrongly jailed while she was pregnant has rejected an apology by a former Post Office boss who congratulated the team behind her conviction.
"Brilliant news. Well done," wrote then managing director David Smith in an email to colleagues in 2010.
Seema Misra was eight weeks pregnant with her second child when she was sentenced to 15 months in prison.
Mr Smith apologised to Mrs Misra at the inquiry into the Post Office scandal.
He said that in hindsight, his email following her conviction was "poorly thought through".
But following Thursday's evidence, Mrs Misra told the BBC: "How can I accept the apology? They need to apologise to my 10 year old, they took his mum away on his birthday.
If we have a justice system, David Smith's life needs wrecking. And many others too. Will not happen as we do not have a justice system.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Just look at the cunt:
I wear glasses, I know that his are in the £1000 region, silk tie over a luxurious shirt, jacket doesn't look cheap. His life's been OK since he and his mates destroyed the lives of 1000's of people.
Asset strip the cunt after 10 years' stir.
I wear glasses, I know that his are in the £1000 region, silk tie over a luxurious shirt, jacket doesn't look cheap. His life's been OK since he and his mates destroyed the lives of 1000's of people.
Asset strip the cunt after 10 years' stir.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
before 10 years' stir
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
DURING 10 years' stir. So he can watch it happening, while being powerless to do anything about it.before 10 years' stir
Adam Crozier and Alan Cook did not come across as credible witnesses yesterday. Both of them tried to say that they had no knowledge of the prosecutions that were taking place during their tenure.in charge of Royal Mail Group and Post Office Ltd respectively. As fucking if.
These absolutes shits are all wringing their hands and coming out with mealy-mouthed insincere apologies and not accepting that they had any part in the shitshow.
These absolutes shits are all wringing their hands and coming out with mealy-mouthed insincere apologies and not accepting that they had any part in the shitshow.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Denial sounds like a risky strategy when there may be others, who facing prosecution, may have sent emails proving otherwise.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
I'm not sure him not recalling being told that it was the Post Office actually bringing the cases is all that important really. All I've felt is important is the lying about the software, followed up by perjury and ruthless pursuit of innocent sub postmasters.
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
It would become far more important if they ever get caught up in a charge of perverting the course of justice. I doubt that would happen but the fuckers still have to cover all bases.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Yes, they will get hung out to dry, while those directing the show get off scot-free.
I just hope that enough of those mid-level lawyers have managed to collect up enough dirt that they can take some of their superiors down with them.
teqniq
DisMembered
If they are not held to account by the authorities there is talk of private prosecutions:
www.theguardian.com
Post office operators may prosecute to hold officials to account, says Alan Bates
Campaigner demands clarity from Horizon IT inquiry that those responsible for wrongful convictions will face justice
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
GOOD.If they are not held to account by the authorities there is talk of private prosecutions:
Post office operators may prosecute to hold officials to account, says Alan Bates
Campaigner demands clarity from Horizon IT inquiry that those responsible for wrongful convictions will face justice
I like the cut of his jib. He started out quiet and determined. Now it seems that he's starting to step up the rhetoric, which is just what the situation demands.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Unfortunately, I don't see the Rich and Powerful People Don't Go To Prison rule being broken here. Sadly. 
And if it gets that far, with state or private prosecutions, there'll be Guinness defences aplenty. Paula Vennells might even seek sanctuary in St Paul's Cathedral.
And if it gets that far, with state or private prosecutions, there'll be Guinness defences aplenty. Paula Vennells might even seek sanctuary in St Paul's Cathedral.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Full story:
Review ordered into another Post Office IT system amid claims of more wrongful convictions
The treatment of one sub-postmaster who complained about the 1990s software was "a mirror image" of what the Post Office did with Horizon victims, an MP said. Watching the Mr Bates Vs The Post Office drama led one potential victim to spot similarities with the scandal.
news.sky.com
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Yes, it's not the most crucial thing. But I knew that the post office was able to bring prosecutions. I actually find it believable that he didn't know. But, at the same time, how did we get to a place where senior management at the post office don't really need to know basic facts about how the post office works?
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
History and complacency.
It probably worked pretty well when it was just a question of catching postmasters doing one of a probably fairly limited range of scams, and the management could safely leave the investigators to their simple trade.
Then along came a computer system - about which it is increasingly clear that nobody in the investigatory hierarchy (and beyond) had the slightest clue. So the heavies carried on with their "aha, gotcha bangter rights, yer scrote" routine, but relying on printouts from a (as it turned out, dodgy) computer system rather than iffy ledger entries.
The crime was in the failure to recognise the limitations of the old system under the new constraints. So they just carried on as they were, and when it started looking like they'd gone out on a limb, covering up like mad in ignorance of the fact it was so fucked up, Horizon was still leaving a trail (if only by default) of the mistakes they were making - mistakes they wouldn't have made in the old days, but mistakes the old days would never have shown up.
None of this is to imply any support for anyone involved. Not knowing your limitations is still being shit at your job. And that applies all the way up to the rotting head of the fish.
When you had people who had worked their way up through the grades and senior management levels then they all knew who did what and how to keep things compliant. As soon as they started parachuting senior management in from other organisations, that was when the in-depth knowledge started to get diluted and lost.
GarveyLives
Well-Known Member
A typically weak contribution from the near-invisible Chartered Governance Institute, but a helpful guide to those responsible for corporate misgovernance aspects of this affair ... and what the consequences have been for each of them to date:
The City grandees who let the Post Office fight to the bitter end
"It was announced in the New Year’s Honours List that Alwen Lyons, former Company Secretary at the Post Office, is to receive the OBE in recognition of her commitment and contribution throughout a remarkable career spanning 33 years.
Alwen has held a number of key roles during her many years with the Post Office, culminating in her becoming the inaugural Company Secretary for Post Office Limited following the separation from Royal Mail in 2012 as part of the Postal Services Act.
As Company Secretary Alwen developed new governance and legal processes that enabled the independent Post Office to fulfil its role as provider of essential services and social value through its 11600 branches which sit at the heart of communities throughout the UK ..."
(Source: Former company secretary to receive the OBE in recognition of 33 year Royal Mail career, 31 December 2017)
Times certainly seem to have changed for the Post Office's former corporate goveranance supremo based on her testimony yesterday.
Heroic work from Alex Thomson, Chief Correspondent, Channel 4 News - hopefully, he will be in similar form when Paula Vennells attends to assist the Inquiry.
WWWeed
Bandwidth Bandit
Another award that needs stripping or even better not awarding at at all. I saw a bit of her inquiry session yesterday and she seemed to suffer from the same amnesia that the other involved parties have.
FYI Paula Vennells is the focus of the inquiry this week and a live stream is at https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947
The full timetable is at Phase 5 and 6 Timetable | Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Purely objectively, I suppose that as the boss she had to go into crisis management mode on that suicide. I've had the misfortune to work on various crisis management cases for my former PR agency (I personally didn't do any of the actual work, I was only copied in now and then) and email exchanges like that are very normal between account managers and the client when the shit hits the fan. It makes for stark reading though.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
I know what you're saying but would still replace "had to" in your first sentence with "chose to"
What was most disturbing was her seeming to ask her staff if he had mental health issues and implying they should explore that
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