HS2 high-speed London-Birmingham route rail project - discussion

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Yes the Kidderminster angle. That's been whats missing from these discussions.

tbf, the reason the north hasn't had much in the way of infrastructure investment is mainly down to Kidderminster; folk conflate it with Kettering and decide, quite rightly that they don't want to be the ones to inflict DotCommunist on the rest of the nation by easing his accessibility to the transport network.

 

[kebabking]

southern cunts.

i'll have you know that Kidderminster was on Radio 4 last year - admittedly it was when there was the big power outages and all the traffic lights stopped working - but it was on Radio 4. so was Aleppo, but you take what you can get...

 

[r0bb0]

Let the Chinese in on it and cancel the 5g!

 

[teuchter]

The absence of Chinese and Japanese rail companies operating in UK rail services is an indicator that, the rail operating companies in these two countries may not be interested in a venture of finance, build and operate of rail project like HS2. However, Japanese trains are part of the modern train network in UK.

In actual fact the Japanese rail companies JR East and Matsui are jointly behind the current West Midlands franchise.

 

[AnandLeo]

In actual fact the Japanese rail companies JR East and Matsui are jointly behind the current West Midlands franchise.

Oh, I see. There you are. There is some chance of bringing my idea to fruition. I knew the Abellio is an operator. I mean the Abellio and EJ rail companies do not have to venture for whole of the HS2 project. They can take the responsibility for the mainline rail infrastructure, and leave all the rest of the link developments to other partners, and stakeholders.

 

[Winot]

Oh, I see. There you are. There is some chance of bringing my idea to fruition.

Good news.

 

[teuchter]

Oh, I see. There you are. There is some chance of bringing my idea to fruition. I knew the Abellio is an operator. I mean the Abellio and EJ rail companies do not have to venture for whole of the HS2 project. They can take the responsibility for the mainline rail infrastructure, and leave all the rest of the link developments to other partners, and stakeholders.

Yup, you've nailed it. Why didn't anyone else think of this?

 

[Cpatain Rbubish]

I’m not really up on all the nitty gritty detail of the for and against of this project but as a casual observation...

Is approx 100bn not the same as the reduction in budget deficit the country has been under ‘austerity’ for the last decade?

 

[Cpatain Rbubish]

If I’m correct can I just say...

ALL THAT MISERY FOR A FUCKING TRAIN SET?

 

[Cpatain Rbubish]

Assuming it’s running on time, it’s supposed to slash 20 odd minutes from Birmingham to London (and vice versa) basically by not stopping anywhere. What demand is really there that is so time poor to justify this solution?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Assuming it’s running on time, it’s supposed to slash 20 odd minutes from Birmingham to London (and vice versa) basically by not stopping anywhere. What demand is really there that is so time poor to justify this solution?

This is the wrong question. The question is, what demand will there be in 2040 when the fucking thing starts running.

 

[Cpatain Rbubish]

OK, OK, I’m late to the party but the government is just about to decide whether to give this project the green light, go ahead or whatever but they’ve already started on it and spent billions. I’m no project manager but something already doesn’t seen quite right, I’d have some questions for the pm (not that pm, the HS2 pm) and steering committee.

And speaking of the project governance, stages, budgets etc then I believe the UK construction behemoths have really broken new ground here by breaking ground at that same time as announcing mind boggling, eye watering, immense, go on Thomas put that in for a laugh budget overspend (overspend doesn’t seem like a big enough word for these numbers).
It’s truly remarkable to do this so early in a project and with the past record feeding frenzy of public sector project overspend this is only the beginning wow

 

[pseudonarcissus]

OK, OK, I’m late to the party

come on, it’s only 23 pages to catch up on
its going to allow a whole load of freight to go up the existing mainline, plus shorter services. Once it’s built we’re going to rewild the M6. I just wish we could go for a 7’ gauge.

 

[Teaboy]

OK, OK, I’m late to the party but the government is just about to decide whether to give this project the green light, go ahead or whatever but they’ve already started on it and spent billions. I’m no project manager but something already doesn’t seen quite right, I’d have some questions for the pm (not that pm, the HS2 pm) and steering committee.

And speaking of the project governance, stages, budgets etc then I believe the UK construction behemoths have really broken new ground here by breaking ground at that same time as announcing mind boggling, eye watering, immense, go on Thomas put that in for a laugh budget overspend (overspend doesn’t seem like a big enough word for these numbers).
It’s truly remarkable to do this so early in a project and with the past record feeding frenzy of public sector project overspend this is only the beginning wow

For somebody late to the party you have remarkably strong views on the subject.

A couple of things though. Its not really about shaving a few minutes off a London to Brum journey its about capacity and linking the North. Secondly there are many reasons why the budget is increasing at break neck speed but Cameron's decision to tunnel a lot of it to avoid his mates country estates hasn't helped. Also Cameron's decision to hold a referendum which crashed our currency is also worth noting. It was originally costed at a time when the £ was at a certain level and given most building materials are brought in from abroad...

I think we're all agreed that the Northern section should have started first but here we are. I also don't really get why Old Oak Common and Euston though, I'm sure there are very good reasons. Admittedly the way London's railway terminus appeared in a piecemeal way is shit and connecting to Euston would not make the same mistake but I just think we are where we are and connecting OOC and Euston is crazy money.

ETA: Old Oak Common is going to be a bloody great station mind.

 

[Crispy]

Change at Old Oak Common for the West Country, Heathrow and Crossrail, basically.

 

[teuchter]

I think we're all agreed that the Northern section should have started first

Are we?

Would the idea be that services on that section would then use existing lines south of birmingham, or simply that it would only service journeys within the north?

 

[Teaboy]

Are we?

You don't count.

 

[Teaboy]

Change at Old Oak Common for the West Country, Heathrow and Crossrail, basically.

Well yes I know why Old Oak Common is great but why then extend it onto Euston? I mean it'll be good but is it worth the ££££?

 

[skyscraper101]

Change at Old Oak Common for the West Country, Heathrow and Crossrail, basically.

Presumably that mean services from Paddington to Plymouth, Penzance, Bristol, Cardiff etc would routinely be stopping there?

 

[teuchter]

Well yes I know why Old Oak Common is great but why then extend it onto Euston? I mean it'll be good but is it worth the ££££?

It would dump a load of extra traffic onto Crossrail, which it hasn't been designed for.

 

[Teaboy]

Presumably that mean services from Paddington to Plymouth, Penzance, Bristol, Cardiff etc would routinely be stopping there?

Yes, that appears to be the proposal. OOC is going to be massive. There will be a station above ground for the GWR services and a 1km long concrete box in the ground for HS2 and Crossrail.

 

[alex_]

It would dump a load of extra traffic onto Crossrail, which it hasn't been designed for.

euston has loads of tube lines

old oak common will just mean that all of old oak commons links will become overloaded at peak time

 

[skyscraper101]

Yes, that appears to be the proposal. OOC is going to be massive. There will be a station above ground for the GWR services and a 1km long concrete box in the ground for HS2 and Crossrail.

So would that mean HS2 is actually going to delay services to the West out of Paddington by creating another stopping point?

 

[alex_]

So would that mean HS2 is actually going to delay services to the West out of Paddington by creating another stopping point?

presumably not all of them.

 

[Teaboy]

So would that mean HS2 is actually going to delay services to the West out of Paddington by creating another stopping point?

That's one way to look at it. Another is to say it will increase connectivity meaning everyone to the West of Paddington won't have to trek into Zone 1* and it will give an alternative route for people north of London instead of just the Cross Country services.

* As fun as it is to get a train from Ealing to Paddington and then back through Ealing again just to head West.

 

[Crispy]

presumably not all of them.

nope, all of them. OOC will have 8 GWR plaforms, 4 on the fast and 4 on the slow lines (including crossrail services) and 6 HS2 platforms.

 

[skyscraper101]

That's one way to look at it. Another is to say it will increase connectivity meaning everyone to the West of Paddington won't have to trek into Zone 1* and it will give an alternative route for people north of London instead of just the Cross Country services.

* As fun as it is to get a train from Ealing to Paddington and then back through Ealing again just to head West.

Presumably that's how it'll be spun.

 

[Teaboy]

Presumably that's how it'll be spun.

I don't think they'll need to spin vastly increased connectivity in exchange for a few minutes on the journey. Its the 'crikey, that's a lot of money, I thought the country was bankrupt' angle that'll need the spin treatment.

Anyway, it's currently a pain in the arse for me to get to Paddington and my company has been working on OOC project since 2012 so my impartial view is that OOC should be built and it'll be great.

 

[skyscraper101]

I don't think they'll need to spin vastly increased connectivity in exchange for a few minutes on the journey. Its the 'crikey, that's a lot of money, I thought the country was bankrupt' angle that'll need the spin treatment.

Anyway, it's currently a pain in the arse for me to get to Paddington and my company has been working on OOC project since 2012 so my impartial view is that OOC should be built and it'll be great.

I meant when all the complaints start flowing in, from passengers on already overcrowded trains out of Paddington when they are further piled in on from northerners going to the Westcountry via OOC, and existing commuters are complaining their journey times are taking longer than before.

I appreciate if you're one of the beneficiaries of OOC then it's huge convenience over schleping from Euston to Paddington or getting the cross country, and for many West Londoners too, not having to go to zone 1 - I for one already take a slower SWR train from Barnes to Reading to change to GWR going West because it takes about the same time as it would take to get into Paddington on the tube, just just to get a faster train train West (cheaper too).

 

[Teaboy]

I meant when all the complaints start flowing in, from passengers on already overcrowded trains out of Paddington when they are further piled in on from northerners going to the Westcountry via OOC, and existing commuters are complaining their journey times are taking longer than before.

Its OK all the Reading passengers will be on Crossrail so we can just miss Reading out.

I appreciate if you're one of the beneficiaries of OOC then it's huge convenience over schleping from Euston to Paddington or getting the cross country, and for many West Londoners too, not having to go to zone 1 - I for one already take a slower SWR train from Barnes to Reading to change to GWR going West because it takes about the same time as it would take to get into Paddington on the tube, just just to get a faster train train West (cheaper too).

What a train journey that is. What's your favourite station where no one gets on and no one gets off? Martins Heron? Winnersh Triangle (at the weekend)? Early is a good one because its fucking walking distance from Reading Station. Now we have Longcross as well...

Mind you it is a pretty journey and there's always the 4 can challenge which used to be easier when I lived in Richmond but its a struggle from Twickenham. Maybe I'm getting old.