How was your cycle commute?
- Thread starter ChrisFilter
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Sigmund Fraud
893 all the way.
Rapha hockey socks = twat.
ChrisFilter
Like a boss.
Road bike, a litre of water and a rucksack full of the day's clothes.
It's country lanes until Gates Green Rd in West Wickham and even after that it's fairly fast moving until Brixton. Then it gets pretty unpleasant. I forgot how annoying other cyclists can be. My tutting goes into overdrive.
ChrisFilter
Like a boss.
I saw a full Rapha couple yesterday. Covered in logos.
This is what I hate about Rapha. I quite admired their approach when their range was all tasteful and pretty much unbranded but now there's loads of garish crap with logos all over it for poseurs. Completely undermines the original ethos and highlights it for what it always was - marketing wank.
And I say that as a marketing wanker.
Sigmund Fraud
893 all the way.
Probably one for the chat thread but I caught up with a friend who works in the rag trade and knows the cycling market very well. Most Rapha kit is made by Nailini in China - nothing wrong with either of these things as both can mean quality...the idea however that Rapha are an Assos challenger for the super premium clothing market is dogshit though.
han
love is the answer
I just ordered this! I am very excited
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FRSBVSC...nd-carbon-road-frame-(46cm,-cream-and-silver)
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/FRSBVSC...nd-carbon-road-frame-(46cm,-cream-and-silver)
han
love is the answer
I've decided not to try and combine all the different bikes I want into one bike. So I'm going to focus on what I feel I desire the most - a lightweight geared roadbike, with puncture resistant tyres, and upright handlebars (I'm odd like that - never liked drops). I could just buy something off the shelf, but it'll work out more expensive, and I really fancy a project.
Obviously I'd love to add a proper mountain bike and tourer to my collection, but that's for way into the future. A bike for each purpose, rather than one swiss army knife bike.
So anyway I've started with the above frame, and am going to build it myself. It's a project. I did this (sort of) with my singlespeed - bought all the bits, then got Brixton Cycles to put it together. But this time I want to do it myself and learn something. I wouldn't even consider it without the help of a friend of mine who's an excellent bike mechanic and has all the tools, and has offered to help - lucky me!
Obviously I'd love to add a proper mountain bike and tourer to my collection, but that's for way into the future. A bike for each purpose, rather than one swiss army knife bike.
So anyway I've started with the above frame, and am going to build it myself. It's a project. I did this (sort of) with my singlespeed - bought all the bits, then got Brixton Cycles to put it together. But this time I want to do it myself and learn something. I wouldn't even consider it without the help of a friend of mine who's an excellent bike mechanic and has all the tools, and has offered to help - lucky me!
Ted Striker
Foot's on the other hand
Ted Striker
Foot's on the other hand
It's not garish crap, though I can't quite get over the wtf baffled-ness of the recent ranges.
They have a serious problem, in that so many just wanted non-descript/neat good quality (if not the best) cycling gear. Now most people have snapped up what they need (though I now begrudge the white armband and have most of what I need in black-on-black) and they got a bit of mileage out of the autumnal/'guest' colourways, but even those are not as desirable as the black (and white). The trade wooly things were a massive faliure (ffs - copies of the Peugeot/Molteni/Can't remember with fake similar logos?! Straight to the 60% bin...And they've done it all over again with the more trade 'homage' crap things!)
I haven't seen anything new I've wanted in ages. Some Pro Team bits look pretty functionally good, though they are logo heavy, and I'm covered for pretty much any eventuality/requirement with stuff I've acquired over the years..
Not sure quite why that's a bad thing? Someone's got to make them, and I assume they aren't the same as the regular Nalini stuff. I've said it before - it's not realistic for them to be the best at everything, though you're guaranteed a top 'x' of any given garment. And if you want matchy stuff...
Sigmund Fraud
893 all the way.
Nalinis 'team' range - their highest level of kit is all european made - in fact very little cycling gear is made outside the EU. But it appears many are using Chinese manufacturing to make the pad / coolmax bit of short for example then ship this in and stitch it together inside the EU; Rapha are going one step further and using bought in nalini pads and getting the rest of the shorts made in China too.
Then charging a massive premium.
And then theres the issue of Raphas contempt for UK manufacturing....
Rapha makes probably the most expensive cycling gear in the planet, and i know a lot of people who thinks they are "made in London" or "UK"...
A friend of mine wrote to them to find out why their clothes costs so much, since well, they are made miles away from UK - just like Nike, Puma, Adidas or Reebok.
*Hello,
I am an avid cyclist and a custom of yours, I purchased the tricolor
jersey and the merino classic jersey a while back. I was surprised
after washing my garment for the first time, to see a tag of which
materials were used, and the production land. I was amazed that it
said Made in China, I paid top money to purchase your items as I
understood they were hand made in the UK. I am also a bit puzzled
about the price, how can a jersey be worth 120 UK pounds, when the
labor cost in China is about 1 percent of that. Is the mark up just a
marketing scheme. I am sorry to say that I will not be shopping from
you guys again.
Kind regards,
Raffaele G.*
Reply from Rapha:
***- Forwarded message ----------
From: Simon Mottram simon@rapha.cc
Date: 17-Jun-2007 23:43
Subject: Re: Great products but...
To: Raffaele G.
Cc: Enquiries enquiries@rapha.cc
Hello Raffaele
Thanks for getting in touch and for buying our products.
We manufacture some garments in China because the quality the factories
offer there is first rate and they are very reliable producers. The cost
price advantage is a secondary issue.
If you've ever tried to have products made in the UK, you'd apreciate how
hard it is to get craftsmanship and reliable delivery. I wish it was
otherwise.
Our high prices come from the expensive fabrics and trims we use, not from a
'marketing scheme'. We have yet to make a profit (but are working hard at
changing that).
Thanks again for getting in touch. If you have a problem with Chinese
manufacture I don't suppose I will have changed your mind. But I hope I have
clarified why and how we use factories there.
Kind regards
Simon
Simon Mottram
Managing Director
R A P H A
Performance Roadwear
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
rapha.cc/
simon@rapha.cc
Office: +44 (0) 20 7485 5000
Mobile: +44 (0) 7979 597 807
Rapha Racing Ltd.
Imperial Works
Perren Street
London
NW5 3ED
from here:-
Its this bit that grips my shit:-
If you've ever tried to have products made in the UK, you'd apreciate how
hard it is to get craftsmanship and reliable delivery. I wish it was
otherwise.
So Rapha seem to be failing where Brooks, Hope, Endura, Lusso, Brompton and a shedload of small players are making hay utilising British factories and logistics. Are shorts really that hard to make?
Ted Striker
Foot's on the other hand
Ha, I was going to say "they've gone down the Brooks line" - Brooks do their thing overseas too IIRC. They have a mildly humourous "answer any complaint" bit on their website that argues pretty much as Rapha does.
I'm in two minds. I can't really imagine there's many manufacturers in the UK that can do what Rapha need (before you appreciate price point/power). I'm not particularly fussed nor bias for or against tbh - I wouldn't even have considered anything is made in the UK/EU. I couldn't give a shit either way tbh (esp for cycling gear) - I want anything made by the place with the bigger population of skilled craftsman. Can't imagine that's anywhere other than the Far East or Turkey. I appreciate the guys views, though it just sounds like someone who knows nothing about clothing manufacturing. Fair play you may find one guy that may be able to do your shorts in a good enough way in the UK...or you go to a market of super experienced manufacturers with whopping competition and a whole market to rely on. Plus if you applied his sensitivities to foreign labour to our service industry, you'd sound an awful lot like Nigel Farage (concerns about foreign slavey labour aside).
The cost in Rapha is indeed in the marketing/exclusivity and in the whopping overheads they have in running a ridiculously fat (inefficient!) business.
If you don't like it, don't play their game, and feel free to (justifiably) take the piss - not sure what they aim to achieve by dryly whinging at the CEO tbh.
I'm in two minds. I can't really imagine there's many manufacturers in the UK that can do what Rapha need (before you appreciate price point/power). I'm not particularly fussed nor bias for or against tbh - I wouldn't even have considered anything is made in the UK/EU. I couldn't give a shit either way tbh (esp for cycling gear) - I want anything made by the place with the bigger population of skilled craftsman. Can't imagine that's anywhere other than the Far East or Turkey. I appreciate the guys views, though it just sounds like someone who knows nothing about clothing manufacturing. Fair play you may find one guy that may be able to do your shorts in a good enough way in the UK...or you go to a market of super experienced manufacturers with whopping competition and a whole market to rely on. Plus if you applied his sensitivities to foreign labour to our service industry, you'd sound an awful lot like Nigel Farage (concerns about foreign slavey labour aside).
The cost in Rapha is indeed in the marketing/exclusivity and in the whopping overheads they have in running a ridiculously fat (inefficient!) business.
If you don't like it, don't play their game, and feel free to (justifiably) take the piss - not sure what they aim to achieve by dryly whinging at the CEO tbh.
DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
It's not really making 'a' pair of shorts that's the issue; it's making thousands of them with relentless consistency on time.
ChrisFilter
Like a boss.
The stuff emblazoned with logos is. It's like when Hackett did those big logo tops and put off anyone who wore the proper stuff.
If I was one of Rapha's original fans, in it for the perceived quality, exclusivity and what it said about me, I'd be thoroughly put off by it and would jump straight to Café du Cyclistes, Col, Vulpine, etc, etc.
I think I still dislike Castelli more though. Even more logos. Cycling round stockbroker belt is like flying around in some weird day-glo scorpion cult.
Ted Striker
Foot's on the other hand
Probably - tbh sad as it sounds, I think the Rapha-ness of their garments shouts (to me) as much as their logos
. I agree anywhere the name can be seen is a fail, though they lost the 'discrete/ITK' battle long before they put their logos on stuff iyswim. I quite like Castelli - it's not particularly garish, though consistent in design, and can get a full kit matchy matchy 
with ease. The Convertible Gabba is probably the only non-Rapha thing I wish Rapha did a version of.Agree with Hackett crap - I'm as big a wearer/follower of them as I am Rapha - but a fair few fashion brands want's to follow Ralph Lauren with a 'street' range to trade on their luxe heritage.
Cycling gear does get a bit of a pass though - garish logos (and garish wtf designs) have heritage if they mean something. Ignoring the FKW aspect, going out in a pink Mecatano Uno jersey and a 90's Alu yellow/green Bianchi would be a little bit
. If you think that any pink jersey with Italian supermarket logos or 'my eyes' colourscheme Alu bike is acceptable then, well, it isn't.
Sigmund Fraud
893 all the way.
I'd wager Endura make as many if not more cycling shorts in Britain and remain in business. The mass scale / logistics argument is tosh, I worked for a UK manufacturing business or 9 years, ,supply chain issues with far eastern suppliers are no better than those inside the UK.
Sigmund Fraud
893 all the way.
Do you know any more about clothing manufacturing than he does?
Ted Striker
Foot's on the other hand
God, not at all - maybe an appreciation of economics and a lazy/blind understanding that "there's a reason why Rapha go to China" (and at least appear to question their reticence to source in the UK)...But certainly not trying to come across as a know-it-all
- I might have overstepped the mark with my armchair-sportswear manufacturer missives!Either way, Rapha want to get a premium product, with the highest, consistent quality, to market, for the cheapest, most reliable, price.
Either you question that requirement (maybe price isn't everything - but it can't possibly be any more expensive to be a worthwhile venture!); or how they go about it (what do you know that Rapha (and most other cycling manufacturers) don't?)
Sigmund Fraud
893 all the way.
The point is its not a premium product. The perception is created that its premium but it isn't.
Almost got completely cleaned out tonight coming back from Kentish Town at the junction of the New North Road and Essex Road, which is often a very tight area for cyclists as the road suddenly goes from one wide lane with parking to no parking and a very, very close two lane setup at the junction.
But the structure of the junction is only really a side-point, the person in question buzzed me by what must have been a few seconds while he was overtaking on a scooter at high speed with only his right hand on the bars and the other holding a phone which he seemed to be texting from.
The way he wildly swerved to avoid me suggests that he wasn't looking up until the last minute to take the evasive maneouvre and then I watched him continue on for the next 10-20 seconds down the road until he turned off on to a side street.
He was probably looking down at his phone rather than ahead at the road for at least half of that period of time that I watched him ahead of me and at no point had both hands on the handlebars. He also had an L plate on his scooter.
There seem to be an increasing number of these super aggressive, ridiculously risky scooter drivers around my area these days. Maybe they are so good that they will never crash or clean someone on a bike out but I'd bet it's only a matter of time until that happens...
Do you have do even do anything to get an L plate on your scooter or can you just whack it on and get going?
But the structure of the junction is only really a side-point, the person in question buzzed me by what must have been a few seconds while he was overtaking on a scooter at high speed with only his right hand on the bars and the other holding a phone which he seemed to be texting from.
The way he wildly swerved to avoid me suggests that he wasn't looking up until the last minute to take the evasive maneouvre and then I watched him continue on for the next 10-20 seconds down the road until he turned off on to a side street.
He was probably looking down at his phone rather than ahead at the road for at least half of that period of time that I watched him ahead of me and at no point had both hands on the handlebars. He also had an L plate on his scooter.
There seem to be an increasing number of these super aggressive, ridiculously risky scooter drivers around my area these days. Maybe they are so good that they will never crash or clean someone on a bike out but I'd bet it's only a matter of time until that happens...
Do you have do even do anything to get an L plate on your scooter or can you just whack it on and get going?
joustmaster
offcumdun
He was probably looking at google maps..
Young people have to do a CBT test to drive a scooter. Then they can drive it with an L plate.
Older people can just drive a small one without doing any test.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Waddaya recon to this guys cycle commute?
'Wheely' brave cyclist performs dangerous cliff edge stunt for TV show
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/t...s-dangerous-cliff-edge-stunt-for-TV-show.html
'Wheely' brave cyclist performs dangerous cliff edge stunt for TV show
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/t...s-dangerous-cliff-edge-stunt-for-TV-show.html
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
It winds me up how over priced cycling clothes are, take a bog standard jersey, give it retro styling and a few pockets on the back and flog it for 60 or 70+ quid, or sweatshirts for 100+ quid.
iamwithnail
Well-Known Member
Any recommednations on pannier bags? I had one I got last year (just about this time actually), but it's completely fucked, was £70 as well, really annoyed. Has to be waterproof, obviously.
